Upgrade to IvyBridge?

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surfsk8snow.jah

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Hey all, I'm parting together a new build for the winter - my current rig will be 4yo - and am now looking at CPUs.
A quick search on the next release from Intel shows the IvyBridge, and a bit of research shows that they should be backwards compatible for current LGA1155 socket (especially including that certain mobo manufacturers have begun advertising their current boards as IvyBridge compatible).
So, my plan is to purchase a medium end i5-2500k for now for the build, which will be still amazing in and of itself, then trade that in (sell it back) and purchase a new 'higher end' IvyBridge offering, seeing as they're estimating a minimum 20% performance increase per clock over SandyBridge.

Any insight into the true feasibility of this request?

I'm also deciding between the Intel P67 and Z68 chipsets - I have yet to begin my research on this - but which of these will be better overall, as well as most likely compatible with IvyBridge?
Thanks!
 
there have been some es benchmarks done with ivy bridge and it appears its not gaining much. the leaks have been comparing against the i3 sandys and it seems like a side grade. the performance is only a few percent not anywhere neat the twenty percent that has been speculated on. think of it as a die shrink with a (hopefully) fixed gpu.if it can playback 27fps blueray without the current jerking issue than its a win for me even if its a side grade.
 
mrbigshot said:
there have been some es benchmarks done with ivy bridge and it appears its not gaining much. the leaks have been comparing against the i3 sandys and it seems like a side grade. the performance is only a few percent not anywhere neat the twenty percent that has been speculated on. think of it as a die shrink with a (hopefully) fixed gpu.if it can playback 27fps blueray without the current jerking issue than its a win for me even if its a side grade.
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To which leaks are you referring?
 
My advice: Wait a little longer (1-2 months). Any info now is either questionable leaks or guesswork.
 
The Ivy Bridge performance per-clock is not expected to be higher (the core is mostly a straight shrink of Sandy). There is some expectation of higher clock speeds due to Intel's brand-new process technology, but you can't make any assumptions about that.

The biggest upgrade on Ivy will be the GPU.

My suggestion: either buy the 2500k now or wait for Ivy. Do not buy the 2500k with the expectation that you will upgrade: surely a 4.5 GHz overclock will be enough to satisfy anyone?
 
well if i purchase without the outlook for upgrade, I'll being getting i7-2600k. But I was just thinking that since 2500k will at that point only be about a year old, it will resale very well, and I will be able to have an ivy bridge for little true extra cost over the i7.
What do you mean the GPU will be upgraded on Ivy?
 
Ivy brings unlocked pcie 3.0 and better gpu performance, other than that stock a few percent, but overclockability on shipping samples who knows. Maybe they'll overclock to 5.5 ghz or something.
 
Ivy Bridge is coming soon, but let's not forget Bulldozer. Not sure how it'll stack up against Sandy/Ivy for price/performance, but the wait may bring good things for builders who can wait a bit.
 
The 2500k itself is a significant upgrade, so it certainly wouldn't hurt to make that upgrade now and start taking advantage of the performance. Then you can afford to be choosy when Ivy Bridge does come out, and either make a move that way (likely on the same motherboard) or just stick with the 2500K.

As for P67 vs Z68, unless there is a significant price penalty just go with the Z68, since it is basically a P67+.
 
2500K if you want a long term upgrade now, i3-2100 if you want a filler until IB.

And get a mobo with Z68 and PCI-e 3.0, as it will undoubtedly give you all the goodies now whether you decide to go SB or IB.
 
DejaWiz said:
2500K if you want a long term upgrade now, i3-2100 if you want a filler until IB.

And get a mobo with Z68 and PCI-e 3.0, as it will undoubtedly give you all the goodies now whether you decide to go SB or IB.
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P67 can unlock pcie 3.0 as well, as evident by Gigabytes announcement yesterday that bios F5 on the P67 series unlocks pcie 3.0 and ivy bridge support.
 
Sebastianem said:
Ivy Bridge is coming soon, but let's not forget Bulldozer. Not sure how it'll stack up against Sandy/Ivy for price/performance, but the wait may bring good things for builders who can wait a bit.
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This is a good point, only from the standpoint that Intel will definitely reduce prices to compete. Bulldozer slated for Sept 19th.
The build is at least a month out anyway, so I've got time to watch it all go. Just beginning the research process now.
 
