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99% of monitors are designed for office use and use backlight technology that ranges from basic to HDR local dimming. At their core, they all use the same versatile technology.
The backlighting method is the big difference and is where the cost plays a factor. Why would an office space spend money on hundreds of 1000+ nit HDR MiniLED screens when they can buy super cheap edge-lit "work" monitors for a fraction of the cost?
Depends on what kind of images. If it is sRGB, all type of monitors will look the same after calibration since the monitors can be calibrated to Delta E < 2. If it is HDR image then there are only a few HDR1000 monitors can look the same.
The manufacturer have implemented blue light reduction on both OLED and LCD backlight. The blue light has a similar crest around 450nm with a shortwave ratio around 10%-15%.
Do you even realize the edge-lit backlight LED and local dimming backlight LED can have the same supplier? It's the same technology to be improved on.
Reviewers can be wrong. They are users after all. They are not makers. You wait and see how the market goes.
Do you even realise the price difference between edge-lit office monitors and HDR1000 MiniLED screens?
I cannot wait to see your company replace its office LCD with an OLED one day.
What a completely random and pointless statement.
That was me. Cheap LCDs, mostly bottom rung edge-lit things, are bought en masse by workplaces with offices and such.
Agreed, it's certainly what's stopping me. The things endlessly argued about in this thread aren't as significant as the burn-in factor. I hold too many static tools on the screen for too long every day and I have no interest in the whole "hide your taskbar!" mitigation crap. I want the display to last me. My previous display lasted 13 years though I have no intention of going quite that long again... it was a bit of a dinosaur by then.
Even if I did want to do all the mitigation stuff, the very act of doing it would make me think about burn in all the time. That concern at the back of my mind constantly, with annoying image retention being the "reward" for forgetting to do it, or simply using the display as I do my current one.
I miss the awesome visual pop of the QN90A mini Led (Samsung) that I used, but eyestrain is my issue with it. It did hurt my eyes looking at it due to the brightness I think. And I've heard about settings I can tweak to minimize the eye problems. If you know of those settings without sacrificing too much in IQ I can try my Samsung again.
If you're a hardcore gamer you're not going to settle for guaranteed garbage LCD image quality to be completely frank.
It's all tradeoffs. Per pixel emissive is the future just as much as HDR is. - - Per pixel emissive is here - - with tradeoffs just like brighter HDR is here with FALD's stop-gap solution tradeoffs. They will both fail good brightness and blooming, uniformity, variance tests. Ad nauseam: pick your poison.
. . .
I did look into these samsung FALD tvs previously as I was curious how the FALD tech option was doing on that front.
Rtings reports in the quotes, other comments are mine.
===========================================
QN90B
- Bright SDR (for bright room use since our eyes work in a relative way)
- Aggressive ABL
"The Samsung QN90B has fantastic peak brightness in SDR. It's bright enough to overcome glare in any room, even if you have a lot of windows or lights. Unfortunately, large bright scenes are dimmed considerably by the TV's Automatic Brightness limiter (ABL)."
-Local Dimming even worse in Game Mode. More blooming, slow transitions visible.
"Unfortunately, like most Samsung TVs, the local dimming feature performs worse overall in 'Game' Mode. The overall performance is pretty similar, but the TV seems to be spreading highlights out over a greater number of zones, so there's a bit more noticeable blooming. The processing is also slightly slower, so zone transitions are more noticeable. However, it's mainly due to the increased blooming. On the other hand, shadow details are a bit better, and there's less black crush overall."
- conversely worse shadow details in movies, more black crush
- - Blooming and varying elevated blacks in adjacent areas (and sometimes even non-adjacent) in dynamic content are unavoidable on FALD densities we have now. Tradeoffs = Not very noticeable, not too bad, can live with it, could be worse . . etc. They are all tradeoffs
Movies rather than the worse game mode: "There's a bit of blooming around bright objects in dark scenes" - - - > "but it's not very noticeable." - but but but. . how very is very ? noticeable = noticeable tradeoff
-shows things brighter than intended, clips, loses detail.
"most scenes appear significantly brighter than the content creator intended. There's also a very sharp cutoff at the TV's peak brightness, which causes bright white highlights to clip, so fine details are lost. It also behaves differently with different content, as content mastered at 4,000 cd/m² starts to roll off at lower peak brightness, as the TV's tone mapping kicks in earlier than with 1,000 and 600 cd/m² content."
-PWM an issue in some modes , may make some modes and settings unusable.
"The Samsung QN90B uses pulse width modulation (PWM) to dim its backlight, and the flicker frequency varies between picture modes and with certain settings. In 'Movie' mode, with the backlight set between '46' and the max of '50', the backlight flickers at 120Hz. However, it increases to 960Hz with a backlight setting below '46'. The flicker frequency drops to 120Hz in the 'Dynamic', 'Natural', 'Standard', and 'Filmmaker' Picture Modes, or if you enable the Game Mode or Picture Clarity settings. This low flicker frequency can cause headaches if you're sensitive to flicker, and it also causes image duplications with 60Hz content."
