Who else is waiting on Zen 4 x3D before upgrading?

yeah sadly. but damnit, all i want is a fully PCI 5.0 system that also has normal speaker outputs. Oh and doesnt cost $400

wtf amd. It's like you dont want anyone to buy your products
 
yeah sadly. but damnit, all i want is a fully PCI 5.0 system that also has normal speaker outputs. Oh and doesnt cost $400

wtf amd. It's like you dont want anyone to buy your products
What about this one?
1673619153562.png

Looks like it has all your old school analog audio outs on it

No 5.0 PCI-E 16X slot but... The cards don't even exist yet. 5.0 is pricey on AM5. Don't have to worry about that on Z790 ;)
 
damnnn. Thats money. I hate the mobo tiers. Like I get how E means PCI5 everything, but there are M and now Plus's. Like who made this up?

edit: I'll go explore that product range. Hopefully they have one with integrated Wifi too
 
damnnn. Thats money. I hate the mobo tiers. Like I get how E means PCI5 everything, but there are M and now Plus's. Like who made this up?

The dumbest thing is that the E means different things for 670 and 650. For 670, it simply means "premium" without being tied to a specific feature. For the 650's, the E means PCIE 5 graphics. The other things like I, M, etc. are specific to the manufacturer.
 
Curious, I remember reading that the 4090 doesnt even use up all of the bandwidth that PCI4 allows. Ergo, switching to PCI5 would be meaningless. Who cares if the speed limit is 200mph if your car can only go 80mph, right?

How exactly is this proven in its spec sheet. PCI4 is 32gb/s, and PCI5 is 64gb/s. Looking at TechPowerUp spec sheet of the 4090, the only gb/s mention is the memory clock, which runs at "21gbps effective". Although I do see memory is "1,008 gbps" which is way way more than the PCI4 or 5 max, so that clearly cant be the stat to look out.

What i'm trying to do is see where the past few generations of x7xx level cards are and try to extrapolate that into the future. Trying to see how quickly PCI4 will be obsolete and PCI5 will even matter

edit: for those wondering, memory clock:
2017 - 1080ti - 11gbps
2019 - 2080ti - 14gbps
2021 - 3080ti - 19gbps
2022 - 4090 - 23 gpbs

Assuming memory clock is the stat to look at, this trend shows that it took 5 years to increase 10gbps. Since the max of PCI4 is 32gb, and we are at 23, it may take another 5 years. At that point, AMD5 will very probably be EOL. And this isn't taking into account x7xx upper mainstream cards which are always slower, just the top halo ones.

Could it be that PCI5x16 is a lie??
 
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Curious, I remember reading that the 4090 doesnt even use up all of the bandwidth that PCI4 allows. Ergo, switching to PCI5 would be meaningless. Who cares if the speed limit is 200mph if your car can only go 80mph, right?

How exactly is this proven in its spec sheet. PCI4 is 32gb/s, and PCI5 is 64gb/s. Looking at TechPowerUp spec sheet of the 4090, the only gb/s mention is the memory clock, which runs at "21gbps effective". Although I do see memory is "1,008 gbps" which is way way more than the PCI4 or 5 max, so that clearly cant be the stat to look out.

What i'm trying to do is see where the past few generations of x7xx level cards are and try to extrapolate that into the future. Trying to see how quickly PCI4 will be obsolete and PCI5 will even matter

edit: for those wondering, memory clock:
2017 - 1080ti - 11gbps
2019 - 2080ti - 14gbps
2021 - 3080ti - 19gbps
2022 - 4090 - 23 gpbs

Assuming memory clock is the stat to look at, this trend shows that it took 5 years to increase 10gbps. Since the max of PCI4 is 32gb, and we are at 23, it may take another 5 years. At that point, AMD5 will very probably be EOL. And this isn't taking into account x7xx upper mainstream cards which are always slower, just the top halo ones.

Could it be that PCI5x16 is a lie??

