Best Linux distro.. "best"..

[KarsusTG]

Yup, welcome to the other side.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I'm a noobie with Linux also, but I did find one version that I liked: Zorin.http://zorinos.com/gallery.html
One of their options includes the desktop: make it look like XP or Win 7.
I installed it on one of my spare rigs with no issues. Installed Office 2003 with no issues. Seems like this may be a good alternative to windows, as I have no desire to upgrade to 10.

Welcome over! Now there's one I'd never heard of before!

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Hardware, yes support is better, although I have had more driver issues under Windows than I have under Linux [gasp!].

Software, sorry, not a chance.

Fact is, Libre Office is a viable alternative to Office for many when you consider the compatibility issues surrounding various versions of office itself. And Windows is by far very prone to malware/spyware and virus issues due to poor design of the OS itself.

And this is the Linux/BSD forum and you are undoubtedly biased towards Windows.

Meh,

LibreOffice is great, but if you work with people who use MS Office, and have to trade files with them there WILL be formatting issues.

This is not necessarily the Fault of LibreOffice. Ms Office formats shouldn't be a universal standard, but they are treated as such. Such are the realities of the marketplace today.

You can USUALLY find free open source work-a-likes for most software in Linux. Some of them are great, others not so much.

For a user that is used to buying any brand name software of their choice and simply installing it, this WILL feel like a severe limitation. They don't want Gimp. They want Adobe Photoshop / Lightroom, etc. etc.

Most of use who use Linux have gotten used to the work-a-likes to the point where they are not a problem, but to those who haven't, this software limitation is HUGE.

The contrast is even more stark when it comes to games. Most titles are never ported to linux, and when they are they are usually shoddy ports based on statically compiled Wine API wrappers and DX to OpenGL wrappers. I have yet to see a major title that is a native Linux title.

Some say: Not a problem, just use Wine.

IMHO Wine is the biggest piece of garbage ever created. Impossible to configure right, and with performance issues even when it does work.

For me, the frustrations of installing and configuring Wine were bad enough that I was happier just installing a Windows dual boot for when I want to play games.

For everything else I am perfectly happy with Linux.

 

[auntjemima]

For me, the frustrations of installing and configuring Wine were bad enough that I was happier just installing a Windows dual boot for when I want to play games.

For everything else I am perfectly happy with Linux.

This perfectly sums up Linux, imo.

 

[B00nie]

I also use windows for games. But that's all I use it for.

 

[AltTabbins]

I was going through this thread when I noticed this point, a point I hadn't noticed before.

As stated, I run a business and I use Linux and Libreoffice for most of my business needs, and as of yet I have never once had company 'X' ask me for a Word .docx file, never. Files are always exported to .PDF and attached to emails in pdf format. This is done due to compatibility issues with not only Libreoffice but also between various versions of MS Office, it is also done as .pdf files are considerably smaller in size and therefore work better with the limitations placed on most corporate email servers.

So Libreoffice or MS Office, send the file in the correct format and first impressions will never be an issue.

It still happens. When I was applying for jobs, there were several that only accepted docx files. No pdf, no doc, no txt. If it wasn't docx, it wouldn't even let you upload the file. This was frustrating because at the time I was using my Macbook Pro with Open Office.

 

[auntjemima]

OpenOffice allows docx...

I suppose it may not have with the version you had.. or at all at that time.

 

[AltTabbins]

OpenOffice allows docx...

I suppose it may not have with the version you had.. or at all at that time.

I should have worded my post differently, the file format wasn't the issue it was that when I would save as a docx, it would screw up the formatting. On a resume, having a line off screws up the entire document. It would do the same the other way around too if I opened a docx and converted it to an odf format. I didn't notice until I sent in my resume to 3-4 places at the time. It was very frustrating. This isn't really a bash on Linux, the problem wasn't with the OS.

 

[auntjemima]

Oh, I'm not an angry linux backer. HOW DARE YOU!!

lolol.. So I wasn't worried about bashing

That said, I have found that locating an already created docx file first and then erasing its content and putting your own removed my formatting issues.. almost like Libre doesnt create the file properly initially. Its weird.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I should have worded my post differently, the file format wasn't the issue it was that when I would save as a docx, it would screw up the formatting. On a resume, having a line off screws up the entire document. It would do the same the other way around too if I opened a docx and converted it to an odf format. I didn't notice until I sent in my resume to 3-4 places at the time. It was very frustrating. This isn't really a bash on Linux, the problem wasn't with the OS.

