Hardware Canucks maybe, but please don't send on to Tek Syndicate. Can't stand them at all. They are often wrong in so many ways. Saying stuff to just please their crowd.
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NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)
- Thread starter wahaha360
- Start date
Hardware Canucks maybe, but please don't send on to Tek Syndicate. Can't stand them at all. They are often wrong in so many ways. Saying stuff to just please their crowd.
Phuncz
2[H]4U
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So you were right: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1040671947#post1040671947
Necere,
Please use better quality clips in the future, I'm glad I bought 8 from Lian-Li as I broke another two just from routing a 2x22AWG cable around them. I still don't know how that caused them to snap in half....
On a more pleasant note, congrats on the sale of the final units and good luck with the v2 optimizations.
Please use better quality clips in the future, I'm glad I bought 8 from Lian-Li as I broke another two just from routing a 2x22AWG cable around them. I still don't know how that caused them to snap in half....
On a more pleasant note, congrats on the sale of the final units and good luck with the v2 optimizations.
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commander_
Limp Gawd
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Hardware Canucks of course! In-depth reviews.
Tek Syndicate, as much as I love them, I feel HCs would be better for reviewing.
Wouldn't hurt sending to both though! I'd love to see what Logan and Wendell thinks of it.
The most thorough case reviews in my experience come from Tom @ TTL/OC3D, but he hasn't really ever tackled a truly tiny mITX case that I can recall. He had a lot of input in regards to the design of the Bitfenix Prodigy, but as we know that thing is a monolith compared to our beloved M1s.
I'd echo HWC as another great choice though, they manage to pack plenty of detail in a short vid review. Dmitry's camera work is excellent too (which you kind of need when viewing a black case on camera). It helps to give viewers a true sense of what they are getting into, without physically holding the item in their possession.
I'd echo HWC as another great choice though, they manage to pack plenty of detail in a short vid review. Dmitry's camera work is excellent too (which you kind of need when viewing a black case on camera). It helps to give viewers a true sense of what they are getting into, without physically holding the item in their possession.
Does anyone know if an ATX PSU of the following dimensions would fit in the M1?
150 mm (W) x 86 mm (H) x 160 mm (D)
And if so, would I still be able to fit 2 SSDs along the front inside of the panel along with the ATX? I'm not sure if having two stacked together would interfere with mounting the ATX itself... thanks!
I have a short video card, so I can afford the psu going out a little further I think, but my main worry is whether I would still be able to stack two SSD's together without it getting in the way of the PSU.
150 mm (W) x 86 mm (H) x 160 mm (D)
And if so, would I still be able to fit 2 SSDs along the front inside of the panel along with the ATX? I'm not sure if having two stacked together would interfere with mounting the ATX itself... thanks!
I have a short video card, so I can afford the psu going out a little further I think, but my main worry is whether I would still be able to stack two SSD's together without it getting in the way of the PSU.
Agreed!
Not sure about the SSDs, but how short is your GPU? If your GPU doesn't extend much further past the motherboard, you can probably get by with a full size ATX PSU. When my case arrives (I purchased during the leftover inventory sale), I'll find out whether a Zotac GTX 660 that is 7.5 inches or so will fit with an ATX PSU that is around 160 mm
Second
If you are not using ODD you can put 2 ssds there
AFD
2[H]4U
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Don't think the M1 revision is going to be drastic enough changes to warrant a separate thread, just minor improvements. I'm sure over 90% of the information here will still be helpful to those buying the M1 v2. The revision discussions right now aren't much different than the first 100 pages of this thread, just a continuation of sorts.
I'm sure Necere & W360 will decide upon that soon enough, depending upon the changes made.. it's their baby, so whatever works for them. Besides, this thread has been "muddled" many times before.. just enjoy the ride
PSU is fine as long as the GPU is under 200mm. Only one SSD on the inside front with ATX PSU, unfortunately. This is one of those things I'm looking at remedying with rev 2. Should only require an update to the ATX bracket.
I don't think we need a new thread for improvements. We're already kind of dominating this section of the forum. You guys'll just have to suffer through it for a few pages.
any chance that bracket would work with the rev 1?
Yeah, most likely. Don't really want to change more than necessary, and the top rails (where the bracket attaches) probably won't change.
One suggestion for rev2:
check if feasible to allow move motherboard down. So we can choose to use 3 slots or just slots 2 and 3.
Main reason: allow modular atx psu with long (not so long) gpu
This flexibility may allow to have gpu getting fresh air from bottom without extra fans and may allow to use one or two fans on top pushing warm air out of the case
check if feasible to allow move motherboard down. So we can choose to use 3 slots or just slots 2 and 3.