BD is surely to disappoint, watch and see. Not a troll post whatsoever, love AMD, but come on.....it's had many issues and nothing released indicates it's going to mop floor.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
BD is surely to disappoint, watch and see. Not a troll post whatsoever, love AMD, but come on.....it's had many issues and nothing released indicates it's going to mop floor.
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it could mop the floor with intel's current cpus and not releasing info is called "strategy".

not releasing info gives amd a jump when it does release giving them a window where they have the fastest cpu's at the $300 or so price point until intel can get ivy bridge out the door. the sooner intel knows what they are dealing with the sooner ivy bridge would come out since they have intentionally delayed ivy bridge due to lack of competition and to help out thier retail partner move existing stock of intels current lineup.

delaying releasing info on bulldozer until the very last minute is smart to give them the longest window of being at the top.

its the same thing EA is doing with SWTOR not releasing a release date to avoid blizzard from planning too far ahead of time to have content releases or marketing blitz at the same time as the release date of swtor.

in this case that blizzard content patch would be intels ivy bridge.


now im not saying bulldozer is going to be better than the 2600k all im saying is its smart for amd to delay info aslong as possible from competition standpoint.

why give your opponent a heads up early wether you a weaker or stronger you should always keep them gussing until after you strike.
 
Is ivy supposed to be pnp with 1155? That is what I understand. But anyways im waiting on 2011 or to see what Bulldozer can do.

I just want to rid my self of this nf200 chip and get a real quad xfire platform with real physical lanes 8x8x8x8/ Is ivy going to support more lanes? I dont know if it could since the lanes are hard wired into the board right?
 
tangoseal said:
Is ivy supposed to be pnp with 1155? That is what I understand. But anyways im waiting on 2011 or to see what Bulldozer can do.

I just want to rid my self of this nf200 chip and get a real quad xfire platform with real physical lanes 8x8x8x8/ Is ivy going to support more lanes? I dont know if it could since the lanes are hard wired into the board right?
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the lanes are tied to the cpu, but alot of board might only wire to a certain extent.

but id assume if ivy had 32 lanes a z68 or p67 that had 2 16x slots even tho they only work at 8x with sandy would be able to do 16x16 if ivy 1155 had more lanes but it wont. it will still have only 16 lanes. if you want 8x8x8x8 you will need a 890 or 990 chip set or wait till 2011 from intel
 
off topic - i havent been keeping up with the latest and greatest. i have an i7 950 @ 4500ish in an evga sli3. the only thing i do that puts any stress on my machine is gaming. so will ivy bridge be an upgrade for me? is it time to leave s1366? i usually dont buy the $1000 cpu's, but other than that, cost isnt a big factor.
 
Shouldn't TDP per clock be significantly lower with 22nm over 33nm? Not to mention the more efficient transistors?
 
So much bad information and advice in this thread. Here's a thought stop asking about products that aren't out and have no official benchmarks. Also seems like quite a few of you are forgetting about tri-gate.
 
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Define who is giving bad information. I know i'm not. Ivy Bridge when paired with certain (one being Gigabyte) and the right bios, will net you pcie 3.0.
 
What about 2011 & SNB-E (8C/16T :D)? A bit more expensive but hopefully available soon wiith possibly better upgrading options available later on.
 
CPL0 said:
What about 2011 & SNB-E (8C/16T :D)? A bit more expensive but hopefully available soon wiith possibly better upgrading options available later on.
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Exactly, 8 cores = worth the wait for ivy
 
ShuttleLuv said:
Define who is giving bad information. I know i'm not. Ivy Bridge when paired with certain (one being Gigabyte) and the right bios, will net you pcie 3.0.
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" other than that stock a few percent" , you said this.


You don't know this, you and everyone else shouldn't be saying things like this based on some leaked information for all we know isn't true. The way you are portaying this information is what I have a problem with. If it was just a die shrink then that would be one thing, but it's not.
 
surfsk8snow.jah said:
What do you mean the GPU will be upgraded on Ivy?
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The integrated GPU is supposed to be about twice as fast on Ivy Bridge (moving from 12 to 16 cores, and an expected clock boost as well). It should also support DirectX 11.

