The Apple Vision Pro goes on sale in the US on February 2 for $3,499

I have a hard time believing that we need 10-20 years. A 4090 for each eye should be plenty of processing power - I think the mistake at the moment is trying to haul the whole PC around with you.
We're talking about very different things. If you want VR as it exists today, then as you say, you more or less already have what you want.
That's not what Apple Vision Pro is about, nor is it what Apple is ultimately interested in doing.
 
We're talking about very different things. If you want VR as it exists today, then as you say, you more or less already have what you want.
That's not what Apple Vision Pro is about, nor is it what Apple is ultimately interested in doing.
I read through the linked article in post one. It mentions apps like Apple TV, Apple Arcade, Zoom calls - all things that are very stationary, or contained within a single room. All the same tech for those use cases would likely be best served NOT in the headset to lighten it up and increase battery life - let a much more powerful desktop wirelessly handle the processing and just stream to the lenses.
 
I read through the linked article in post one. It mentions apps like Apple TV, Apple Arcade, Zoom calls - all things that are very stationary, or contained within a single room. All the same tech for those use cases would likely be best served NOT in the headset to lighten it up and increase battery life - let a much more powerful desktop wirelessly handle the processing and just stream to the lenses.
Sure they're going to have all the niceties of VR and VR headsets, such as watching Netflix and merge all of their platforms. That's an Apple thing to do. But if that's what you think is their end game goal is: a "new way" to watch movie content or play Apple Arcade, then you're grossly missing the point. Instead of spending $3500-$4000 on a HMD, you could just buy an 82" TV. Literally all the things you listed just now could all be accomplished with a AppleTV 4k and a big cheap TCL.

Heck if displays on your head is all you want, then just buy these: https://www.xreal.com/us/?activity=2119030519SC05

Apple is not interested in any of this. It's just hooks for early adopters and trying to offer continuity. But none of them are the point.
 
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The future is AR.
The future of what exactly? AR seems to be even bigger of a gimmick than VR is. And VR is already having a very tough time becoming mainstream, like I said it would remain a niche.
The only way AR can become mainstream is if we have brain implants cyberpunk style so you don't have to wear scuba gear for the street.
 
The future of what exactly? AR seems to be even bigger of a gimmick than VR is. And VR is already having a very tough time becoming mainstream, like I said it would remain a niche.
The only way AR can become mainstream is if we have brain implants cyberpunk style so you don't have to wear scuba gear for the street.
:facepalm: It's like you all don't read all of the posts for context. I said the tech necessary to get this to be where Apple wants it to be will take a minimum of 10 years and likely 20.
Yes, it is patently obvious that grandpa and soccer mom do not want to "wear scuba gear for the street". Though I have to say you have zero imagination, nor been looking at the tech long enough if you think this requires brain implants.
 
The future of what exactly? AR seems to be even bigger of a gimmick than VR is.
To answer this question directly: AR is the only thing that isn't a gimmick. It’s likely the future of communication and real time information tech.

The purpose of what Apple is trying to do is to be first into whatever the next piece of tech is that replaces the cellphone. The only way you get there is obviously by wide scale adoption by new tech that everyone from soccer mom to grandpa will actually want and use. The applications of this is basically everything a cellphone does, virtual assistant does, visual AI does, and information repositories do. And really that's the minimum. Anything that can be enhanced visually or auditorilly could be via AR.

The premise is really simple. Just watch the movie Kingsman, and it will give you at least the most basic of ideas.
You put on a regular looking pair of glasses and now "magically" you can see other people in your environment virtually (that's a concept show in the movie, Eggsy talks to other "knights" with glasses on sitting around the table).
But it has boundless applications. You drive, now painted on the highway is your route just like in a video game. In fact everything you have ever seen as part of a video game HUD could be applied to AR.

Lost your keys? Good thing they have an Apple Tracker in them, and now there is a UI element "you can see through walls" that shows you where they are (thanks Fallout 3/NV/4). Interested in that building over there? Well through AI identification and connection to Wikipedia, you can get information about it in real time. Don't want to read? Well the glasses use bone conduction to read you everything. Eventually leading to anything that you can "see", you'll be able to get information on.