"The LG C2 isn't quite flicker-free, as there's a small decrease in brightness that corresponds with the refresh cycle of the display. It's very different from pulse width modulation flicker (PWM) on TVs with LED backlights. "
Samsung QN90B PWM . . LG C2 VRR backlight . . S95B OLED backlight
-- Directions,... err.. screen surface, unclear. Rainbow matte AG layer ( doesn't have the rainbow version on the 43" and 50" models though at least)
"Rainbow sheen from AG coating if light hits it" - also lifted blacks and compromised detail, lack of as saturated of a look, etc. from any activated by ambient lighting matte type AG surface abrasion
- BGR (OLED is pentile or WRGB though)
- OLED has better contrast (into the depths of oblivion and side-by side pixel vs colors rather than brickwork of large zones) and no blooming around bright objects in bright scenes, no varying black background lifting adjacent to bright areas, highlights stand out since they are down to razor's edge per pixel next to darks.
"The LG C2 OLED and the Samsung QN90B QLED are both impressive TVs, and the best one depends on your viewing conditions. The LG is a better choice for a dim or dark room, as it has much better contrast and no blooming around bright objects in dark scenes. The Samsung TV, on the other hand, is a better choice for a bright room, as it gets significantly brighter.
. .
QN 95B QD LED LCD
Per RTings (official RTings in the quotes):
- Bright SDR (for bright room use since our eyes work in a relative way
- Aggressive ABL
"The Samsung QN95B has superb peak brightness in SDR. It's bright enough to overcome glare in any room, even if you have a lot of windows or lights. Unfortunately, large bright scenes are dimmed considerably by the TV's Automatic Brightness limiter (ABL),"
-Local Dimming even worse in Game Mode
"Unfortunately, like most Samsung TVs, the local dimming feature performs worse overall in 'Game' Mode. The overall performance is pretty similar, but the TV seems to be spreading highlights out over a greater number of zones, so there's a bit more noticeable blooming. The processing is also slightly slower, so zone transitions are more noticeable. However, it's mainly due to the increased blooming. On the other hand, shadow details are a bit better, and there's less black crush overall."
= Zoned out. Confining to less zones on highlights sounds like more black crush and more lost details, spreading to more zones has more blooming and slower more overt transitions.
-Slightly worse color than the QN90B
"The Samsung QN95B has decent HDR color volume, but it's slightly worse than the Samsung QN90B QLED. It's mainly limited by its incomplete color gamut, but colors aren't quite as bright as they should be"
- - - Blooming and varying elevated blacks in adjacent areas (and sometimes even non-adjacent) in dynamic content are unavoidable on FALD densities we have now.
"Some blooming around bright objects"
-Local Dimming even worse in Game Mode. More blooming, slow transitions visible.
"Unfortunately, like most Samsung TVs, the local dimming feature performs worse overall in 'Game' Mode. The overall performance is pretty similar, but the TV seems to be spreading highlights out over a greater number of zones, so there's a bit more noticeable blooming. The processing is also slightly slower, so zone transitions are more noticeable. However, it's mainly due to the increased blooming. On the other hand, shadow details are a bit better, and there's less black crush overall."
- - conversely worse shadow details in movies, more black crush
-- Directions,... err.. screen surface, unclear. Rainbow matte AG layer on all models I think
"Rainbow sheen from AG coating if light hits it" - also lifted blacks and compromised detail, lack of as saturated of a look, etc. from any activated by ambient lighting matte type AG surface abrasion
- BGR (OLED is pentile or WRGB though)
-PWM an issue in some modes , may make some modes and settings unusable.
- In 'Movie' mode, with the backlight set between '38' and the max of '50', the backlight flickers at 120Hz. However, it increases to 960Hz with a backlight setting below '38'.
- The flicker frequency drops to 120Hz in the 'Dynamic', 'Natural', 'Standard', and 'Filmmaker' Picture Modes. This low flicker frequency can cause headaches if you're sensitive to flicker, and it also causes image duplications with 60Hz content.
- In 'Game' mode, it flickers at 120Hz with a backlight setting of '36' and up, and it flickers at 960Hz below '36'. If you enable the variable refresh rate feature, it always flickers at 960Hz.
- In 'PC' mode, it always flickers at 120Hz in the 'Graphics' Picture Mode. In the 'Entertain' mode, it flickers at 120Hz with a backlight setting below 49, but it's flicker-free at 49 or 50.
"The LG C2 isn't quite flicker-free, as there's a small decrease in brightness that corresponds with the refresh cycle of the display. It's very different from pulse width modulation flicker (PWM) on TVs with LED backlights. "
Samsung QN95B PWM . . LG C2 VRR backlight . . S95B OLED backlight
- OLED has better contrast (into the depths of oblivion and side-by side pixel vs colors rather than brickwork of large zones) and no blooming around bright objects in bright scenes, no varying black background lifting adjacent to bright areas, highlights stand out since they are down to razor's edge per pixel next to darks.
"The LG C2 OLED delivers a better dark room viewing experience than the Samsung QN95B QLED, but the Samsung looks better than the LG in a bright room. The LG's near-infinite contrast ratio delivers incredibly deep, uniform blacks, and lets bright highlights stand out with no blooming. The Samsung, on the other hand, gets significantly brighter, so it's a better choice for a bright room with lots of natural light."