Main reason: allow modular atx psu with long (not so long) gpu
This flexibility may allow to have gpu getting fresh air from bottom without extra fans and may allow to use one or two fans on top pushing warm air out of the case
Quick question: Anyone know where I can buy an extra set of HDD mounting screws? (the ones with the rubber bits on them)
I only got one set and i'd like to try and mount a second (2.5") drive in another place instead of just mounting it above the existing one.
I only got one set and i'd like to try and mount a second (2.5") drive in another place instead of just mounting it above the existing one.
That's interesting because it may also allow some top-down air coolers to point upwards and still doesn't hit the top of the case.
An interesting idea, Would essentially require motherboard standoffs that could be removed. The current ones are part of the aluminium frame and are the most space efficient way, as well as being the strongest way.
Removable ones could use screw tapped holes in the frame, but this is at the cost of a few mm thickness, and the risk of stripping the threads in the frame as it is a weaker aluminium if people over tighten (as has been done by some already)
Alternatively, a tapped spacer, and countersunk screw on the other side could work. This should reduce the risk of stripping, while providing the flexibility. Comes down to the thickness of the spacer (again adding a few mm to what it is now), and having short screws. A compromise between minimum comfortable screw lengths and how much space this will eat up.
The benefits I see are really only increased ATX PSU support, which can be appreciated for the smaller percentage who want to use an ATX PSU, and the option to add that extra bit of thickness for top panel exhaust fans.
With sufficient positive pressure, I can see the top fans as helpful, but not being absolutely necessary. Mounting these fans also needs to be sorted, as its not quite complete to allow the motherboard to move, but not provide a mounting for the top fans. Without adding much to the design, double sided tape to the inside of the top panel seems the first way to DIY it, but there is always the fear that it may eventually fall off.
An interesting concept, but it does need a bit of compromise to achieve this flexibility. Possibly a little too weak on the pros/cons comparison to be worth doing?? Wonder if Necere has any ways around this.
adamantium
Limp Gawd
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My suggestions for revision 2:
- Solve the thread stripping problem. I know Lian Li doesn't do thicker, but maybe they can reconsider. If not possible, then do the stamped threaded inserts or soldered nuts to prevent stripping threads, especially on the side panel. I haven't stripped any yet, but repeated assembling and disassembling wears out the soft threads. There aren't that many threads to begin with given the thin gauge aluminum. I would prefer stamped threaded inserts (steel or brass), and thicker aluminum would be nice.
- Twice as many black M4 screws for mounting things on the side bracket, with low profile pan head tops and no more than 4-5mm length. This will prevent the counter-sunk screws from deforming the screw slots on the side bracket, and since most are mounting radiators on the side, 4-5mm is about the max length that can be used.
- Allow the HDD cage to be used with the side bracket in the upper position. You just need to notch it out where it hits the side panel clip. There shouldn't be any integrity problems with the change.
- Move the back fan and tubing holes down 1 or two millimeters to prove better clearance between radiator and compression fittings on the inside.
- Consider providing a small front mounting bracket for SFX PSUs in addition to (or instead of) the ATX PSU bracket.
- Eliminate the top screw. Maybe you can fold a lip off the back panel for lifting so that the top does not bear the weight.
- Consider gold feet and gold plugs in front for the black model.
If you decide to increase the dimensions at all for side and top panel rigidity, then please reconsider a 4th slot and mATX mounting with SFX PSU in front. The upcoming SFX PSU should be plenty for most configurations in a box this size.
- Solve the thread stripping problem. I know Lian Li doesn't do thicker, but maybe they can reconsider. If not possible, then do the stamped threaded inserts or soldered nuts to prevent stripping threads, especially on the side panel. I haven't stripped any yet, but repeated assembling and disassembling wears out the soft threads. There aren't that many threads to begin with given the thin gauge aluminum. I would prefer stamped threaded inserts (steel or brass), and thicker aluminum would be nice.
- Twice as many black M4 screws for mounting things on the side bracket, with low profile pan head tops and no more than 4-5mm length. This will prevent the counter-sunk screws from deforming the screw slots on the side bracket, and since most are mounting radiators on the side, 4-5mm is about the max length that can be used.
- Allow the HDD cage to be used with the side bracket in the upper position. You just need to notch it out where it hits the side panel clip. There shouldn't be any integrity problems with the change.
- Move the back fan and tubing holes down 1 or two millimeters to prove better clearance between radiator and compression fittings on the inside.
