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You can use any of these monitors at 60 Hz.At this point I wonder if I'd be better off seeing if there is a monitor with 60hz refresh rate as long as all of the other boxes are checked...60 fps at 4k still is not a given if I'm correct so I really wouldn't be missing anything
There are only two monitors available. Those from Innolux, and those from AUO. The MPG321UR-QD is an AUO which is the same as the Asus, down to the exact panel model number.Why not try the MSI MPG321UR-QD as well?
I noticed the slow pixel response on the Asus prior to even seeing reviews. But if you look at the reviews you can see for yourself. You either get OK response time, or inverse ghosting. Even if it was just OK response time with no inverse ghosting at any refresh rate that still wouldn't be acceptable for a $1000 monitor. The FI32U and M32U both have the same Innolux panel, with a pixel response time twice as fast as the AUO version found in models like the Asus and MSI. It is not misinformation, the data is readily available from multiple sources. Refresh rate and response time are correlated but not mutually exclusive. My 60hz PS321URV has no visible ghosting. The Asus has noticeable ghosting. Remember that at 144hz the screen is refreshing approximately every 6.9ms. In the case of the Asus PG32UQ, it takes around 10ms for the pixels to refresh *on average*, meaning the pixels never catch up to what the monitor driver is sending to the raw pixels. What you get is ghosting and other artifacts. So no, the PG32UQ's pixel response time is not "fine", especially not for gaming. Hardware Unboxed review video is literally titled "Why So Slow?" and headlines with "Maximum Colors, Minimum Speed".You can use any of these monitors at 60 Hz.
These last several posts are really strange.
PG32UQ's response time are absolutely fine for gaming (they are 100% fine for 120Hz for example and I honestly don't see any issues above either), and I can hardly notice OD overshoot in any mode but the fastest one.
Saying that a 60Hz older panel has the same response time as the faster panel in M32U sounds just like a misinformation to me as well.
I look at the monitor as I write these and see nothing of what you're saying.I noticed the slow pixel response on the Asus prior to even seeing reviews. But if you look at the reviews you can see for yourself. You either get OK response time, or inverse ghosting.
Why? Is there a better monitor with such parameters cheaper?Even if it was just OK response time with no inverse ghosting at any refresh rate that still wouldn't be acceptable for a $1000 monitor.
Your 60Hz panel by default has way more noticeable ghosting than a 144Hz one. This is the misinformation.The FI32U and M32U both have the same Innolux panel, with a pixel response time twice as fast as the AUO version found in models like the Asus and MSI. It is not misinformation, the data is readily available from multiple sources. Refresh rate and response time are correlated but not mutually exclusive. My 60hz PS321URV has no visible ghosting. The Asus has noticeable ghosting.
What you get is some color transitions being below the refresh rate, and this is only true for refreshes above 120Hz really (133 or so even). This is absolutely not the same as "what you get is ghosting and other artifacts". You get a modern gaming LCD monitor. They all have these.Remember that at 144hz the screen is refreshing approximately every 6.9ms. In the case of the Asus PG32UQ, it takes around 10ms for the pixels to refresh *on average*, meaning the pixels never catch up to what the monitor driver is sending to the raw pixels. What you get is ghosting and other artifacts.
Yes, they absolutely are. Saying this as someone who is gaming on this monitor.So no, the PG32UQ's pixel response time is not "fine", especially not for gaming.
Clickbaits gets you the clicks, yeah.Hardware Unboxed review video is literally titled "Why So Slow?"
They have narrower color coverage. Again this is absolutely not the same as "worse image quality".The M32U and FI32U have panels that are fast enough for their 144hz refresh rates (if just barely), but they also have worse image quality than the AUO panel, and by a good margin.
Again, give me an example of a better 32" 144Hz 4K monitor at $800 of M32U.Not acceptable for their price points.
The monitor is factory calibrated in sRGB mode which is written in the report which comes with it.My PG32UQ had good gamut coverage, but terrible out-of-the-box calibration and gimped settings for a proper calibration.
120hz vs 144hz is negligible at best. The biggest jump is 60hz to 120hz.Still don't know why they can't just make a 27" or 32" OLED already. Just cut the big TV-size monitors in half, lol.
Edit: Nevermind, forgot about 144Hz. The wait continues.
I decided after try #3 that neither the M32U or Asus one were worth a damn so getting a 48" C1 that will be games only.You have no idea what you are talking about, and I wont argue with someone who will defend a bad purchase simply because it makes them feel better about it. The information I gave was factual. Saying "well what other options are there?" does not justify them. The other option is NOT throwing money into a fire and waiting until something worthwhile comes, which eventually it will.