The way I look at it, the whole selling point of these CPU's and this chipset is that it's supposed to be a "long haul" solution. Most of us shouldn't need to update our CPU/Mobo very often, and in my case, I'm planning on rolling with this thing for at least 4-5 years. PCIE 5 doesn't matter at all right now, but in 4-5 years things could change a lot. Getting a board with an E is only marginally more expensive than a normal 650, so that's one more thing I don't have to worry about down the line.
 
Rev. NIght is looking for an PCI adapter which connects to the front panel connection on the Motherboard----and offers some 3.5mm outputs. Instead of running it to the front.

I spent some time looking today and couldn't find any PCI adapters. Found some old style front bay boxes. But....cases don't have front bays anymore.

I looked as well. I have one laying around that came with a Gigabyte 975 board but it doesn't look like anyone is selling them for some reason.

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-G1975X-rev-10#ov

It's because they put those fans on there that there was no room for audio outputs at that back, so they included a bracket with them that plugged directly into the header.

3de7-gigabyte-ga-g1975x-brackets.jpg


If you used all the brackets they provided you only had room for a video card.
 
The way I look at it, the whole selling point of these CPU's and this chipset is that it's supposed to be a "long haul" solution. Most of us shouldn't need to update our CPU/Mobo very often, and in my case, I'm planning on rolling with this thing for at least 4-5 years. PCIE 5 doesn't matter at all right now, but in 4-5 years things could change a lot. Getting a board with an E is only marginally more expensive than a normal 650, so that's one more thing I don't have to worry about down the line.
I'm still gaming on my intel 6th gen Z170. Its a PCIEx16 3.0 system. Look at this TPU scaling article of a 4090, from PCI 1x, 2x, 3x and 4x. From 3 to 4, there is only a 2% difference at 1080, 1440, and 4k. If it will be several years before PCI4 is maxed out at mainstream cards, and the historical performance delta is only at most 2% for a halo card, what exactly is the reason to pay more for PCI5x16 right now?

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-pci-express-scaling/28.html
 
I'm still gaming on my intel 6th gen Z170. Its a PCIEx16 3.0 system. Look at this TPU scaling article of a 4090, from PCI 1x, 2x, 3x and 4x. From 3 to 4, there is only a 2% difference at 1080, 1440, and 4k. If it will be several years before PCI4 is maxed out at mainstream cards, and the historical performance delta is only at most 2% for a halo card, what exactly is the reason to pay more for PCI5x16 right now?

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-pci-express-scaling/28.html

You're paying for a higher quality board due to the components, pcb layers and traces required to support PCIe 5.0. If you don't want or need that, don't pay for it.
 
I'm willing to spend $25-30 more for something with PCIE 5 right now even if the increase doesn't end up being huge once PCIE 5 cards hit. Knowing my luck, I'll be a fan of one of those games that sees a legit impact. Or PCIE 5 bandwidth will suddenly end up being utilized by the RTX 7090 and I'll wish I spent that $25 back in 2023 instead of itching to buy a new CPU/Mobo combo before I'd like. The additional cost is small, so I'm willing to spend it for peace of mind.
 
You're paying for a higher quality board due to the components, pcb layers and traces required to support PCIe 5.0. If you don't want or need that, don't pay for it.
You are correct and so is Rev. Night on the PCI-E Slots and their bandwidth. Hell, AGP 8X wasn't even maxed out when we moved to PCI-E 1.0 which was 10x faster... There are plenty of shitty PCI-E 5.0 boards out there. I have encountered at least 1 (out of 2) when I was testing the AM5 platform. While the signaling quality for the main PCI-E slot will be there it does not guarantee that the rest of the Mainboard is worth anything at all. AMD's naming conventions this time around are a convoluted mess.
 