Yeah,

It's neither the OS or LibreOffice fault that people hold them to the impossible standard of keeping perfect compatibility with a 3rd parties closed document format. Ms office formats should never have become the standard, but they have

At the same time, when people look at your resume, and there is a line break in the wrong place, or formatting is screwed up even very slightly, it sends the wrong first impression, of someone who is sloppy and lacks attention to detail. It is simply not acceptable.

Most of the time I am fine with LibreOffice, but on the rare occasion I need to maintain perfect compatibility with Ms. Office, there is no substitute to firing up the real thing in my Windows Guest in VirtualBox. Sucks that I have to do that, but it's only once in a blue moon.

 

[heatlesssun]

Yeah,

It's neither the OS or LibreOffice fault that people hold them to the impossible standard of keeping perfect compatibility with a 3rd parties closed document format.

OOXML isn't a closed format, it's an ECMA and ISO standard.

 

[flu!d]

It still happens. When I was applying for jobs, there were several that only accepted docx files. No pdf, no doc, no txt. If it wasn't docx, it wouldn't even let you upload the file. This was frustrating because at the time I was using my Macbook Pro with Open Office.

I wouldn't go for the job or I'd ask if I could email the information through.

Docx means anyone can edit your information and do as they like with it.

PDF or nothing at all - Time for these companies to get out of the past. It's like the massive over use of spreadsheets in situations that don't require them in corporate circles.

 

[Frobozz]

OOXML isn't a closed format, it's an ECMA and ISO standard.

https://brattahlid.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/is-docx-really-an-open-standard/

That's a fairly accurate portrayal of events as I remember them progressing. Microsoft's heavy handedness and manipulation during the creation of the OOXML was a common headline around the likes of Slashdot during those years. Like with the web (Hello,IE!), it sounds like it's down to implementation differences and a certain corporation's product just has dominance so they could be as sloppy or tight as they care to be.

Most of my day to day activities do not involve flinging around documents and if I do, then formatting is very low on my GAS meter such that I don't give it much of a thought. So, I won't claim to have a current real world opinion on the topic.

Needless to say, if you're doing something important to you that you needs to behave a certain way then you need to use the right tool for the job to ensure the desired outcome. - It's one thing if you're just communicating information, but if the showmanship is a factor then it's really on you to double-check. Even if you create your Powerpoint on MS Office and are going to present it on a machine of the same specs and version, it's only prudent to do a run though BEFORE you're standing in front of everyone. Same would apply if everything was Libre.

 

[heatlesssun]

https://brattahlid.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/is-docx-really-an-open-standard/

That's a fairly accurate portrayal of events as I remember them progressing. Microsoft's heavy handedness and manipulation during the creation of the OOXML was a common headline around the likes of Slashdot during those years. Like with the web (Hello,IE!), it sounds like it's down to implementation differences and a certain corporation's product just has dominance so they could be as sloppy or tight as they care to be.

Most of my day to day activities do not involve flinging around documents and if I do, then formatting is very low on my GAS meter such that I don't give it much of a thought. So, I won't claim to have a current real world opinion on the topic.

Needless to say, if you're doing something important to you that you needs to behave a certain way then you need to use the right tool for the job to ensure the desired outcome. - It's one thing if you're just communicating information, but if the showmanship is a factor then it's really on you to double-check. Even if you create your Powerpoint on MS Office and are going to present it on a machine of the same specs and version, it's only prudent to do a run though BEFORE you're standing in front of everyone. Same would apply if everything was Libre.

From the article that you mention:

Anyway in the meanwhile, please save your documents in ODF when you use Microsoft Office.

Even when you do this there's a possibility that a feature supported in Officer doesn't carry over. Ink is an example. Office will persistent ink even in ODF format but LibreOffice has no concept of the feature.

 

[Frobozz]

From the article that you mention:



Even when you do this there's a possibility that a feature supported in Officer doesn't carry over. Ink is an example. Office will persistent ink even in ODF format but LibreOffice has no concept of the feature.

Getting off into things I don't know or care to look up to attempt to argue one way or another, but ... Is Ink data part of the spec for ODF, or something extra that Microsoft tacked on to extend the format?