Expect performance to be close to Llano.

If you plan on using your own discrete GPU, then obviously you don't care. And since the integrated GPU is the only major improvement in Ivy Bridge, there's not much of an upgrade path there.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
P67 can unlock pcie 3.0 as well, as evident by Gigabytes announcement yesterday that bios F5 on the P67 series unlocks pcie 3.0 and ivy bridge support.
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Yeah, the 16 lanes of PCIe that come right off the chip should have no trouble supporting this kind of upgrade. HOWEVER, the support for PCIe 3.0 has to be designed into the motherboard from the beginning - you can't just flip a switch and just hope and pray it works. Gigabyte likely designed their motherboards to PCIe 3.0 spec, but then declined to advertise it due to a lack of real PCIe 3.0 parts to test against. Validation of their motherboard designs today with real parts means they can unlock it after the fact.

Hopefully other motherboard manufacturers did the same thing as Gigabyte, and Socket 1155 will offer unprecedented expandability:D
 
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defaultluser said:
The integrated GPU is supposed to be about twice as fast on Ivy Bridge (moving from 12 to 16 cores, and an expected clock boost as well). It should also support DirectX 11.

Expect performance to be close to Llano.

If you plan on using your own discrete GPU, then obviously you don't care. And since the integrated GPU is the only major improvement in Ivy Bridge, there's not much of an upgrade path there.
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again not true, tri-gate

"For years we have seen limits to how small transistors can get," said Gordon E. Moore. "This change in the basic structure is a truly revolutionary approach, and one that should allow Moore's Law, and the historic pace of innovation, to continue." - Gordon E. Moore

"Intel's scientists and engineers have once again reinvented the transistor, this time utilizing the third dimension. Amazing, world-shaping devices will be created from this capability as we advance Moore’s Law into new realms." - Paul Otellini, Intel President and CEO

"The performance gains and power savings of Intel's unique 3-D Tri-Gate transistors are like nothing we've seen before. This milestone is going further than simply keeping up with Moore's Law. The low-voltage and low-power benefits far exceed what we typically see from one process generation to the next. It will give product designers the flexibility to make current devices smarter and wholly new ones possible. We believe this breakthrough will extend Intel's lead even further over the rest of the semiconductor industry." - Mark Bohr, Intel Senior Fellow


so are they just all full of shit?
 
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defaultluser said:
Yeah, the 16 lanes of PCIe that come right off the chip should have no trouble supporting this kind of upgrade. HOWEVER, the support for PCIe 3.0 has to be designed into the motherboard from the beginning - you can't just flip a switch and just hope and pray it works. Gigabyte likely designed their motherboards to PCIe 3.0 spec, but then declined to advertise it due to a lack of real PCIe 3.0 parts to test against. Validation of their motherboard designs today with real parts means they can unlock it after the fact.

Hopefully other motherboard manufacturers did the same thing as Gigabyte, and Socket 1155 will offer unprecedented expandability:D
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I never said I didnt understand that, I'm talking Gigabyte and that happens to be the board I own. I don't care about any other brand or persons board.
 
butterfliesrpretty said:
so are they just all full of shit?
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I've already mentioned Trigate:

There is some expectation of higher clock speeds due to Intel's brand-new process technology, but you can't make any assumptions about that
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And I stand by what I said about it. Intel's last process reduction only reduced power by about %25, and only pushed overclocking frequencies by around say 500 MHz. This new process may blow the pants off everything that came before it, or it could be another disappointment. Since there are no other major core improvements, you're solely dependent on the clock speed gambit.

This is why I state: make no assumptions. Sandy bridge quad cores are already very low-power and very overclockable, so why is the Ivy bump important?
 
doink said:
off topic - i havent been keeping up with the latest and greatest. i have an i7 950 @ 4500ish in an evga sli3. the only thing i do that puts any stress on my machine is gaming. so will ivy bridge be an upgrade for me? is it time to leave s1366? i usually dont buy the $1000 cpu's, but other than that, cost isnt a big factor.
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No with that setup your good for at least the next 6 months without looking anywhere.
 
defaultluser said:
I've already mentioned Trigate:



And I stand by what I said about it. Intel's last process reduction only reduced power by about %25, and only pushed overclocking frequencies by around say 500 MHz. This new process may blow the pants off everything that came before it, or it could be another disappointment. Since there are no other major core improvements, you're solely dependent on the clock speed gambit.