In essence AR gives you all information in real time about your surroundings. It manages all the things your phone does such as phone calls and text messages calendar but now no longer requires you to pick up a device and look at a screen, because the screen is on your head.

The above honestly may be the boring, most obvious AR items that will likely occur. I didn't get into the idea of placing virtual objects in the real world as just one example. Which yes, could be used as a gimmick, but in the context of being able to add information to the world could have numerous applications. A lot of which will be work related.

EDIT: For work applications, Hololens has already started beating Apple to the punch. It's getting used in medical, construction, engineering, and manufacturing. And this is still very much early days. These applications, are very rudimentary in comparison with what AR could be given time and refinements.
 
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:facepalm: It's like you all don't read all of the posts for context. I said the tech necessary to get this to be where Apple wants it to be will take a minimum of 10 years and likely 20.
Yes, it is patently obvious that grandpa and soccer mom do not want to "wear scuba gear for the street". Though I have to say you have zero imagination, nor been looking at the tech long enough if you think this requires brain implants.
The irony is that I've had the exact same song and dance about VR years ago, and look VR is still a gimmick that almost nobody gives a damn about, even those who have it readily available more often play games without it.

So what is this big tech that allows augmented reality without a wearable device? You're right I've never heard about it. Please do show me.
 
To answer this question directly: AR is the only thing that isn't a gimmick. It’s likely the future of communication and real time information tech.

The purpose of what Apple is trying to do is to be first into whatever the next piece of tech is that replaces the cellphone. The only way you get there is obviously by wide scale adoption by new tech that everyone from soccer mom to grandpa will actually want and use. The applications of this is basically everything a cellphone does, virtual assistant does, visual AI does, and information repositories do. And really that's the minimum. Anything that can be enhanced visually or auditorilly could be via AR.

The premise is really simple. Just watch the movie Kingsman, and it will give you at least the most basic of ideas.
You put on a regular looking pair of glasses and now "magically" you can see other people in your environment virtually (that's a concept show in the movie, Eggsy talks to other "knights" with glasses on sitting around the table).
But it has boundless applications. You drive, now painted on the highway is your route just like in a video game.
You are talking about technology that doesn't exist. What exists is a goofy, heavy, cumbersome device. If it ever gets to a point where the entire tech fits in regular looking glasses it will start to have more utility instead of being a gimmick. But right now you are literally talking science fiction.
In fact everything you have ever seen as part of a video game HUD could be applied to AR.
So why not have a HUD then, that technology already exists.
Lost your keys? Good thing they have an Apple Tracker in them, and now there is a UI element "you can see through walls" that shows you where they are (thanks Fallout 3/NV/4).
What magic lets you pinpoint the exact location of a tracker in 3D Space? And why do you need to see it through walls instead of just having an app that displays its distance to you, which is actually real existing technology instead of fiction? This, seeing your lost keys through a wall is the dictionary definition of an unnecessary gimmick.
Interested in that building over there? Well through AI identification and connection to Wikipedia, you can get information about it in real time. Don't want to read? Well the glasses use bone conduction to read you everything. Eventually leading to anything that you can "see", you'll be able to get information on.
Yeah, I'd really love if it if my glasses just spammed wiki articles in front of my eyes about things that appears in my field of vision. They might even show a "relevant ad" before the actual article :D
In essence AR gives you all information in real time about your surroundings. It manages all the things your phone does such as phone calls and text messages calendar but now no longer requires you to pick up a device and look at a screen, because the screen is on your head.
Assuming I want it to be in my head all the time. But you are missing one key ingredient. If we ditch the cell phone how do you control your AR glasses? How do you make calls, how do you enter a new contact? How do you bring up an article unrelated to your current environment? Will it have mind reading capabilities as well?
The above honestly may be the boring, most obvious AR items that will likely occur. I didn't get into the idea of placing virtual objects in the real world as just one example. Which yes, could be used as a gimmick, but in the context of being able to add information to the world could have numerous applications. A lot of which will be work related.

