EK in hot water again?

obs said:
All of which require minimum purchase amounts to make then profitable.
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Steve's video mentioned this. I kind of wonder why they didn't buy a bunch of CNC machines and laser cutters. You'd think they could build a lot of their own parts JIT that way. I'll grant I have no idea how many they'd need, but you'd think it'd relax the 3rd-party MOQ dependencies.
 
obs said:
That's their main issue. So much time and money spent making a huge number of SKUs. All of which require minimum purchase amounts to make then profitable. And when they don't sell they are left holding tons of inventory. Its a terrible business model which is ultimately at the root of all their troubles.
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To add to and expand upon the above. They release far to many overpriced, one off products for a company tied into minimum quantity contracts. Looking at their most recent consumer releases as quick examples. Both being direct die blocks for socket 1700 and AM5 x3d ($450+ with required parts). Granted these were limited runs of 150 parts each. Point being, they are blocks that few to no consumers wanted or will be buying. The average consumer CPU/GPU blocks are their bread and butter. It's all of the overpriced single use SKUs like mono blocks etc that make terrible business sense. That combined with the fact that the competition caught up to them in both price and performance long ago, yet they haven't adjusted in any way shape or form speaks volumes about the clowns running the show.

My friends and I have been wcing for 20+ years and for many of those years we all swore by EK products until the quality issues crept up. Then their price creep started and steadily grew worse. And once Alphacool, Heatkiller, Byski, Barrow and the rest of the boutique competition caught and then crushed them price to performance, we all stopped using EK gear (more than 10 years ago) and haven't picked them back up since. EK is simply out of touch with their consumers. If that's any reflection of how they have been running the far more lucrative business/industrial side...they are screwed.
 
vegeta535 said:
Nah. I had 3 D5 pumps die on me over 10 years of cooling. They were EK pumps too.
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Yup. D5s die just like any pump. Maybe some brands are more reputable..idk. They all look the same.

On top of being what...$80+ for basic D5s on Amazon and that's without heads/mounting.....

$100+ for a rad. $15+ a pop for fans. God knows what for fittings/tubing. $100+ for a block..... Or, you just buy an AIO that will do 90% of the cooling since cpus don't really have any OC headroom at all.
 
EK continues to masquerade as some high end (with high prices) watercooling company and people keep gobbling it up. Meanwhile they have some of the worst quality control and general quality I've seen whether it's their plating, quality of materials, screw torque, etc. I've yet to have a single EK product in my use that hasn't had (insert the following): missing mounting hardware, flaking off plating, plastic pump mounts that snap off, etc.

Honestly they deserve to go under imo. The employees who haven't been paid their dues do not deserve that however, if true. Hope they get made whole at least.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
Brands like EK suffer triple when global money dries up. Let's be honest, their product is prestige nonsense that has a pretty damned small market, especially with air cooling being so damned good now. I'm long done with water cooling and I was doing it 30 years ago with Tupperware, fish tank parts, and heater cores.

If I was a company like Corsair, I would buy the desiccated corpse after it withers for a while.. or they get desperate enough...
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But why would Corsair buy them??
They have their own liquid cooling brand and product lineup. There is nothing EK offers that they don’t already do, or couldn’t do on their own.
 
vegeta535 said:
Nah. I had 3 D5 pumps die on me over 10 years of cooling. They were EK pumps too.
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Always use Laing OEM parts and pure distilled water. 100s of k hours.
But run dry and the bearing is toast.

If you need higher flow and head use Iwaki RD30. They deliver the goods.
 
Tsumi said:
Kinda amusing how EK's version of damage control is to delete threads on their subreddit that talk about GN's video. Certainly not a good look when they're trying to shut down the discussion rather than respond to it. Definitely lends merit to the theory that EK is trying to silence anyone that speaks out about it.
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Which ironically just leads to more discussion. It’s a great way to keep drama alive.
 
cpufrost said:
This.
D5 pumps will last well past any Asetek junk.
As long as you *never* let them run dry. Even cavitate.
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My D5 lasted about 8 months before the impeller blew and the unit threw up all over the inside of my case.

