Worse Load Temps on EK 360MM AIO than Noctua NH-U14S

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edo101

Limp Gawd
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Hi guys

I made the earlier thread asking about how to mount an AIO properly. I have a 10850K that I was able to push to 5.0Ghz on air, on the NH-14s. My temps in stress tests never went past 91C. And I ran these tests for a while. Excited and based on feedback I got on 3 different forums including this one, I was told an AIO was the way to go. I have never had any form of water cooling ever. I decided to try it and spend money on what reviews like Gamer NExus deem the best AIO along with the AF II series CLCs which I bought but never used because they don't have a fill port and come with only 2 year waranty as opposed to EK's 5 year warranty

Anyways the block came with a preapplied paste evenly spread to its surface but I scaped it off to use Kryonaut since it's been a good paste. First attempts I got these temps:
kryonaut.PNG


These were unnacceptable to me as these temps except for the lowest temped cores were about the same or worse than the NH-14s. So I took off the cooler and this was what I saw:
takingoffAIO.PNG


Therfore I unmounted and applied the paste that comes with the cooler as I ran out Kryonaut after using it on two other coolers. So i reapplied with the EK paste to this:
newapplication.PNG


And then remounted. My temps are now worse:
tempsafter.PNG

I mean I know that good air coolers often compete with AIOs but check the reviews on this EK 360MM dRGB. It's supposed to be one the best 3 you can get. So it makes no sense I should be getting worse temps than my air cooler NH-14s which isn't even the DH-15
 
232w heheh, impressive. Betcha it goes higher! :D

D14 is a really good cooler. Its fans were weak.. but the cooler is awesome. I bet if you put better fans on it you would see a difference. Check out some TY-143s.. Nice and quiet until they spool up. 130cfm.. and 17 bucks on Amazon.. I'm debating on picking up a couple more, or if I want to go with something like this instead:

The TL-D14X.. not as strong, or loud. 100CFM is still pretty decent, especially at 30db.

Thermalright TL C14X TL D14 140mm CPU cooling fan PWM Quiet 12cm fan pitch Industrial grade fan 4PIN PWM mute fans cpu cooler|Fans & Cooling| - AliExpress
 
freeagentt said:
232w heheh, impressive. Betcha it goes higher! :D

D14 is a really good cooler. Its fans were weak.. but the cooler is awesome. I bet if you put better fans on it you would see a difference. Check out some TY-143s.. Nice and quiet until they spool up. 130cfm.. and 17 bucks on Amazon.. I'm debating on picking up a couple more, or if I want to go with something like this instead:

The TL-D14X.. not as strong, or loud. 100CFM is still pretty decent, especially at 30db.

Thermalright TL C14X TL D14 140mm CPU cooling fan PWM Quiet 12cm fan pitch Industrial grade fan 4PIN PWM mute fans cpu cooler|Fans & Cooling| - AliExpress
Click to expand...
Yeah for the supposed little brother of the D15, it really kicks butt. I have the D-15 as well which I haven't opened... it looks bulky as hell but I might resort to it, and used the best air cooler ever and forget the rest. It's just annoying to mount these giant heatsinksnow. especially with the massive VRM coolers these mobos come with. But this AIO performance with the noise of 3 120mm fans spinning is too much
 
edo101 said:
Yeah for the supposed little brother of the D15, it really kicks butt. I have the D-15 as well which I haven't opened... it looks bulky as hell but I might resort to it, and used the best air cooler ever and forget the rest. It's just annoying to mount these giant heatsinksnow. especially with the massive VRM coolers these mobos come with. But this AIO performance with the noise of 3 120mm fans spinning is too much
Click to expand...
I can only give info about the D-15 on an i7 7700k. I installed a spare one on my sons i7 and when running cpu intensive DC programs, it never hit 50. Was regularly at 20ish when idle, 33 max when gaming. I was very very impressed.
 
edo101 said:
Yeah for the supposed little brother of the D15, it really kicks butt. I have the D-15 as well which I haven't opened... it looks bulky as hell but I might resort to it, and used the best air cooler ever and forget the rest. It's just annoying to mount these giant heatsinksnow. especially with the massive VRM coolers these mobos come with. But this AIO performance with the noise of 3 120mm fans spinning is too much
Click to expand...
I think the D14 might be the stronger cooler.. D15 is tweaked a bit for compatibility and has stronger fans. I could be mistaken on that.. I haven't used a D15.

I read it on the internet :D
 
Make sure that whatever header you have the pump connected to it set to a fixed 100%
 
I definitely get better acoustics on load with the NH-14 than I do with 3 x 120mm fans spinning at 100%. Sadly my mobo won't let me not use 100% on critical temps. It just wont. And even at 60% these 3x120mm fans make a lot of noise pushing air through the radiator. I am not enjoying this AIO at all so far. I exepected better temps at a lower fan noise

waterpumpsettings.PNG


These settings below apply to the 3x120mm fans of the rad via a PWM splitter:
fanssettings.PNG


CPufancurve1.png
 
One thing to keep in mind is..