Also FYI, the "factory calibrated" sRGB mode is a joke. I measured it with an i1 display pro plus with an average deltaE of 5.3, a heavy blue shift, and 96% gamut coverage. I wouldn't be surprised of those factory calibrated pieces of printer paper they come with are all identical, or selected from a chosen few.
Forgot to add, LG is releasing the 42" variant of their 4k OLED in less than 2 months. It will be priced below $1000. It will have near 100% P3 coverage, less than 1ms response times, no inverse ghosting, true HDR, full bandwidth HDMI 2.1, VRR, etc. I wont be getting it simply because I have some burn-in on my C9 and its to big for me, but it will destroy all of these monitors in every way by a country mile.
I've asked you two times to give me an example of a better purchase. You obviously can't do that. Thus all your rant is basically meaningless.You have no idea what you are talking about, and I wont argue with someone who will defend a bad purchase simply because it makes them feel better about it.
It will also be a WRGB panel which means that it won't be suitable for any sort of precise desktop work, only games and movies.Forgot to add, LG is releasing the 42" variant of their 4k OLED in less than 2 months. It will be priced below $1000. It will have near 100% P3 coverage, less than 1ms response times, no inverse ghosting, true HDR, full bandwidth HDMI 2.1, VRR, etc.
I don’t think that’s true at all, just wait for the CES 2022 next year and the announcements.And consider this: panel development leads are rather long. These AUO and Innolux panels won't be seriously updated for a couple of years at best. There may be some OC versions hitting 160Hz but that's about it. What else is there? There will likely be a 32" sized 4K LGD panel from their "fast IPS" line next year - and that's about it. These monitors are here for the next couple of years. If you're fine waiting till 2023-4 for the next generation of this tech then fine, do that. I myself will be waiting on this gen though since it definitely beats waiting another 2-3 years on anything available previously.
Yup. Just look at Apple's mini LED tech. With 10,000 LEDS in 2,500 zones on a laptop. The tech is here.I don’t think that’s true at all, just wait for the CES 2022 next year and the announcements.
But if you’re actually right then I will too buy a 42er LG OLED, even if it’s too fcking big for me.
The announcements at CES 2022 will come to market at the end of 2022 at best. See the date when the very same PG32UQ was announced. There are some other more egregious examples as well where monitor products have been MIA for about two years after their announcements.I don’t think that’s true at all, just wait for the CES 2022 next year and the announcements.
42" is actually a perfect size for a 4K monitor. You will be able to use it with 100% desktop scaling which is a plus.But if you’re actually right then I will too buy a 42er LG OLED, even if it’s too fcking big for me.
That tech will cost ~$5000 for the same panel size and will still have all the same issues but the one with the 16 backlight zones not being enough for HDR.Just look at Apple's mini LED tech. With 10,000 LEDS in 2,500 zones on a laptop. The tech is here.
Anecdotally, ive been using OLEDs as main work monitors for the last 3 years and have yet to see any burn-in. The C1 gets about 10-12 hours of usage in desktop content, programming, JIRA dashboards and such, M-F and about 4 hrs on Saturday and Sunday.But with OLEDs there's a catch which is burn-in which I'd expect to destroy the panel in about one year of a typical desktop work usage.
The rtings review confirm the M32U is a good monitorOk so I located my X-Rite and and... it's soft touch coating had turned all sticky. Anyway, after 1 hour of removing it with isopropyl alcohol I calibrated the M32U.
The results:
DeltaE : 0.12 (avg), 1.14 (max), 0.23 (RMS)
sRGB coverage: 99.7%
AdobeRGB coverage: 85.4%
DCI P3 coverage: 87.8%
Black level = 0.1061 cd/m^2
White level = 112.91 cd/m^2
Aprox. gamma = 2.23
Contrast ratio = 1064:1
Screen settings:
- profile: custom 1
- brightness: 22
- contrast: 50
- color vibance: 10
- sharpness: 5
- gamma: 2.2
- color temperature: R96 G96 B98
Not too bad for an IPS display.
I picked up another M32U today in hopes id get a "good one". Nope. It's junk. The same as the previous M32U. The image quality is just so far behind the PS321URV. The lack of P3 gamut coverage compared to the PS321URV is extremely obvious and the black levels are on another level with the PS321URV. Anyone who has an M32U or FI32U should also check to see if they have streaking on an all black screen. Both of the M32U's ive had have the exact same streaking on an all black screen. Its not banding, but literally thin vertical streaks that run through the AG coating. Its just not worth buying these 32" 4k 144hz panels. They are made as cheap as possible and priced like they are high end displays.