It could be the coolest feature in the world, but if one group does their own thing while the others follow the letter of the specification, then differences are going to show and there's really no point to the specification. :-/

 

[heatlesssun]

Getting off into things I don't know or care to look up to attempt to argue one way or another, but ... Is Ink data part of the spec for ODF, or something extra that Microsoft tacked on to extend the format?

It could be the coolest feature in the world, but if one group does their own thing while the others follow the letter of the specification, then differences are going to show and there's really no point to the specification. :-/

Ink in Office predates OOXML and ODF so unless the feature was dropped clearly any new file format would have to support it. That was probably part of the issue that Microsoft had with the standards process, clearly Microsoft would want existing Office features supported in any standard format. Others would have less of an interest to see that.

Still there's just features that don't come over from LibreOffice. Something as simple as rotating an image at angle isn't supported in LibreOffice, that can't possibly have anything to do with standards or file formats.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I wouldn't go for the job or I'd ask if I could email the information through.

Docx means anyone can edit your information and do as they like with it.

PDF or nothing at all - Time for these companies to get out of the past. It's like the massive over use of spreadsheets in situations that don't require them in corporate circles.

IN my industry most placements are via recruiter.

The recruiters only accept editable formats, as they want to fit them into their templates, change the headers to their agencies header, etc. etc.

If you in with a PDF only mentality, you just won't get placed

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Getting off into things I don't know or care to look up to attempt to argue one way or another, but ... Is Ink data part of the spec for ODF, or something extra that Microsoft tacked on to extend the format?

It could be the coolest feature in the world, but if one group does their own thing while the others follow the letter of the specification, then differences are going to show and there's really no point to the specification. :-/

I've been using spreadsheets on a practically daily basis for almost 20 years, and less frequently for another 5 years before that, since I first discovered Lotus 1-2-3... I've never heard of INK

 

[heatlesssun]

I've been using spreadsheets on a practically daily basis for almost 20 years, and less frequently for another 5 years before that, since I first discovered Lotus 1-2-3... I've never heard of INK

Office has supported digital ink since Office 2003 to add support for Windows XP Tablet PCs. I'm not saying that it's a commonly used feature but there are more devices than ever than do support ink input with the iPad Pro being one of the latest.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Office has supported digital ink since Office 2003 to add support for Windows XP Tablet PCs. I'm not saying that it's a commonly used feature but there are more devices than ever than do support ink input with the iPad Pro being one of the latest.

What IS digital Ink?

 

[heatlesssun]

Basically you can write on Word, Excel, PowerPoint documents like marking up paper.

 

[Frobozz]

Still there's just features that don't come over from LibreOffice. Something as simple as rotating an image at angle isn't supported in LibreOffice, that can't possibly have anything to do with standards or file formats.

That's very valid.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Basically you can write on Word, Excel, PowerPoint documents like marking up paper.

That sounds atrocious. The beauty of computers is that you are forced into text, so it is structured, translatable, modifiable, etc. Once you turn computers into pen and paper you give up decades of progress in forced standardization.

Major dislike.

The fact that computers don't depend on hand writing (or doing anything by hand at all) is what makes them great. You can abstract it to the pixel by pixel level, or keep everything in ASCII format.

This just obfuscates things, and I have a rather visceral and immediate hate for it.

 

[flu!d]

Basically you can write on Word, Excel, PowerPoint documents like marking up paper.

So...It's MS Paint?

Because I'm fairly certain I could do the same thing in paint.

 

[flu!d]

IN my industry most placements are via recruiter.

The recruiters only accept editable formats, as they want to fit them into their templates, change the headers to their agencies header, etc. etc.

If you in with a PDF only mentality, you just won't get placed

Ok, that makes sense.

What you will usually find is that documents made in LibreOffice and saved in docx will almost always open fine in Word, the issue usually arises on documents that were typed up in Word and saved as docx and opened on Libre - And it's usually a formatting issue due to very minor font differences.

The fact remains that Office should not be used as any form of standard.

 

[B00nie]

Office has supported digital ink since Office 2003 to add support for Windows XP Tablet PCs. I'm not saying that it's a commonly used feature but there are more devices than ever than do support ink input with the iPad Pro being one of the latest.

Where I come from people who play with styluses and tablets get frowned upon lol.

 

[B00nie]

IN my industry most placements are via recruiter.

The recruiters only accept editable formats, as they want to fit them into their templates, change the headers to their agencies header, etc. etc.