This is why I state: make no assumptions. Sandy bridge quad cores are already very low-power and very overclockable, so why is the Ivy bump important?
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They also clearly stated that this technology will improve performance not just lower power and increase clocks.
 
butterfliesrpretty said:
They also clearly stated that this technology will improve performance not just lower power and increase clocks.
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Do you realize what you just posted?

Increasing performance requires one of two things: higher frequency or higher IPC/core counts. IPC/core increase requires a core revamp. Ivy Bridge will just be a die shrink of Sandy Bridge, so there IS NO IPC INCREASE. Without an IPC increase, your only possibility for "improved performance" is higher clock speeds.

Why are you pretending there's a difference here between increased clocks and increased performance?

The benefits of Trigate will have to wait for the release party to be thoroughly judged, since you can't get a clear idea of the process from less-than-optimal test samples.
 
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defaultluser said:
Do you realize what you just posted?

Increasing performance requires one of two things: higher frequency or higher IPC/core counts. IPC/core increase requires a core revamp. Ivy Bridge will just be a die shrink of Sandy Bridge, so there IS NO IPC INCREASE. Without an IPC increase, your only possibility for "improved performance" is higher clock speeds.

Why are you pretending there's a difference here between increased clocks and increased performance?

The benefits of Trigate will have to wait for the release party to be thoroughly judged, since you can't get a clear idea of the process from less-than-optimal test samples.
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Lol why am I pretending there's a difference increased clocks and increased performance? That statement is so ridiculous it doesn't even deserve an answer.

You have no idea what you're talking about. IPC is not the only thing that effects performance per clock, this is common knowledge.
 
CPL0 said:
What about 2011 & SNB-E (8C/16T :D)? A bit more expensive but hopefully available soon wiith possibly better upgrading options available later on.
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yes socket 2011 looks good but current word is that there will not be any 8 core processors at release for desktop variant - only 6 and 4 core parts.
 
Yes but there will be an ivy bridge for the socket 2011
And socket 2011 will certainly have 8+ cores in the roadmap

How that for adding confusion. :D
 
defaultluser said:
And I stand by what I said about it. Intel's last process reduction only reduced power by about %25, and only pushed overclocking frequencies by around say 500 MHz

This is why I state: make no assumptions. Sandy bridge quad cores are already very low-power and very overclockable, so why is the Ivy bump important?
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defaultluser, you've made some very informative posts. I will state this: I feel that a 25% reduction in power going from 45nm to 32nm (a shrink of 29%) while increasing clock speeds is a great accomplishment.

Example 1:
i5-750S Quad Lynnfield 2.4GHz 45nm 82W TDP
i5-2405S Quad Sandy Bridge 2.5/3.3GHz 32nm 65W TDP

TDP Reduction = 21%
Clock Freq Increase = 4% (27% w/ TB)


Example 2:
i5-750 Quad Lynnfield 2.66GHz 45nm 95W TDP
i5-2400 Quad Sandy Bridge 3.1/3.4GHz 32nm 95W TDP

TDP Reduction = 0%
Clock Freq Increase = 14% (22% w/ TB)


We can all see a huge difference in TDP with the low-power models, but hardly an increase in clock frequency (not counting turbo boost).

With the standard power models, there's no difference in TDP at all, but a heck of a jump in clock frequency (again, TB not accounted for).

Throw in the TB, and the frequency gain is pretty damn significant with both low and standard power models over the 45nm parts.

Another thing I find absolutely kick ass are the Sandy Bridge oc'ing results being posted on air cooling!

The thing I'm most looking forward to about IB is another reduction in power draw (and less heat generation) while maintaining or increasing stock clock frequencies in comparison to SB. Any throughput increases clock-for-clock is just an added bonus!
 
tlc4tvm said:
Yes but there will be an ivy bridge for the socket 2011
And socket 2011 will certainly have 8+ cores in the roadmap
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100% agree.

i was only referring to 1155 IB.
IB-E should be rollin in at least 8 cores for sure
 
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