EDIT: For work applications, Hololens has already started beating Apple to the punch. It's getting used in medical, construction, engineering, and manufacturing. And this is still very much early days. These applications, are very rudimentary in comparison with what AR could be given time and refinements.
The early days were when we explored the applicability of AR for our work more than 10 years ago. We went to a startup who genuinely thought they were in possession of the next breakout technology, a 3D input device for AR Applications. They talked about their inventor / CEO in hushed voices as if he was the next Mark Zuckerberg. If AR would've lead anywhere everybody would be using it by now, so what does that tell you about the utility of AR if 10 years later we still see virtually no practical application?
 
You are talking about technology that doesn't exist.
Yes.
What exists is a goofy, heavy, cumbersome device. If it ever gets to a point where the entire tech fits in regular looking glasses it will start to have more utility instead of being a gimmick. But right now you are literally talking science fiction.
I have zero interest in picking through the rest of your post.
You're like DNX in the regard that you apparently lack imagination or the ability to see that we do not get from A to B without starting somewhere.

There is zero tech that didn't start out as "science fiction". A rocket ship is science fiction. The idea of living on the Moon or Mars is science fiction. The ability to do it is not.

You asked for application, I gave it. It's getting used today. You have zero interest? Great. You're one person in 8 billion. You know there are tons of people that didn't see the practical application of cellphones either. Now it's a necessity for a lot of people.
 
Nope, I just wanted to build my own computer. After looking at the 6502 used in the Apple II, the 8080 in the Imsai,
and the Zilog z80, I decided on building an s100 bus system with the z80. I ended up wire wrapping most of the cards.
Was quite fun.
CP/M FTW! ;-)
 
You asked for application, I gave it.
I have to admit some of that sounds borderline distopian to me--particularly what M76 characterized as sending an ad to your screen when you walk by a store. That would be horrible. I remember people talking about that a decade or more ago when they were talking about that kind of stuff, only pushing to your phone and I'm kind of glad that particular thing never took off.
 
Lost your keys? Good thing they have an Apple Tracker in them, and now there is a UI element "you can see through walls" that shows you where they are (thanks Fallout 3/NV/4). Interested in that building over there? Well through AI identification and connection to Wikipedia, you can get information about it in real time. Don't want to read? Well the glasses use bone conduction to read you everything. Eventually leading to anything that you can "see", you'll be able to get information on

so you want everyone to be walking around with giant AR headsets on all the time?...it's way more convenient to pull out your iPhone/Android phone and get the info you listed
 
so you want everyone to be walking around with giant AR headsets on all the time?
I suspect there's an assumption that the hardware won't stay like that. Something closer to Google Glass, for example.
 
I suspect there's an assumption that the hardware won't stay like that. Something closer to Google Glass, for example.

there's really no incentive or reason for it when everyone has a smartphone nowadays that is way more compact and convenient...not just for today but 5- 10 years in the future
 
I mean it was billions of dollars and a decade of R&D to make the Vision Pro, on top of what it cost to make, produce, and distribute the thing, so they've still got a ways to go.
I’m sure that much of the tech developed from the R&D has multiple applications so it can be used in other product lines but yeah the Vision Pro has a long ways to go before it breaks even.
Still a solid start though.
 
so you want everyone to be walking around with giant AR headsets on all the time?...it's way more convenient to pull out your iPhone/Android phone and get the info you listed
Why do you respond without actually reading entire posts?

I have to admit some of that sounds borderline distopian to me--particularly what M76 characterized as sending an ad to your screen when you walk by a store. That would be horrible. I remember people talking about that a decade or more ago when they were talking about that kind of stuff, only pushing to your phone and I'm kind of glad that particular thing never took off.
Yes. There is zero tech that has ever come that didn't have multiple consequences, both good and bad. Frankly I think ads are the least of the worries.

EDIT: If you haven't thought it through, something that is connected all the time and has access to wearer data, cameras, and microphones at all times has much bigger implications for a surveillance state than even cellphones do.
 
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Why Tim Cook Is Going All in on the Apple Vision Pro

Inside Apple Park, the tech giant’s CEO talks about the genesis of a “mind-blowing” new device that could change the way we live and work...A-list directors are already on board—“My experience was religious,” says James Cameron—but will your average iPhone user drop $3,500 on a headset?