If you in with a PDF only mentality, you just won't get placed

If the recruiter is so jam handed that he can't attach a PDF to his presentation and modify it, the recruiters boss needs a better recruiter to find him a new recruiter.

 

[auntjemima]

So...It's MS Paint?

Because I'm fairly certain I could do the same thing in paint.

Beat me to it lol

 

[heatlesssun]

That sounds atrocious. The beauty of computers is that you are forced into text, so it is structured, translatable, modifiable, etc. Once you turn computers into pen and paper you give up decades of progress in forced standardization.

Major dislike.

The fact that computers don't depend on hand writing (or doing anything by hand at all) is what makes them great. You can abstract it to the pixel by pixel level, or keep everything in ASCII format.

This just obfuscates things, and I have a rather visceral and immediate hate for it.

All things that can be digital will have a digital form. Pens and ink are not replacements for other forms of input just as a keyboard and doesn't replace ink. Highlighting and annotating are more natural to many using a pen. Drawing and free form note taking particularly if it involves symbols like math and science are tasks difficult to achieve with a keyboard and mouse only.

The misconception that pens are a replacement for high speed text entry is slowly fading as more pen enabled devices come around and more ink aware applications are developed because such applications didn't make since in a keyboard and mouse only world. On quality about ink in OneNote, handwriting is searchable just like text without conversion. And it can be mixed with text, images, video, audio and even arbitrary files.

Again, options and choice, things that many bemoan Microsoft taking away. It would seem that choice is only good to some if its the choice they want. That's not exactly choice. If text entry with a keyboard doesn't work well for the task it's better to have other methods.

So...It's MS Paint?

Because I'm fairly certain I could do the same thing in paint.

Except this was a Word document and capability that it's had for over a decade on Windows.

 

[flu!d]

All things that can be digital will have a digital form. Pens and ink are not replacements for other forms of input just as a keyboard and doesn't replace ink. Highlighting and annotating are more natural to many using a pen. Drawing and free form note taking particularly if it involves symbols like math and science are tasks difficult to achieve with a keyboard and mouse only.

The misconception that pens are a replacement for high speed text entry is slowly fading as more pen enabled devices come around and more ink aware applications are developed because such applications didn't make since in a keyboard and mouse only world. On quality about ink in OneNote, handwriting is searchable just like text without conversion. And it can be mixed with text, images, video, audio and even arbitrary files.

Again, options and choice, things that many bemoan Microsoft taking away. It would seem that choice is only good to some if its the choice they want. That's not exactly choice. If text entry with a keyboard doesn't work well for the task it's better to have other methods.



Except this was a Word document and capability that it's had for over a decade on Windows.

So it's MS paint...For Word....

It's been out for over a decade, I've actually got it and I didn't even know - Doesn't sound like much of a selling point for MS products for me?

It's strange, I agree with Steve Jobs when he said "If you have to use a stylus to operate it, they've failed" - And I hated Steve Jobs.

 

[heatlesssun]

So it's MS paint...For Word....

It's been out for over a decade, I've actually got it and I didn't even know - Doesn't sound like much of a selling point for MS products for me?

It's strange, I agree with Steve Jobs when he said "If you have to use a stylus to operate it, they've failed" - And I hated Steve Jobs.

I don't think anyone is familiar with every capability of every program nor uses them all. There are more devices than ever with pens (or pencils) including Apple's latest and greatest iPad so even if you aren't using this tech millions of others are. Interesting how you're advocating alternative software while simultaneously advocating conformity. Choice is more than about picking which updates to install. Windows certainly lacks lots of low level OS choice unlike Linux but when it comes to tools it offers a great deal of choice.

 

[flu!d]

I don't see the point in Apples latest ipad pro...

Including a case it's heavy, may as well use a laptop.

It's still using iOS, which I barely class as an Operating System, it's basically just as 'app launcher'. In comparison my Nexus 9 is every bit as versatile as my PC, I can literally do everything on it.

The large screen is fragile.

It's stupidly expensive.

It comes with a stylus...

I can't see it having much of a market I'm afraid.

 

[heatlesssun]

There are others wondering the same thing about the iPad Pro. However I do think that having pen technology on a tablet of this size is a must if it is to have any professional appeal. Whatever one may think of digital pens the tech has been around for a long time and the better devices with them command good money.

I use pens all of the time. I'll personally never buy another laptop or tablet, nothing that's not cheap anyway, without this capability. I know that's niche, but then so is desktop Linux. Just because a lot of people don't find value in something doesn't mean anything to those that do.