- Consider providing a small front mounting bracket for SFX PSUs in addition to (or instead of) the ATX PSU bracket.
- Eliminate the top screw. Maybe you can fold a lip off the back panel for lifting so that the top does not bear the weight.
- Consider gold feet and gold plugs in front for the black model.
If you decide to increase the dimensions at all for side and top panel rigidity, then please reconsider a 4th slot and mATX mounting with SFX PSU in front. The upcoming SFX PSU should be plenty for most configurations in a box this size.
vipz
Gawd
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One could achieve that with a removable 2-slot mobo tray, at the cost of not having a regular mounting solution for that 3rd slot.
I second threaded inserts if possible. The thread stripping problem is just the nature of the beast. Steel bolts in aluminium will damage threads when over tightning, no matter the thickness. Once they are damaged they will quickly strip further with use. I do some tapping in aluminium myself and it's really delicate work.
4th slot would be nice for additional height to allow for slightly better harddrive placement options, but might add too much to the height of the system.
wahaha360
Gawd
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I should be getting spare plastic clips and screws from Lian Li next week. Will make an update.
I actually rather keep it 2 slot but the current setup with 3 slots is a nice compromise
Revision 2, you say?
Aside from having more m3 screws in the box, here are some things that I'd like to see:
1. 3.5in HDD mount for the case bottom in front (not middle or rear). This avoids the issue of the drive physically blocking the fan of the short GPUs. And frees up the side cage for water cooling.
2. Better mounting slots for the side cage. Currently they are rectangular slots and last I checked my screws were round. What about overlapping circles? It loses a bit of variability but make up in stability (I think).
3. Simpler front I/O mounting for easier removal?
Aside from having more m3 screws in the box, here are some things that I'd like to see:
1. 3.5in HDD mount for the case bottom in front (not middle or rear). This avoids the issue of the drive physically blocking the fan of the short GPUs. And frees up the side cage for water cooling.
2. Better mounting slots for the side cage. Currently they are rectangular slots and last I checked my screws were round. What about overlapping circles? It loses a bit of variability but make up in stability (I think).
3. Simpler front I/O mounting for easier removal?
insomfloyd
n00b
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I hope there will be a ncase m1 side-window version, though it will cause some cooling issue.
We talked about this early on. You guys have missed the fact that it wouldn't just require removable standoffs, but in actuality the entire rear I/O cutout and slot openings would need to be mobilized, which just isn't feasible with the current design.
I will ask about threaded inserts for the side bracket. At the very least, I think I can get slightly thicker aluminum for the small piece that the bracket screws to at the front.
This shouldn't be a problem.
The increase I was considering would be limited to 10mm extra height at the top of the case, above the motherboard, so a 4th slot isn't in the cards. A full mATX motherboard (244x244mm) wouldn't fit anyway, even with the SFX PSU right up against the inside front. Depth would need to increase ~10mm as well, and that's not something I'm considering.
This is problematic because the 120mm fan screw holes would be in the way of the drive mount holes at the front. The 120m fan holes can't be moved at all otherwise they run into the feet. Things are the way they are for a reason. I could look at maybe designing a bracket to hold the drive that mounts to the 120mm fan mounts, but I don't know how feasible that is.
Well, the variability is important in allowing various radiators, or combinations of radiators/fans/drive bracket to fit. They are rectangular simply because those parts are cut on the NCT, which don't do inside radii (apparently).
How often do you remove it? It's six screws to remove the whole thing, so I mean... it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. It's a bit complex partly because we had to use generic modules for the USB, audio, and power, and use small brackets to hold them.
I did initially ask about a custom plastic enclosure for the I/O module, but was told it would be prohibitively expensive to do. But of course, that's when we were looking at a 300 unit order. Things like that do become more viable as you scale up. Using a piecemeal approach has the advantage of allowing small adjustments to be made though, whereas having tooling/molds made essentially commits you to one course, due to the huge financial investment required. That makes me nervous, as you might imagine, as someone with zero experience in that area.
IncubusBob
n00b
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Since some folks are making suggestions for V2. I thought I would chip in my two cents. Frankly the case is extremely well designed so I am having to dig pretty deep here I can only think of two things that I don't like with the current design.
1) I don't like the NCASE badge on the front. There's already a badge on the back, I'd rather have nothing on the front.
2) The front audio jacks are kind of mushy. There is no discernible click or snapping into place when you insert a plug, as on every other audio port I have used.