Tom Cook: “You can actually lay on your sofa and put the displays on your ceiling if you wish. I watched the third season of [Ted] Lasso on my ceiling and it was unbelievable! When I got home and hooked up my own Apple Vision Pro, I watched Ford v Ferrari on my ceiling, and with the spatial audio it felt like Ken Miles’s Ford GT40 was in the room with me. I think meditation is on a different level than anything I’ve ever experienced, and I’ve meditated for a long time. I’ve always had trouble meditating, and he was right about that too. “And I use it for productivity”

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/tim-cook-apple-vision-pro

Apple.png
 
Well, after a few hours with mine, I am… stunned. This is in some ways the single most impressive visualization device that I’ve ever used. Its ability to lock objects in place is simply amazing. I can use my phone, wash dishes or read books while wearing this - the resolution is that good. It is by no means perfect but it feels years ahead of any similar device I’ve used before.

Just stunned.
 
Well, after a few hours with mine, I am… stunned. This is in some ways the single most impressive visualization device that I’ve ever used. Its ability to lock objects in place is simply amazing. I can use my phone, wash dishes or read books while wearing this - the resolution is that good. It is by no means perfect but it feels years ahead of any similar device I’ve used before.

Just stunned.

How is it for VR games? I imagine without 6dof controllers it must be all hand tracked games. Is there hand lag at all in fast paced games?
 
How is it for VR games? I imagine without 6dof controllers it must be all hand tracked games. Is there hand lag at all in fast paced games?
The Vision Pro supports controllers. It just doesn't come with its own. Having said that, it won't have special VR controllers like other VR headsets have.
 
I'm asking specifically about VR games, not flat games. VP doesn't support VR controllers.
You replied before my edit. 🥹

Yes, that is going to be a huge issue for "VR" games. I don't see any eye/hand tracking games being made that won't completely suck arse. Which is unfortunate, because VR games with this thing would have been amazing.
 
A few more observations:

1. The FOV is not outstanding, but the resolution and latency are so outstanding that I don’t necessarily feel like it’s compromised.

2. This is hands down the best single-person movie watching device I have experienced. I have a 77” LG G3 and prefer this for movies. 3D movies on Disney Plus are astonishing.

3,. The UI with eye tracking and hand gestures works pretty well. It’s not perfect - if my hands are out of view of the cameras, it obviously doesn’t work, and so far scrolling is a bit janky. However, it’s serviceable. The in-display keyboard worked surprisingly well when poking keys.

4. I cannot overstate how impressive the rock solid spatial positioning of AR elements are. I can position a window in space and it simply does not move in relation to my surroundings or my own movements. I can walk right up to its edges and there is no jitter, no drift whatsoever. It’s absolutely remarkable.

5. The simulated AR is pretty dang good. I was able to do dishes, cook dinner and sort through mail *while wearing the Vision Pro* which I never imagined I’d be able to do. In darker environments, things become noticeably softer - it’s pushing the limits of what camera sensors can do in 2024.

6. Battery life has been OK - I can see this thing having 2-3 hours of solid runtime. iCloud syncing when turned on started burning through battery more quickly and I think I may need to let it tethered sync overnight.

7. Speaking of iCloud etc. - panoramas and spatial video are kind of overwhelming. I do not have words right now to describe how immersive and impactful both are. I can imagine this being absolutely breathtaking for sharing videos of say grandchildren with grandparents who live far away - it’s about as close to “being there” as technology permits in 2024.

8. Comfort is… okay. It’s a bit heavy but not uncomfortable. Better than my Vive Pro for what that’s worth. The head strap with straps both on top of and behind my head was the most comfortable, and it definitely messes up your hair. I think I can make a 2 hour movie work with this, now that I’ve dialed in the strap etc. More than that would be tough on my face and my eyes.

9. I’ve only tried a few apps but the ones I’ve used are, again, stunning. There was some puzzle game on the App Store that was the most vivid 3D puzzle game I’ve ever used - almost like watching a Hollywood blockbuster in terms of “CGI integration with real world” effect. Astronomy/constellation apps are… breathtaking is the only word that comes to mind right now.