Ultimately that's what these kinds of debates are. Linux advocates value the OS and the ability to customize it and make it their own. People like me value tools. To me an OS is no better than the tools it supports. There's no point in valuing an OS if the tools aren't there. And telling people that they don't need certain tools is a tough argument to make when they use them constantly.

 

[flu!d]

I don't just value Linux due to it's ability to customise the operating system as I please.

Linux is the better operating system - Period.

You can accept that, you can try to come up with thin rebuttals, the fact remains that Linux is the better operating system in comparison to Windows. It's more secure by design (something MS has tried to copy), it's more productive by design, and it's leaner and faster by design.

Certain software may suit you better under Windows than Linux, in other scenarios another person may find that certain software under Linux is more suitable for them in comparison to Windows, and then in another scenario all together another individual may find that all the software they use is available on both platforms - By no means at all does that indicate than Windows is the better operating system overall nor does it indicate that support under Windows is any better than support under Linux simply because Windows is the costly alternative.

What it means is that, through no more than forced marketing, Windows is the more popular operating system due solely to the fact that it is sold on almost every boxed, brand name desktop computing device sold - And for that reason, and that reason alone, it's familiarity with the consumer makes it the more accepted alternative.

We all know that PC usage is on the decline, and people attribute this to a number of factors. I attribute this to Microsoft's inability to listen to their customers in relation to the short fallings and privacy issues of Windows 8/8.1 and 10 and the seemingly incurable virus and malware issues surrounding their more popular, less secure operating system - Steering consumers away from desktop computing for the sake of privacy, reliability and the ability to use a tablet based OS where it belongs - On a tablet.

As stated in the past, I've been using Linux for a number of years now and never before have I seen the surge in popularity, evidenced in public forums, for the operating system and such an increase in any form of gaming title let alone AAA titles as a result of Valve's push to steer gaming away from what was, up until now, the only viable PC operating system. While it would be a bold claim to assume 'this is going to be the year of Linux', and I would never make such an assumption, I think I can confidently claim that Linux's popularity is going to start increasing faster than ever before as a result of third party adoption and Microsoft's blind arrogance.

Mind you, due to the fact that Linux is downloaded from a number of unaccountable sources for free and passed on from user to user means this uptake is going to be difficult to measure statistically, meaning Windows users are going to continue to deny the popularity of the operating system in the same way they have in the past while Microsoft continues to slip $$ out of the consumers back pocket while doing their best to monopolize the market place with their products.

 

[B00nie]

There are others wondering the same thing about the iPad Pro. However I do think that having pen technology on a tablet of this size is a must if it is to have any professional appeal. Whatever one may think of digital pens the tech has been around for a long time and the better devices with them command good money.

I use pens all of the time. I'll personally never buy another laptop or tablet, nothing that's not cheap anyway, without this capability. I know that's niche, but then so is desktop Linux. Just because a lot of people don't find value in something doesn't mean anything to those that do.

Ultimately that's what these kinds of debates are. Linux advocates value the OS and the ability to customize it and make it their own. People like me value tools. To me an OS is no better than the tools it supports. There's no point in valuing an OS if the tools aren't there. And telling people that they don't need certain tools is a tough argument to make when they use them constantly.

Your problem seems to be that you think that world concentrates on your own belly. I can say with certainty that your personal needs do not represent the needs of an average user - so this is a /thread as far as that's concerned.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I don't just value Linux due to it's ability to customise the operating system as I please.

Linux is the better operating system - Period.

You can accept that, you can try to come up with thin rebuttals, the fact remains that Linux is the better operating system in comparison to Windows. It's more secure by design (something MS has tried to copy), it's more productive by design, and it's leaner and faster by design.

Certain software may suit you better under Windows than Linux, in other scenarios another person may find that certain software under Linux is more suitable for them in comparison to Windows, and then in another scenario all together another individual may find that all the software they use is available on both platforms - By no means at all does that indicate than Windows is the better operating system overall nor does it indicate that support under Windows is any better than support under Linux simply because Windows is the costly alternative.

While I mostly agree, you can't just dismiss the near universal hardware and software compatibility.

The best operating system in the world will be useless to you if it won't run an your hardware, or or can't run the software you need.