A lot of people, masses of people have never used a top end air cooler before. Usually something like stock to mediocre.. match that with piss poor case flow.. and then they spend on a nice CLC and next thing you know it is awesome, and they tell the world it’s awesome. Load temps are 25c lower and all that jazz. I’m sure you see what I’m getting at..

Also note mean time before failure ratings on fans and pump are meant for full speed operation, you won’t hurt anything.
 
Kind of makes me wonder if the plate on AIO isn't making great contact. The Noctua coolers are awesome, but I would expect a 360mm AIO to beat them.
 
Epos7 said:
Kind of makes me wonder if the plate on AIO isn't making great contact. The Noctua coolers are awesome, but I would expect a 360mm AIO to beat them.
Click to expand...

Configured properly with a good fan setup it should.
 
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Epos7 said:
Kind of makes me wonder if the plate on AIO isn't making great contact. The Noctua coolers are awesome, but I would expect a 360mm AIO to beat them.
Click to expand...
I have a feeling this might be the case. EK's mounting system especially the back bracket is not ideal. And the disparity between the cores 10 deg difference makes me think this could be the case. Along with the fact that the paste the first time I took it off was not evenly applied with pressure.
 
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If you don't hear liquid, no vibration from the pump or hum, hot temps sitting there, and reboots from intense heat also just sitting there
 
freeagentt said:
If you don't hear liquid, no vibration from the pump or hum, hot temps sitting there, and reboots from intense heat also just sitting there
Click to expand...
Oh ok. I don't hear the liquid or pump but the temps are low just sitting there.
 
What do your idle temps look like? If your idle temps are high that is another indicator of the block not making good contact. A 10 degree spread isnt a good sign either.
Does your mb have a pump header? If so is that the header your using?
Some mbs wont power the pump properly if its not plugged into the pump header, even when adjusted via the bios. Some default to 40% for some reason.
 
edo101 said:
Hi guys

I made the earlier thread asking about how to mount an AIO properly. I have a 10850K that I was able to push to 5.0Ghz on air, on the NH-14s. My temps in stress tests never went past 91C. And I ran these tests for a while. Excited and based on feedback I got on 3 different forums including this one, I was told an AIO was the way to go. I have never had any form of water cooling ever. I decided to try it and spend money on what reviews like Gamer NExus deem the best AIO along with the AF II series CLCs which I bought but never used because they don't have a fill port and come with only 2 year waranty as opposed to EK's 5 year warranty

Anyways the block came with a preapplied paste evenly spread to its surface but I scaped it off to use Kryonaut since it's been a good paste. First attempts I got these temps:
View attachment 319145

These were unnacceptable to me as these temps except for the lowest temped cores were about the same or worse than the NH-14s. So I took off the cooler and this was what I saw:
View attachment 319146

Therfore I unmounted and applied the paste that comes with the cooler as I ran out Kryonaut after using it on two other coolers. So i reapplied with the EK paste to this:
View attachment 319147

And then remounted. My temps are now worse:
View attachment 319148
I mean I know that good air coolers often compete with AIOs but check the reviews on this EK 360MM dRGB. It's supposed to be one the best 3 you can get. So it makes no sense I should be getting worse temps than my air cooler NH-14s which isn't even the DH-15
Click to expand...


Did you try putting some thermal paste in the socket?
I'm kidding. Do not do this.
 
Hi, in all honesty I would try mounting it another 2 times (first try *thin* line in the middle and after that, if temps are not to your liking, spread it as thinly as possible over whole cpu with spatula/credit card). That cross method used far, far to much thermal paste. At 225 watts I would expect bigger difference (are those temps after few minutes or ~ 1 hour of stress test? if its only after a few minutes something definitely not alright as water temperature would not have reached its max temperature for that thermal load). Also, did do you tighten cpu coolers screws enough (EK blocks are (were?) bowed so they need to be tightened quite well)?. In a case with good airflow I would expect at most 10-12 C difference between a good aircooler (D14) and balls to the wall watercooling system. Do you, by any chance, mount radiator as exhaust? It *will* increase temperature by at least 4-5 degrees.
 
Your first picture looks like a bad mount; the paste spread isn't even at all and the paste on the left looks like there isn't good pressure there. Do as Pabaisa says and re-paste then remount the block, paying special attention to the way you tighten it down. I don't know if the EK AIO mount has fixed mounting pressure or not (I'm guessing it does), but make sure you screw it down in an x-pattern a bit at a time for each screw and make it's as tight as you can make it all the way around.
 