The problem is the price. For the price, in the case of the innolux models (M32U, FI32U, and others) these should be 95%+ DCI-P3. The innolux panel suffers from phosphor decay thanks to the use of the cheapest method possible to qualify for wide color gamut. To most it is unnoticeable, but to a trained eye you can see a red after image specifically with white text on a black background. Similar to the "Rainbow Effect" found on DLP projectors, but instead of a rainbow its just red. The above person is claiming this is a good monitor because you could calibrate it with an x-rite and make an ICC profile. Well an x-rite will get good results with a $200 TN monitor. An ICC profile is useless for games, I dont know a single game that will use the ICC profile in full screen mode. Sure if you want to play windowed that will likely apply your ICC profile. It seems a lot of people dont understand how windows manages color profiles. Most web browsers dont even use ICC profiles, including chrome.I agree. But question: Why does P3 gamut coverage matter for the M32U? I don't know much but my assumption was that the need for wider color gamuts (P3 and REC.2020) were for HDR viewing since that type of content takes advantage of said wider color gamuts. For regular SDR viewing, isn't sRGB gamut coverage which the M32U covers basically all of it, enough? Why is there a need for wide color gamut coverage when the only content that should be viewed on the M32U is SDR and not HDR. HDR400/600 with 8-16 edge lit zones is an absolute joke and I think these monitors should be treated as regular SDR monitors. Now if you are doing some photo work that uses P3 and Adobe RGB color space then I can understand that.
The problem is the price. For the price, in the case of the innolux models (M32U, FI32U, and others) these should be 95%+ DCI-P3. The innolux panel suffers from phosphor decay thanks to the use of the cheapest method possible to qualify for wide color gamut. To most it is unnoticeable, but to a trained eye you can see a red after image specifically with white text on a black background. Similar to the "Rainbow Effect" found on DLP projectors, but instead of a rainbow its just red. The above person is claiming this is a good monitor because you could calibrate it with an x-rite and make an ICC profile. Well an x-rite will get good results with a $200 TN monitor. An ICC profile is useless for games, I dont know a single game that will use the ICC profile in full screen mode. Sure if you want to play windowed that will likely apply your ICC profile. It seems a lot of people dont understand how windows manages color profiles. Most web browsers dont even use ICC profiles, including chrome.
I have seen thousands of displays and have had hands-on time with some ultra high end displays. These Innolux and AUO 4k/144hz panels rank as some of the worst panels I have seen. They both have major compromises, on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Rtings ratings are misleading as they take objective data measurements which on the surface seem great. However in real world usage the expectation you might get from the rtings ratings vs what you experience will not line up. To anyone happy with these displays they likely dont know better which is what I assume is the target audience is for these. For example someone stated above that 60hz by default means the pixel response time is slower than any 144hz display, which means they dont understand what pixel response is.
Lets look at the PG32UQ. At its maximum refresh rate of 155hz, the panel driver is processing and sending a new frame to the raw pixels every 6.45ms. However, the panel is only able to do a top to bottom refresh every 8.88ms (level 4 OD, with decent overshoot), 37% slower than what would be required to keep up with this refresh rate. You might say well ok, just set the panel to an 8.88ms refresh rate which would be 112hz. Well unfortunately as you lower the refresh rate, voltage surge requirements change and thus pixel response time becomes greater to maintain the same level of overshoot. You could keep OD voltage the same (level 4 OD) at lower refresh rates and have fast response times, but you would be increasing overshoot exponentially. So what you need is a good base level response time from the start that scales with different refresh rates. Many quality panels are able to maintain pixel response times and balance overshoot with their respective refresh rates. The PG32UQ is not a high refresh rate 4k monitor. It is a 4k monitor that can accept high refresh rates, but not display them. You will never get a true high refresh rate experience with the PG32UQ. It is not worth $999. I wouldn't even buy it at $500.
The innolux variants are the only true 4k/144hz 32" panels out right now. They are fast enough to give you the high refresh rate experience. However in my opinion, the refresh rate does not make up for the other compromises. A good quality 32" 4k panel will give you a better overall experience, and at a lower cost. Yes it will only be 60hz (some can OC to 75hz), but if you are in the market for a 32" 4k monitor I just cant recommend the current crop of 4k/144hz 32" monitors. If you want a high refresh rate monitor for competitive gaming you are better off with a 32" 1440p high refresh rate monitor until REAL 4k/144hz monitors become available. If the PPI is to low move down to a 27" panel.
Again, this is just a lie. You're taking WORST transition times and applying them to ALL pixels. Which isn't at all how it works in practice where such transitions would be happening to ~20% of pixels and you'll see OD artifacts at ~10% of them. This is basically unnoticeable for the majority of uses.You will never get a true high refresh rate experience with the PG32UQ.