I suspect the Cryofuel mix sold by EK corroded the plastic parts.
 
cpufrost said:
Always use Laing OEM parts and pure distilled water. 100s of k hours.
But run dry and the bearing is toast.

If you need higher flow and head use Iwaki RD30. They deliver the goods.
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I am done with custom WC with my current build. I don't see the value. 2 of 3 pumps were ran with just distilled water and biocide. I didn't even run the pump at 100%. Pump never ran dry either. I had a corsair D5 that ran for a couple years with no problem before I dismantle the loop.
 
Lakados said:
My D5 lasted about 8 months before the impeller blew and the unit threw up all over the inside of my case.

I suspect the Cryofuel mix sold by EK corroded the plastic parts.
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Yep, that's your answer right there. Purest water (ideally 18meg+ RODI) measuring 00000TDS is best.
Keep it dark as possible (completely opaque hoses and reservoirs), NO boutique reservoirs (waterfalls, lighting, et al).
Pure silver kill coil OK.

Also it is a very good idea to assemble everything (off the hardware) and flush with said pure water with a water polishing filter to catch as much FOD as possible. Radiators are full of nasties. The fins on the waterblock are a great filter and will catch them but obviously that is not what you want! ;-)

When I was building lots of systems I had a dedicated flush rig with high pressure/flow and was shocked at the crap that was coming out of rads. Even the higher end ones. Some of the cheapest ones were full of junk. Also it's not a bad idea to have a mesh based strainer at the suction inlet of the pump.
 
Lakados said:
But why would Corsair buy them??
They have their own liquid cooling brand and product lineup. There is nothing EK offers that they don’t already do, or couldn’t do on their own.
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I thought EK was involved with Corsair's design initially? You're right though, EK disappearing just leaves a hole that Corsair is already perfectly capable of filling without spending any money on pointless M&A.

I just think water cooling is a pointless risk in the desktop space, that's probably because I'm old and I don't savour the build like I used to.
 
cpufrost said:
Yep, that's your answer right there. Purest water (ideally 18meg+ RODI) measuring 00000TDS is best.
Keep it dark as possible (completely opaque hoses and reservoirs), NO boutique reservoirs (waterfalls, lighting, et al).
Pure silver kill coil OK.

Also it is a very good idea to assemble everything (off the hardware) and flush with said pure water with a water polishing filter to catch as much FOD as possible. Radiators are full of nasties. The fins on the waterblock are a great filter and will catch them but obviously that is not what you want! ;-)

When I was building lots of systems I had a dedicated flush rig with high pressure/flow and was shocked at the crap that was coming out of rads. Even the higher end ones. Some of the cheapest ones were full of junk. Also it's not a bad idea to have a mesh based strainer at the suction inlet of the pump.
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I did all that, but then EK was pushing the cryofuel as a way to improve temps and lengthen the lifespan of parts as it had some anti-growth agents and lubricants to keep things happy, and that it would prevent corrosion and blah blah blah. So I got it.... Then the whole thing shit the bed.
 
Looks like they ran it into the ground for sure. I’ve done a couple of custom loops and it’s a lot of fun but pretty much an indulgence at this point. Every time I think about another go I just price it out and then realize I could buy a 7800x3d , mobo and $30 air cooler for not a lot more money…
 
Twisted Kidney said:
I thought EK was involved with Corsair's design initially?
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Correct.

Corsair is going the route of rebranding a lot of stuff - i.e. slapping a sailboat logo on and marking it up on their radiators which are just Hardware Labs L-series.

Corsair's fittings OEM is Bitspower, which actually does work out because sometimes they are cheaper than actual Bitspower.

Corsair's premix XL5 was Mayhems X1, but then they stopped using that for something they are getting from Taiwan with XL8.

But I think they are getting some ideas from EK, because Corsair's reservoir unit is some of the cheapest looking plastic I've seen for something that costs that much. Materially, it's just inferior for what you can get from the likes of Aquacomputer or Bitspower, or Heatkiller (Watercool) for similar or less cost.