10. Being able to dial in / out an environment (e.g. surface of the moon) is fun but feels a bit gimmicky. After a while, the main use I found was to dial out my surroundings for a darker movie theater experience.

This is an amazing device. It’s expensive, not for everyone, etc., and if you’re one of those “I hate Apple, and also I hate Apple” people, just ignore this post. If on the other hand you’re a tech enthusiast who gets excited about peeking into a possible future and mining it for ideas—this device is going to flood your brain with possibilities for where this kind of tech could be headed in the next few years.

I cannot believe that I can own such a thing in my own home.
 
How is it for VR games? I imagine without 6dof controllers it must be all hand tracked games. Is there hand lag at all in fast paced games?
Not sure yet - I haven’t tried many (well, any) VR games yet. I tried some slower paced puzzle games for which hand lag was a non-issue and surprisingly intuitive - e.g. I was reaching for things with my hands, and just pulling them toward me and positioning them - but I don’t think that would scale to a VR Fruit Ninja kind of thing if that’s what you’re wondering about. I don’t yet know much about controller integration - either at launch or possibilities for the future.

I sense that this is geared a bit more towards the productivity end of the spectrum at the moment. The Mac integration for example is incredible - I could type / touchpad on my MacBook Pro with a ginormous screen floating directly in front of me, replacing my laptop screen, with resolution so high that there was zero screen door effect and as far as my eyes were concerned I was looking at a virtual 40” 4k display.

That I think is the immediate use case.
 
This is an amazing device. It’s expensive, not for everyone, etc., and if you’re one of those “I hate Apple, and also I hate Apple” people, just ignore this post. If on the other hand you’re a tech enthusiast who gets excited about peeking into a possible future and mining it for ideas—this device is going to flood your brain with possibilities for where this kind of tech could be headed in the next few years.

I cannot believe that I can own such a thing in my own home.

I hate APPLE but after reading yours and others reviews I agree this is an amazing device and is a game changer just like the iPhone was. What intrigues me is that it can be used for work and productivity. On your #1 I expect it could replace televisions, especially if it comes down in price. It'll be interesting to see how Google, Meta, etc will answer this.
 
I hate APPLE but after reading yours and others reviews I agree this is an amazing device and is a game changer just like the iPhone was. What intrigues me is that it can be used for work and productivity. On your #1 I expect it could replace televisions, especially if it comes down in price. It'll be interesting to see how Google, Meta, etc will answer this.
This is not Macintosh or iPhone level of 'game changing'.
 
I would be curious for the argument that it could be (sound quite early to call it already)

Just the statement that it could replace television, TV is quite a bit about the shared experience and living room comfort (the part talking about single-person movie watching device being important,i.e. does not replace tv), computer/console monitor would be more likely.

Won part that seem to be a possible important part is being able to play ping-pong with them (if the ability to actually see the real world with augmented reality over a la google glass/microsoft lens never happen), but we can imagine that seeing the actual real world with augmented reality over it is a necessary step for this to catch up.
 
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I would be curious for the argument that it could be (sound quite early to call it already)

Just the statement that it could replace television, TV is quite a bit about the shared experience and living room comfort (the part talking about single-person movie watching device being important,i.e. does not replace tv), computer/console monitor would be more likely.
I don't know any normies that would ever in a million years ditch their giant TV's in their living rooms so they could all sit with goggles on their head. It's just idiotic to think that would happen. Is it a potential monitor replacement for professionals and geeks? Sure. That's not a game changer though. The Nintendo Switch is more 'game changing' than this.
 
I think this show why clearly it is not yet in is game-changing state:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1753659567748313093

I am quite open to the idea that it is a prototype that show the tech could become a game changer one day and not far away, it is easy to imagine a M6 of TSMC 2nm with where battery tech will be that has all the power-battery life for this part of it to be good enough for sure and for that to be the case as soon as say 2026.
 
I think this show why clearly it is not yet in is game-changing state:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1753659567748313093

I am quite open to the idea that it is a prototype that show the tech could become a game changer one day and not far away, it is easy to imagine a M6 of TSMC 2nm with where battery tech will be that has all the power-battery life for this part of it to be good enough for sure and for that to be the case as soon as say 2026.
That dude is a gigantic moron of epic proportions.
 