And this is just pure b.s.A good quality 32" 4k panel will give you a better overall experience, and at a lower cost. Yes it will only be 60hz (some can OC to 75hz), but if you are in the market for a 32" 4k monitor I just cant recommend the current crop of 4k/144hz 32" monitors.
Riiiight. I am misinformed, and not the person who are saying things which don't exist in this universe.You are so misinformed I wont even bother responding to this lol.
"Average" pixel response times are including these "rare unicorn transitions" into them. Hence why they are "average".For anyone willing to educate themselves, here is a simplified review laying out *average* (not rare unicorn transitions) pixel response times:
Sorry, you are still ignorant to how LCD's work. Lowering the refresh rate of an LCD panel at the same OD level does in fact lower response time, at the expense of overshoot. Again, voltage surge requirements change with refresh rate. Its the nature of LCD's. For the PG32UQ to finally reach an acceptable pixel response time at your 120hz-144hz range (level 4 OD), overshoot is now an issue. You should also realize that there are panels, 60hz in fact, that have pixel response times under 4ms with acceptable overshoot. Even more extreme would be OLED, with less than 1ms response time and no overshoot, even at 60hz. These displays would give a visually better experience in motion despite being 60hz."Average" pixel response times are including these "rare unicorn transitions" into them. Hence why they are "average".
This review is also done at 155Hz overclock - which is essentially useless on that monitor due to panel not being fast enough for it and the fact that it removes all refreshes between 60 and 155.
The panel is completely fine at 120-144Hz and it's definitely better than your "unicorn 60Hz monitor" for gaming and general usage.
Actually yes, that is quite a difference. The apparent motion resolution of the FI32U appears to be about DOUBLE that of the PG32UQ. Look at the black curved lines on the red part of the ship. They are nearly absent on the PG32UQ.What a difference, eh?
Notice the "magnified" part as well. You won't see these like that in practice.
You control OD on that monitor, and no, overshoot is not an issue on it, unless you do something stupid like run 60Hz at OD4 or use OD5.Sorry, you are still ignorant to how LCD's work. Lowering the refresh rate of an LCD panel at the same OD level does in fact lower response time, at the expense of overshoot. Again, voltage surge requirements change with refresh rate. Its the nature of LCD's. For the PG32UQ to finally reach an acceptable pixel response time at your 120hz-144hz range (level 4 OD), overshoot is now an issue.
Sure and they will still be SLOWER in actual pixel response times than these 144Hz monitors. Because - here's something from this universe for you - pixel response time can't be faster than panel refresh rate. You get it?You should also realize that there are panels, 60hz in fact, that have pixel response times under 4ms with acceptable overshoot. Even more extreme would be OLED, with less than 1ms response time and no overshoot, even at 60hz. These displays would give a visually better experience in motion despite being 60hz.
No further questions.Actually yes, that is quite a difference. The motion resolution of the Fi32U appears to be about DOUBLE that of the PG32UQ.
The innolux panel suffers from phosphor decay thanks to the use of the cheapest method possible to qualify for wide color gamut. To most it is unnoticeable, but to a trained eye you can see a red after image specifically with white text on a black background. Similar to the "Rainbow Effect" found on DLP projectors, but instead of a rainbow its just red.
The way I am able to see it is by rapidly moving eyes left and right, the same method used to see the rainbow effect on DLP. The text does not need to be moving. Some people are not capable of seeing it.Do you have a method to show this red "phosphor decay" ? I took photographs of a white text on black background while scrolling aggressively (both vertically and horizontally) and I cannot see any evident artifact (fringing, ghosting).
Scrolling white text on black background is still bad for the eyes, even on OLED.
I presume if you really want to see it and are not able to see it with rapid eye movement, turning on the BFI feature will make it much more pronounced. Someone can test this as I returned my second unit already.Do you have a method to show this red "phosphor decay" ? I took photographs of a white text on black background while scrolling aggressively (both vertically and horizontally) and I cannot see any evident artifact (fringing, ghosting).
Scrolling white text on black background is still bad for the eyes, even on OLED.
It would seem their version of BFI is not twisting the pixel to the off (black) state, but rather relying on the backlight being off and thus "black", although red in this case. I presume many monitors dont switch the pixels due to the response time not being fast enough.I *am* susceptible to rainbow effects with DLP's and, yes, I do see artifacts on this monitor when using their implementation of BFI (aim stabilizer sync).
They are compatible with your description (red ghost image on the left of white vertical lines displayed on a black background and while rapidly moving the eyes).
I now remember checking that option and disabling it right away because of discomfort.
But I do not see RBE's when it is turned off. I cannot see any the difference with my other 4k IPS.
Maybe they did not use an actual black frame for the BFI on the M32U?