If Valve is successful in getting developers to start offering Linux versions in droves, if Adobe starts offering all their software in native Linux versions, and if Ms Office is offered in a native version (forget Wine/Crossover office, I'm talking real native) then this will start to go away, but until then denying that there is a real and significant gap here between Linux and Windows is being willfully blind.

For most people open source work-a-likes are NOT OK, and will never be OK. They want (and feel they need) the real Adobe/Office/Minitab/whatever and NOTHING else will do.

This is the reason I still dual boot for games, and have a VirtualBox guest for the times I need to run something Windows based. (like for instance, the WMWare ESXi client which only comes in a Windows version. There is a web interface to manage ESXi boxes, but only if you have the paid ESXi which is more expensive than any home hobbyist can pay for)

Hardware support is also a real problem. With windows just about any hardware you can find you can isn't all a driver for, and it will work. My HTPC's still crash/hang occasionally in Kodi due to the fact that my late 2013 Haswell Celeron 2955u integrated graphics still in the latest kernels and with the latest Intel drivers has problems, especially when it comes to hardware accelerated deinterlacing, decoding and scaling of video content..

I'll say it again. You could offer the "Jesus operating system", and if it doesn't run the software a user needs on the hardware they have, it is useless to them.

What it means is that, through no more than forced marketing, Windows is the more popular operating system due solely to the fact that it is sold on almost every boxed, brand name desktop computing device sold - And for that reason, and that reason alone, it's familiarity with the consumer makes it the more accepted alternative.

I'd say it has more of a chicken/egg problem.

In order for more people to adopt Linux they need guarantees that their software will run on it and their hardware will be supported. In order for vendors to take Linux seriously and make their software for it and write their hardware drivers for it they need to see a larger user base.

Familiarity has very little to do with it IMHO.

Even I, who am sold on the open source work-a-likes have reasons to reboot or use VM's more often than I'd like. Mass adoption won't occur until 100% of peoples software runs as well on Linux as it does in Windows. When every title in their Steam library is ported (and ported well) with the same mouse feel and graphics settings as in Windows.

The average user will not under any circumstance put up with having to dual boot. Simply won't happen.

We all know that PC usage is on the decline

No we don't. PC usage has stagnated, but not declined. There are about as many people using PC's now as there were 10-15 years ago. it has mostly just flatlined.

Two things have happened though: Mobile has been growing very fast, so as a percentage of users PC's have declined, but that doesn't mean that PC usage overall has declined. SALES have also gone down a bit, but that is more because average users haven't had a reason to upgrade in a decade.

, and people attribute this to a number of factors. I attribute this to Microsoft's inability to listen to their customers in relation to the short fallings and privacy issues of Windows 8/8.1 and 10 and the seemingly incurable virus and malware issues surrounding their more popular, less secure operating system - Steering consumers away from desktop computing for the sake of privacy, reliability and the ability to use a tablet based OS where it belongs - On a tablet.

I don't think this has anything to do with it at all.

I've heard people on tech forums complain about 8 and 10 (and boy have we complained), but average users seem to just bumble on with Windows regardless of the version. They might not be a huge fan of the transition to 10 from 7, but its close enough for them, and it's not going to make them stop using their computers.

As stated in the past, I've been using Linux for a number of years now and never before have I seen the surge in popularity, evidenced in public forums

So have I. I installed Linux for the first time in the mid to early 90's when a slackware disk came on the front of a PC gaming mag. At the time I wasn't impressed, and reinstalled DOS and didn't touch it again until about 2001 when I started setting up game servers, and briefly ran Read Hat 7.3 Valhalla on my desktop. (this was before Fedora existed) I hated the RPM package manager, and instead Switched to Gentoo for the next 5-6 years, which is where I really cut my teeth (because it forces you to, or at least did back then). When I got tired of the constant maintenance involved with Gentoo I went to Ubuntu in ~'06/07 and eventually transitioned to Mint Cinnamon edition when Ubuntu went all "Unity".

Personally, I haven't noticed any increase in activity in Linux forums as of late. To me it feels mostly the same as it has for the last 15 years or so. If anything, I feel the Ubuntu forums used to be more active and helpful back when I first started using it in 2006.

Mind you, due to the fact that Linux is downloaded from a number of unaccountable sources for free and passed on from user to user means this uptake is going to be difficult to measure statistically, meaning Windows users are going to continue to deny the popularity of the operating system in the same way they have in the past while Microsoft continues to slip $$ out of the consumers back pocket while doing their best to monopolize the market place with their products.