. . .
QN900B is their 8k tv which also has some tradeoffs.
Worth mentioning since they keep being brought up that the aggressive ABL on them is listed in reviews as a con. I think all of the 2022 2000nit qd-led LCDs do, incl. their 8k one. Not sure what the C 2023 ones are going to do but I read that their 8k 2023 900C flagship has lower brightness than their 2022 models so maybe that one doesn't will have to see reviews on it later. Idk if 2000nit+ progressing toward 4000nit, 10,000nit will be able to avoid ABL even on FALD leds unless they do some serious cooling and/or refine the tech brightness vs heat somehow. The FALD zones behave much worse in game mode on samsung LED FALD tvs too.
-Weird gray uniformity issue with a large dark band across middle of screen + can actually see the backlight brickwork grid in solid bright fields of color (wtf) :
"The Samsung QN900B has just decent gray uniformity. There's a large dark band across the entire width of the screen, which is distracting when watching sports. The sides of the screen are also a bit darker than the center. Unfortunately, the LED backlight grid is noticeable with certain content, especially if the TV is displaying a white screen or any uniform color."
-PWM an issue in some modes , may make some modes and settings unusable:
"The LG C2 isn't quite flicker-free, as there's a small decrease in brightness that corresponds with the refresh cycle of the display. It's very different from pulse width modulation flicker (PWM) on TVs with LED backlights. "
- In 'Dynamic', 'Standard', and 'FILMMAKER' modes, the backlight always flickers at 120Hz. This low flicker frequency can cause headaches if you're sensitive to flicker, and it also causes image duplications with 60Hz content.
- In 'Movie' and 'Game' mode, the backlight flickers at '960Hz' if the 'Brightness' setting is between 0 and 30. The flicker frequency drops to 120Hz with 'Brightness' set to 31 or higher.
- With the input label set to 'PC', it flickers at 120Hz with a 'Brightness' setting of 46 or lower in both 'Entertain' and 'Graphic' modes, but it's flicker-free between 47 and 50.
Samsung QN900B PWM . . LG C2 VRR backlight . . S95B OLED backlight
- Loss of fine details in some content:
"tone mapping is a bit off with highly saturated colors, causing a loss of fine details. You won't notice this with most content, but the Rec. 2020 color space is gaining in popularity, especially in animated films and some nature documentaries."
-Local Dimming even worse in Game Mode. More blooming, slow transitions visible.
"Unfortunately, like most Samsung TVs, the local dimming feature performs worse overall in 'Game' Mode. The overall performance is pretty similar, but the TV seems to be spreading highlights out over a greater number of zones, so there's a bit more noticeable blooming. The processing is also slightly slower, so zone transitions are more noticeable. However, it's mainly due to the increased blooming. On the other hand, shadow details are a bit better, and there's less black crush overall."
- Directions,... err.. screen surface, unclear:
"Unfortunately, the 'Ultra Viewing Angle' layer causes bright lights to create a rainbow smear across the screen, which can be distracting even if the lights aren't directly opposite the TV, including overhead lights." - also lifted blacks and compromised detail, lack of as saturated of a look, etc. from any activated by ambient lighting matte type AG surface abrasion
- BGR (OLED is pentile or WRGB though)
==============================================
Between all of those tradeoffs and those I posted on the ucx/ucg type screens from the hdtvtest screencaps and video I replied with . . .
They all have tradeoffs, oled and FALD and even between different makes and models of oled and falds. After per pixel emissive I couldn't go back to large zone lighting Tetris brickwork personally but I can see why people take those tradeoffs for the other gains. If there were no oleds I'd have more or less "no other choice" but I do have the choice. VR will go all per pixel emissive soon with bright mico-oled so will be per pixel from then on through microLED era. . but I'll have to wait years to get a consumer priced 42" - 55" microLED room sized screen. Then again, time flies. 3 years isn't that big deal of wait to me now with a good monitor at hand but another 5+ from now is a good wait if that long. Per pixel emissive is worth the tradeoffs I get now, and worth the wait and looking forward to microLED later. I'll still look at FALDs if their lighting resolution increases by a lot someday before that though, depending on what advances oled comes up with in that timeframe, or some kind of other tech leaps across the board.
I see FALD like I do projectors with a dynamic iris. It gets the job done but there are constraints. To me it's just fake contrast. I'm sure this comment will draw the ire of certain folks on this thread, but it is what it is. I would love to see those dual-LCD screens develop some more and get faster, in terms of response. Because as far as I can tell, that's the only tech we have that can give consistent 1000nit performance with a nearly-perfect black background.
Which is why for me, if I had the money, I'd be fine getting the LG 27-inch OLED. I don't care if I just use it for sRGB and SDR content. I calibrate my screens to around 95 nits in my office and it's just peachy. Having that OLED with its true blacks would be killer. No BFI makes for a little bit of a disappointment but hopefully we get a model with it next go-round.
Strong example of justifying ownership of a certain product. Everything has flaws or compromises, nothing is perfect.
This babyshark smells blood in the water and is out to get me? LOL