Pabaisa said:
Hi, in all honesty I would try mounting it another 2 times (first try *thin* line in the middle and after that, if temps are not to your liking, spread it as thinly as possible over whole cpu with spatula/credit card). That cross method used far, far to much thermal paste. At 225 watts I would expect bigger difference (are those temps after few minutes or ~ 1 hour of stress test? if its only after a few minutes something definitely not alright as water temperature would not have reached its max temperature for that thermal load). Also, did do you tighten cpu coolers screws enough (EK blocks are (were?) bowed so they need to be tightened quite well)?. In a case with good airflow I would expect at most 10-12 C difference between a good aircooler (D14) and balls to the wall watercooling system. Do you, by any chance, mount radiator as exhaust? It *will* increase temperature by at least 4-5 degrees.
Click to expand...
I did top mounting because of my HDD cage. So yes the fan is pushing air through the radiator as an exhaust. the fans face the inside of the case and pull air from the case to push out as an exhaust through the top Pabaisa
 
hititnquitit said:
What do your idle temps look like? If your idle temps are high that is another indicator of the block not making good contact. A 10 degree spread isnt a good sign either.
Does your mb have a pump header? If so is that the header your using?
Some mbs wont power the pump properly if its not plugged into the pump header, even when adjusted via the bios. Some default to 40% for some reason.
Click to expand...
I am using my CPU fan 2 header which can be switched to WP mode. HWINFO and my bios show identical Pump "RPM" of 2600 which is 100% pump speed.

My temps are low on idle. 33 to 35C hititnquitit
 
hititnquitit said:
What do your idle temps look like? If your idle temps are high that is another indicator of the block not making good contact. A 10 degree spread isnt a good sign either.
Does your mb have a pump header? If so is that the header your using?
Some mbs wont power the pump properly if its not plugged into the pump header, even when adjusted via the bios. Some default to 40% for some reason.
Click to expand...
The pump header on my board looks fairly beefy, but I haven't seen one before. It could be a current supply issue.. My old CLC is powered by Molex, it had a sense pin for RPM but I don't think I've ever used it. I just ran the pump on high all the time and controlled the fans on my own and used the header to drive a fan or two elsewhere.
 
have you set your pump to full speed yet? why did you start a new thread?!
ps, you mount pressure doesnt look right, there too much paste left(its thick). you sure you used the right mounting parts?!
 
pendragon1 said:
have you set your pump to full speed yet? why did you start a new thread?!
ps, you mount pressure doesnt look right, there too much paste left(its thick). you sure you used the right mounting parts?!
Click to expand...
Yes pump is at 100% Can't hear it though. And I'm pretty sure I used the brackets named Intel. I will uninstall the whole thing this evening and try again. I made a new thread because one would think I was still asking about how to properly mount it. This is not the case
 
edo101 said:
Yes pump is at 100% Can't hear it though. And I'm pretty sure I used the brackets named Intel. I will uninstall the whole thing this evening and try again. I made a new thread because one would think I was still asking about how to properly mount it. This is not the case
Click to expand...
could have just edited the thread title. tear it apart and double check everything for the mount is correct. when you put it back together, make sure the screws are tightened down good and even. 'cause that first pic here looks like the mounting pressure isnt right. way more of the paste should have squeezed out and it looks like the right side was looser than then left.
 
paradoxical said:
Yes, but with a suspect mounting system like EK's this could be causing further issues.
Click to expand...
are they known to have mounting issues? i was just thinking the wrong hardware may have been used or its just not tightened down right.
 
Slapped on the DH-15 Chroma blackk and I am not looknig back. This EK AIO has wasted my precious time, caused me to accidentally bend some fan/LED pins which I bent back and all the unmounting and remounting left some tiny strips of paste in my CPU socket. thankfully it's not conductive. My temps still kinda high stress testing with Cinebench but they are way better now. Maybe the AIO as a whole is good but the one I got can't apply universal pressure across my time IHS at least so it seems whenever i unmounted it. I tried the dot, the line, the x and then pasting kryonaut evenly across my IHS. didn't make a difference.

My Temps with the D15 black initial runs of Cinebench:
initialD15cine.png


later runs of cinebench:
laterD15.png


I don't anticipate this getting hotter after all the stress testing. The most I do is gaming and video editing. And if it does when the weather gets warmer, I will just go down to a 4.8Ghz OC for video creation...assuming it generates heat. Looks like I'll keep sticking to air. I have no desire to try any CLCs that I can't refill or waste time getting another EK 360mm

Oh and the D15 is also quieter even at higher fan percentages. I need to crank them up to 95% when I hit 80s to see how cool they get. I think I only have the fans spinning at 75% at 80C.
 
Wow props to the D14! I haven't looked back after going to back to air either buddy. We are going against popular opinion right now, you do realize that, yes? Biggest difference you could make with your D14 is to put strong fans on it, if you are still using the originals.. they were a tad weak but obviously still working fine. Nice!
 
freeagentt said:
Wow props to the D14! I haven't looked back after going to back to air either buddy. We are going against popular opinion right now, you do realize that, yes? Biggest difference you could make with your D14 is to put strong fans on it, if you are still using the originals.. they were a tad weak but obviously still working fine. Nice!
Click to expand...
Yeah honestly the Nh-14 is awesome. The D15 is only slightly so better so I switched over to it. I'll return the NH-14 but that thing still competes with an AIO. At least in my case. Maybe the EK AIO is good and I got a bad one but I don't want to spend more time trying out coolers
 
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