Two words: Browser Stats.

Based on most I can find, Linux has been mostly stable for the last decade fluctuating from about one to two percent of users.

There might have been a slight increase, but it's tough to tell because of the variability and noise compared to the relatively small figure.

I would LOVE to see Linux grow in popularity, I just don't think it's happening en masse as you suggest right now, and I very much doubt it will in the near future.

Valves push is great, but every single title I have played is more stable, runs higher frame rates, runs smoother, has better mouse feel, better graphics settings, etc. etc. in Windows, and most titles still don't have a Linux version at all, so you have to resort to Wine if you are dead set on playing games in Linux, and Wine is a goddamned disaster, IMHO. Impossible to configure right. I'd much rather dual boot than deal with all these drawbacks.

Until we see near universal software availability and near universal hardware compatibility (THAT WORKS ON LAUNCH DAY) I don't think we will see Linux grow very fast.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it. I've been through the "This is the year for Desktop Linux" claims too many times. I feel it is likely to stay in the 1-2% user range for the foreseeable future, and I'm OK with that. I'm happy with it the way it is.

 

[flu!d]

While I mostly agree, you can't just dismiss the near universal hardware and software compatibility.

The best operating system in the world will be useless to you if it won't run an your hardware, or or can't run the software you need.

If Valve is successful in getting developers to start offering Linux versions in droves, if Adobe starts offering all their software in native Linux versions, and if Ms Office is offered in a native version (forget Wine/Crossover office, I'm talking real native) then this will start to go away, but until then denying that there is a real and significant gap here between Linux and Windows is being willfully blind.

For most people open source work-a-likes are NOT OK, and will never be OK. They want (and feel they need) the real Adobe/Office/Minitab/whatever and NOTHING else will do.

I have had more hardware compatibility issues Under Windows than I have under Linux. As perfectly good hardware ages, manufacturer driver support for newer releases of Windows becomes thinner and as a result hardware can, and does, become more of an issue. The USB 3.0 ports on my ASUS Maximus IV Extreme Z are just one of the recent issues I've had that springs to mind.

And I disagree, with the exception of a niche few professionals who are dependant on Windows and it's associated, expensive, software; the open source look alikes work just fine and will achieve everything they want and need - As an example, as an amateur photographer and someone that needs software to resize, crop and add layers to images for my various online business needs I found Gimp to actually work better than Photoshop - In my scenario.

Hardware support is also a real problem. With windows just about any hardware you can find you can isn't all a driver for, and it will work. My HTPC's still crash/hang occasionally in Kodi due to the fact that my late 2013 Haswell Celeron 2955u integrated graphics still in the latest kernels and with the latest Intel drivers has problems, especially when it comes to hardware accelerated deinterlacing, decoding and scaling of video content..

See above, Only a few years ago I was experiencing the exact same issues you are describing on my HTPC running Windows. When it comes to HTPC's there always seems to be a compromise, Windows is no exception here - In fact I find Windows a shocking base for HTPC application due to numerous stability issues in every HTPC build I have ever had. Nothing more frustrating than restarting the HTPC to get it to recognise a Bluray, for example.

I'll say it again. You could offer the "Jesus operating system", and if it doesn't run the software a user needs on the hardware they have, it is useless to them.

I never disputed this fact.

I'd say it has more of a chicken/egg problem.

In order for more people to adopt Linux they need guarantees that their software will run on it and their hardware will be supported. In order for vendors to take Linux seriously and make their software for it and write their hardware drivers for it they need to see a larger user base.

Familiarity has very little to do with it IMHO.

IMHO, as someone who works in the PC repair/IT field, I come across people all the time that are totally fed up with Windows and it's associated infection and stability issues and are more than willing to try something else. After careful discussion I image their Windows install, reformat and install Linux Mint, and in literally every instance the next time I see the customer they are wrapped with how well their PC is running.

The only reason they ran Windows was solely due to the fact that it came pre installed on their PC and they didn't know there was alternatives available that don't suffer from the infection issues that Windows is notorious for.

I use Linux Mint on customer's machines due to the similarity to Windows, I find customers adjust easier when the new OS is familiar to their old operating system.

Even I, who am sold on the open source work-a-likes have reasons to reboot or use VM's more often than I'd like. Mass adoption won't occur until 100% of peoples software runs as well on Linux as it does in Windows. When every title in their Steam library is ported (and ported well) with the same mouse feel and graphics settings as in Windows.