As for their blocks, Corsair's CPU blocks are middle of the road. As for their GPU blocks, not the best performers either, but are otherwise "ok". I'm not a fan of the aesthetic, but to each their own.

I do like their white PMMA tubing though.
 
NightReaver said:
Yup. D5s die just like any pump. Maybe some brands are more reputable..idk. They all look the same.

On top of being what...$80+ for basic D5s on Amazon and that's without heads/mounting.....

$100+ for a rad. $15+ a pop for fans. God knows what for fittings/tubing. $100+ for a block..... Or, you just buy an AIO that will do 90% of the cooling since cpus don't really have any OC headroom at all.
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If you're taking the stand that "AIO will do 90%", why bother with the AIO at all? A Peerless Assassin / Phantom Spirit will do 85% and be more reliable than cheap AIOs.
 
Lakados said:
I did all that, but then EK was pushing the cryofuel as a way to improve temps and lengthen the lifespan of parts as it had some anti-growth agents and lubricants to keep things happy, and that it would prevent corrosion and blah blah blah. So I got it.... Then the whole thing shit the bed.
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Just like oil additives (eg. Slick50) they are both un-necessary and will introduce problems of their own. KISS applies here with liquid cooling.
 
The owner probably invested their assets in doge coin and they are playing a shell game of using money from one vendor to pay another. Bad business.
 
NightReaver said:
Meh, the extra $20 is worth it if someone just wants liquid. The extra hundreds upon hundreds for custom loops? Nah.
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Yeah the performance gained per dollar spent really isn't there for custom loop anymore. But there certainly are other reasons. Some like puting together custom loops like any other hobby where the money spent is probably not returned in any other way than enjoyment of doing it, and done properly, I'm sorry they will still always be quieter than air cooling. I HATE fans ramping up.
 
Sir Beregond said:
Yeah the performance gained per dollar spent really isn't there for custom loop anymore. But there certainly are other reasons. Some like puting together custom loops like any other hobby where the money spent is probably not returned in any other way than enjoyment of doing it, and done properly, I'm sorry they will still always be quieter than air cooling. I HATE fans ramping up.
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Yeah that was covered in my original post :D I still do custom loops, but strictly because I enjoy the hobby. I don't pay EK-esque prices though, all Bykski/ other Ali stuff.
 
cpufrost said:
Just like oil additives (eg. Slick50) they are both un-necessary and will introduce problems of their own. KISS applies here with liquid cooling.
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I learned too late, I flushed it, cleaned the plastic and metal fragments out the best I could, sold it all, went with a series of AiOs, and likely won't go back.
 
Swiftech is still kicking regardless of not hearing their name anywhere in the last 10 years. i used their stuff when i did my custom loop. they have some good coolant too, i broke the whole thing down after 4 or 5 years and replaced the hoses and coolant and there was zero buildup in the block or anywhere else. so maybe somebody looking to get into watercooling will give them a look.

edit: actually looking through their site it looks like it's mostly out of stock. i guess the overpriced (and over advertised) stuff from EK, corsair, probably just AIO's in general about put them out of business
 
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I've run some pretty questionable blocks and stuff in my time and honestly, they all do it pretty well. If its going to break or leak its going break or leak regardless of the manufactuer.
 
d3athf1sh said:
Swiftech is still kicking regardless of not hearing their name anywhere in the last 10 years. i used their stuff when i did my custom loop. they have some good coolant too, i broke the whole thing down after 4 or 5 years and replaced the hoses and coolant and there was zero buildup in the block or anywhere else. so maybe somebody looking to get into watercooling will give them a look.

edit: actually looking through their site it looks like it's mostly out of stock. i guess the overpriced (and over advertised) stuff from EK, corsair, probably just AIO's in general about put them out of business
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I still have Swiftch Lok-Seal fittings in active use that I bought around a dozen years ago and their custom variant of the DDC pump lasted me till 2022.

Turning to the main point...