I can only think of two things that I don't like with the current design. 1) I don't like the NCASE badge on the front. There's already a badge on the back, I'd rather have nothing on the front.
2) The front audio jacks are kind of mushy. There is no discernible click or snapping into place when you insert a plug, as on every other audio port I have used.
MikeTheTiger
Weaksauce
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I finally finished putting this rig together. I had issues bleeding air out of my loop and had CPU temps around 100C at idle. With the advice of the Swiftech rep on the H220 thread on OCN, I was able to expel the remaining air bubbles and get my temps down to around 36-40C at idle. I had a frustrating time working out the temp problems and at one point I was going to junk the H220 pump altogether. The only regrets I have with this build is that I had to literally cram everything into the tiny confines of the NCase M1 (I'm not complaining...I love this case!!) and put physical stress on the GTX 770. I have temporarily propped it up with an old iphone stand I had lying around. I plan on getting a backplate for the 770 and if that doesn't work, the fittings may be replaced and tubing shortened (again).
drklu
2[H]4U
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Nice work on the build Mike. I thing maybe going with a standalone pump may be the better option for me. The only one I'm finding that would work the best is a Laing DDC-1T. I will probably opt for this one because the ones with the newer style top have a vertical port which may interfere with the cable's or gpu. Looking at that picture though it almost seems like either would work. I would like it to be pwm though so I can adjust its speed but if the DDC-1T is quiet as is I may just opt for that and forget about pwm. Also, there is a few other models of the DDC-1T with higher gph. I'm not thinking that would be necessary and may be louder than the lower model I linked above. Anyone have any insight on these pumps in regard to noise level and if pwm is ever necessary?
Rev 2. Recommendations:
1.The motherboard tray opening needs to be adjusted to allow access to the rear of asrock motherboard's backplate.
2.The top panel, in my opinion, does not require the screw, it would look much cleaner without it and I would be able to tear the case down in seconds.
3.Removal of non-useful screws and duplicates of useful screws. Tooless would be better if they had appropriate style thumbscrew replacements.
1.The motherboard tray opening needs to be adjusted to allow access to the rear of asrock motherboard's backplate.
2.The top panel, in my opinion, does not require the screw, it would look much cleaner without it and I would be able to tear the case down in seconds.
3.Removal of non-useful screws and duplicates of useful screws. Tooless would be better if they had appropriate style thumbscrew replacements.
Already on the list.
Can you identify which screws are useful/non-useful?
Depending on your build, it's possible to use every single one of a specific screw type (minus the extra), so there are no redundant screws per se. Note that the SSD mounting screw ('E') count will be increased in rev 2.
Also, where do you see the possibility for thumbscrews?
Nice. What are your load temps?
Thanks again Necere for the involvement. Much appreciated and glad to see Ver.2 could possibly be in the works ("NCASE M1.2"?), I might have to convince my uncle to get one.
2. and 3. were just thrown out there, they aren't really important at all. You really did think about everything.
As for number 1. Regarding the hdd "bracket": could it be as simple as making an aluminum sheet that will bridge the 120mm screw holes, with mounting positions on it for the hdd? Food for thought, no need for reply (if it can be done on the cheap, I'm sure you would implement it in Ver.2)
2. and 3. were just thrown out there, they aren't really important at all. You really did think about everything.
As for number 1. Regarding the hdd "bracket": could it be as simple as making an aluminum sheet that will bridge the 120mm screw holes, with mounting positions on it for the hdd? Food for thought, no need for reply (if it can be done on the cheap, I'm sure you would implement it in Ver.2)
i really like that idea too. for me the 3rd slot is useless, but at the same time i have a modular atx psu i really wished i could have used.
i forgot those types existed
but yes, thats actually the main reason i disliked the thinner panels. The first time i removed them I was terrified i'd warp them from just the pressure i was applying to pop them off
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commander_
Limp Gawd
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- Aug 24, 2013
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Just finished putting everything together and I have no idea how to work my slot load drive (UJ8C5).
How do you insert discs? Mine doesn't take them in... it just tries to eject all the time.
How do you insert discs? Mine doesn't take them in... it just tries to eject all the time.
MikeTheTiger
Weaksauce
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Thanks! Haven't tortured it yet. I did play Assassin's Creed IV for about 1/2 hour. I think both CPU and GPU were in the 60's.
adamantium
Limp Gawd
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That is a good one. I have noticed the same and forgot about it. My back panel audio snaps in cleanly, the front does not. It feels like the plug just doesn't go in far enough.
Also maybe there is room for a reset switch in front? Reset header disenfranchised?
Maybe not worth the cost.