I would be curious for the argument that it could be (sound quite early to call it already)

Just the statement that it could replace television, TV is quite a bit about the shared experience and living room comfort (the part talking about single-person movie watching device being important,i.e. does not replace tv), computer/console monitor would be more likely.

Sphinx99 said the Vision Pro was better than his 77in TV and I believe him. I think I'd prefer something like a compact Vision Pro instead of big heavy-ish TVs taking up space in my house. A good comparison would be digital cameras and camcorders being replaced by smartphones.

Technology is finally catching up from the pandemic slow down, get ready.
 
Sphinx99 said the Vision Pro was better than his 77in TV and I believe him. I think I'd prefer something like a compact Vision Pro instead of big heavy-ish TVs taking up space in my house. A good comparison would be digital cameras and camcorders being replaced by smartphones.

Technology is finally catching up from the pandemic slow down, get ready.
You don't have friends if that's the case. No one, and I mean no one, is going to want to sit around drinking wine with their friends watching Housewives of Utah (Or whatever dumb show it is) with goggles on.

Even if i'm sitting upstairs watching stuff with the family i'm not going to want to do with stupid goggles on. This is like pure-autist stuff.

Again - VR is a dead-end when it comes to mass consumer appeal until they can figure out how to do without people needing to wear giant goggles.

This element is what the Macintosh, iPod, and iPhone had, and what the Vision Pro is missing. All the prior big consumer devices from Apple were absolutely game changing in terms of human ease-of-use. Remember the whole bit of Steve Jobs joking at the iPhone release about the stylus? The problem with VR right now is that it's still in the 'stylus' phase so speak.
 
Sphinx99 said the Vision Pro was better than his 77in TV and I believe him.
Yes I can imagine being a better single-person movie watching device like he said, not a better movie (or superbowl) watching experience than what a tv enable the moment you are not alone watching.

A good comparison would be digital cameras and camcorders being replaced by smartphones.
a smarthphone is almost exactly the same shape and user experience than the digital camera too, imagine 6 people wearing personal mask watching the superbowl next weekend versus a single shared television that significantly more different than the smarthphone replacing the digital camera.
 
Yes I can imagine being a better single-person movie watching device like he said, not a better movie (or superbowl) watching experience than what a tv enable the moment you are not alone watching.


a smarthphone is almost exactly the same shape and user experience than the digital camera too, imagine 6 people wearing personal mask watching the superbowl next weekend versus a single shared television that significantly more different than the smarthphone replacing the digital camera.

Thats hyperbole, my last digital camera that is a 15 year old Canon Elph looks nowhere near like a smartphone. Compact but still bulky in comparison to a modern smartphone even from 10 years ago.

Moving forward. Imagine those 6 people coming over and able to interact with friends, eat party food and enjoy the same sports game each with the best view in the house wearing a lighter and comfortable version of the Vision Pro. Its still early but I can see this is the future, less than 8 years I guesstimate.
 
Compact but still bulky in comparison to a modern smartphone even from 10 years ago.
Did smartphone got smaller over time ?
A Canon Elph was 7 cubic inch the protective case of an iphone 14 pro is 9.45 cubic inch

Is it really an hyperbole to say that an iphone when hold in a way to take a picture is quite the same rectangular (worst in every way ergonomically but with a better preview monitor) experience than a digital camera, the game changer was having the phone always on you and the phone connection to livestream, not how it take picture versus the digital camera.

. Imagine those 6 people coming over and able to interact with friends, eat party food and enjoy the same sports game each with the best view in the house wearing a lighter and comfortable version of the Vision Pro.
I can see in what way many things would be lost and more expensive for so little potential gain, view angle versus a small room/small tv situation, not loosing the game when going to the fridge-piss by keeping it in a corner.

But either you do not gain a giant screen with the mask because you keep visible the surrounding, you simply get a bit bigger-better angle or you loose your surrounding. They would need to be as light and comfortable as wearing sunglass I feel for it to be worth it.

One nice possibility is to add people that are not there in the virtual environment,
 
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