When I bought my first, and for a long time only, piece of EK gear a 400mm tall cylindrical reservoir, my experience was moderate pricing for a little below mediocre quality. Having a mis-drilled G1/4 port that needed to be sealed with an over-sized brass slug from home depot wrapped in plumber's tape is what lowered my estimate from mid-tier quality to below that.

My next piece of EK gear came in the form of the pre-applied water block to my XFX 6900XT. It had, at best, middling performance compared to a lot of other blocks that if purchased separately would have been a lot cheaper. Worse, the EK gpu block was not fully user serviceable without defacing it and also having a real risk of damage to the important parts. By that point, my opinion of EK had sunk to absolute top of the market pricing or beyond for mid-tier to sub-par quality. Just look at the new Ryzen direct die system which presents as a worse version of Thermal Grizzly's own product for roughly twice the price.

When EK finishes collapsing I sure won't miss it.
 
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cpufrost said:
Yep, that's your answer right there. Purest water (ideally 18meg+ RODI) measuring 00000TDS is best.
Keep it dark as possible (completely opaque hoses and reservoirs), NO boutique reservoirs (waterfalls, lighting, et al).
Pure silver kill coil OK.

Also it is a very good idea to assemble everything (off the hardware) and flush with said pure water with a water polishing filter to catch as much FOD as possible. Radiators are full of nasties. The fins on the waterblock are a great filter and will catch them but obviously that is not what you want! ;-)

When I was building lots of systems I had a dedicated flush rig with high pressure/flow and was shocked at the crap that was coming out of rads. Even the higher end ones. Some of the cheapest ones were full of junk. Also it's not a bad idea to have a mesh based strainer at the suction inlet of the pump.
Click to expand...

So best to run pure distilled water, and only a silver kill coil optionally?
Guess I've been wasting money for years tossing in additives
 
zerogg said:
So best to run pure distilled water, and only a silver kill coil optionally?
Guess I've been wasting money for years tossing in additives
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AFAIK just like mixing aluminum and copper water cooling parts are a bad idea because of galvanic corrosion, so is silver. That is why antigrowth chemicals became a thing so that we could get rid off a yet another metal part in the system that can react badly with copper parts.
 
zerogg said:
So best to run pure distilled water, and only a silver kill coil optionally?
Guess I've been wasting money for years tossing in additives
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Yes. Ideally you want the dissolved oxygen to be close to zero too.
It's hard to get things near perfect in a home environment. Additives, in theory can help but without monitoring cycles of concentration, flow control and delta across devices that have backpressure it's hard to tell. Biological fouling is a real issue with contamination. Using your mouth to blow through a loop is never a good idea! ;-) Pure water is going to have little ions and will be slightly acidic. Mixing of metals will cause currents to flow resulting in galvanic corrosion. This is why its important to build a system that can be drained, flushed and refilled easily. More often than not focus is made on appearance rather than long term stability. A good design can allow hardcore o/c to shoot for the moon and be an everyday driver. But like top fuel drag racing, it's not cheap.
 
zerogg said:
So best to run pure distilled water, and only a silver kill coil optionally?
Guess I've been wasting money for years tossing in additives
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People sure leave out details when they say "use a silver kill coil". Silver should not be used in any loops containing nickel plated blocks, but yes would work absolutely fine if just bare copper blocks.

No I wouldn't say money has been wasted for additives. A bottle of Inhibitor+ and Hades+ last forever since you only need about 4 drops each per gallon and then periodically top up the reservoir with 1 drop each.
 
German Muscle said:
classic EK damage control. Blaming it on previous CEO. All the problems coming to light existed back before when Eddie was CEO.
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Lakados said:
But why would Corsair buy them??
They have their own liquid cooling brand and product lineup. There is nothing EK offers that they don’t already do, or couldn’t do on their own.
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Corsair could probably snag some of their engineers. Corsair's blocks aren't as good as the EK's are. EK's problems have never been about design, but rather QC and their prices are excessively high compared to most other options.

That said, I have a lot of EK stuff and I've never had problems with anything I've bought from them. I should note that I have never been sampled anything from them at any point.
 
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