Some software runs better under Linux, some software runs better under Windows, some software may even run better under OSX or may be more suitable to a portable device (MS Edge is a good example of this), I never disputed otherwise.

The average user will not under any circumstance put up with having to dual boot. Simply won't happen.

Totally agreed.

No we don't. PC usage has stagnated, but not declined. There are about as many people using PC's now as there were 10-15 years ago. it has mostly just flatlined.

Two things have happened though: Mobile has been growing very fast, so as a percentage of users PC's have declined, but that doesn't mean that PC usage overall has declined. SALES have also gone down a bit, but that is more because average users haven't had a reason to upgrade in a decade.

The need to constantly upgrade mainly affects the power users, the average Joe, in most cases, is still running Core 2, some even Pentium 4. In my experience, people are fed up with the issues surrounding desktop Windows systems and switch to mobile devices as they're so much easier with far less hassle.

So have I. I installed Linux for the first time in the mid to early 90's when a slackware disk came on the front of a PC gaming mag. At the time I wasn't impressed, and reinstalled DOS and didn't touch it again until about 2001 when I started setting up game servers, and briefly ran Read Hat 7.3 Valhalla on my desktop. (this was before Fedora existed) I hated the RPM package manager, and instead Switched to Gentoo for the next 5-6 years, which is where I really cut my teeth (because it forces you to, or at least did back then). When I got tired of the constant maintenance involved with Gentoo I went to Ubuntu in ~'06/07 and eventually transitioned to Mint Cinnamon edition when Ubuntu went all "Unity".

I've used Arch, the instillation went fine due to excellent documentation, but getting it up and running the way I liked was comparable to reinstalling and getting a Windows PC up and running and back up to the way you like with all settings and software packages reinstalled - Which is time consuming and mostly painful. Linux Mint, Ubuntu and derivatives are my preferred distro's now as everything just works.

Personally, I haven't noticed any increase in activity in Linux forums as of late. To me it feels mostly the same as it has for the last 15 years or so. If anything, I feel the Ubuntu forums used to be more active and helpful back when I first started using it in 2006.

Personal opinion I suppose? I honestly believe the community is more active.

Two words: Browser Stats.

Browser stats are unreliable at the best of times, a short Google search will confirm this. Even Valve's own statistics are questionable at times.

Valves push is great, but every single title I have played is more stable, runs higher frame rates, runs smoother, has better mouse feel, better graphics settings, etc. etc. in Windows, and most titles still don't have a Linux version at all, so you have to resort to Wine if you are dead set on playing games in Linux, and Wine is a goddamned disaster, IMHO. Impossible to configure right. I'd much rather dual boot than deal with all these drawbacks.

I haven't found this to be an issue, even in CS:GO, I don't find the mouse to be an issue, perhaps I'm not hardcore enough. I actually find many of my games to run faster under Linux. I don't use Wine at all.

Until we see near universal software availability and near universal hardware compatibility (THAT WORKS ON LAUNCH DAY) I don't think we will see Linux grow very fast.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it. I've been through the "This is the year for Desktop Linux" claims too many times. I feel it is likely to stay in the 1-2% user range for the foreseeable future, and I'm OK with that. I'm happy with it the way it is.

As stated, Windows has hardware issues also, and I would never state that this is going to be the year of Linux.

 

[heatlesssun]

Your problem seems to be that you think that world concentrates on your own belly. I can say with certainty that your personal needs do not represent the needs of an average user - so this is a /thread as far as that's concerned.

I doubt the average user cares much about desktop Linux. For that matter even Windows. But they do care about what they can do with their computers and what kind of computers they can buy.

 

[ccman]

I doubt the average user cares much about desktop Linux. For that matter even Windows. But they do care about what they can do with their computers and what kind of computers they can buy.

Ha! This coming from the same guy who said users DO care about Windows because of the of its vast ecosystem (which I take means software available for the platform, despite beginning with eco-, which mostly relates to ecology or the environment).

 

[ccman]

IMG removed

Basically you can write on Word, Excel, PowerPoint documents like marking up paper.

LOL. The "not a Microsoft shill, I swear" even uses Microsoft to upload images to the web to host on forums (Image hosted by LiveFileStore, which surprisingly isn't named SkyDriveFileStore, no wait OneDriveFileStore, no wait WindowsMeshFileStore).