That bracket has line in, line out, mic. I would need front, rear, and center/sub. Unless the mobo allows to reassign audio jacks
 
That bracket has line in, line out, mic. I would need front, rear, and center/sub. Unless the mobo allows to reassign audio jacks
Theoretically this SB should support discrete 5.1 Channel connections.
https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Int...hannel+sound+card&qid=1673631876&sr=8-19&th=1

I have one of these at home, works with Windows 11 and will support your speakers. It's not gonna blow your socks off but it is an improvement over onboard sound.
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com...d+card,+windows+11+driver,aps,124&sr=8-9&th=1
 
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yeah, i saw solutions like that. people here made it seem like the header cable would be an easy bracket to find. huge PITA, glad someone posted a mobo above that has them integrated in
 
That bracket has line in, line out, mic. I would need front, rear, and center/sub. Unless the mobo allows to reassign audio jacks
it should, the audio chip supports it.
still havent been able to find you a brackoot. there is one sound card that i found that has the same kind of seperate pci bracket that might work hooked straight to the hd audio header. this one: 7.1 Surround Sound PCI-e Sound Card, S/PDIF In and Out - SD-PEX63081 (sybausa.com)

this is going waaaaay ot though, maybe start a thread if you havent.
 
i figure to use prime 650-plus mobo that was posted above. I would love it if DirectStorage and other PCIe 5 drives were out. Curious how much of an improvement (windows and game loads) would there be. Theres some game called Forespoken coming out Jan 24 that has directstorage implemented, wonder how good of a job they did
 
it should, the audio chip supports it.
still havent been able to find you a brackoot. there is one sound card that i found that has the same kind of seperate pci bracket that might work hooked straight to the hd audio header. this one: 7.1 Surround Sound PCI-e Sound Card, S/PDIF In and Out - SD-PEX63081 (sybausa.com)

this is going waaaaay ot though, maybe start a thread if you havent.
Agreed on the OT

However, last comment only thing i worry about on the sybya is
  • Based on Cmedia CM8828 Multichannel Audio Processor
Not sure about the CM9882 portion however, the CM8828 is a bastard to find drivers for and a lot of people say it doesn't function on Windows 11. Doubt Sybya writes custom drivers, Cmedia hasn't updated their drivers for it since 2020
yeah, i saw solutions like that. people here made it seem like the header cable would be an easy bracket to find. huge PITA, glad someone posted a mobo above that has them integrated in
Start a new thread and we will be happy to help ya. We have nearly derailed this one entirely. I posed the pic of the ASUS Prime MB if that's the one you are talking about.
 
Then let us put this thread back on topic.

Intel released their 13900KS top end model today (reviews). The one meant to take on Zen 4 vcache. Techspot gave it a pretty bad review:

"For gaming though, we prefer something like the Ryzen 7 7700X or the more efficient 7700 version (you can also under volt or use Eco Mode with the 7700X), those are significantly more power efficient parts that deliver 13900K-like performance for under $400. Then again, if your primary concern is gaming then you're probably best off waiting until the Zen 4 3D V-Cache parts land next month, and check out what they have to offer.

The Core i9-13900KS is a dumpster fire of a processor and at $699 most builders should ignore it. At the right price may be this could be a great product, you'd just power limit it for more sane operating temperatures, but if you're going to do that the 13900K makes more sense. Short of extreme overclockers, this is a hard pass."
 
Then let us put this thread back on topic.

Intel released their 13900KS top end model today (reviews). The one meant to take on Zen 4 vcache. Techspot gave it a pretty bad review:

"For gaming though, we prefer something like the Ryzen 7 7700X or the more efficient 7700 version (you can also under volt or use Eco Mode with the 7700X), those are significantly more power efficient parts that deliver 13900K-like performance for under $400. Then again, if your primary concern is gaming then you're probably best off waiting until the Zen 4 3D V-Cache parts land next month, and check out what they have to offer.

The Core i9-13900KS is a dumpster fire of a processor and at $699 most builders should ignore it. At the right price may be this could be a great product, you'd just power limit it for more sane operating temperatures, but if you're going to do that the 13900K makes more sense. Short of extreme overclockers, this is a hard pass."
the KS does beat the highest end 7000s, we'll have to see what the x3d looks like next month, but the KS is not worth the premium, imo. the 12900ks wasnt worth it either.
ps: start a thread so we can still help, just point us to it.
 
That bracket has line in, line out, mic. I would need front, rear, and center/sub. Unless the mobo allows to reassign audio jacks
Yes, all the current Realtek chips allow you to re-assign every jack. That's how they get surround sound from a PC with only 3 audio jacks built-into the motherboard: you connect the front panel output to your case (if it has front panel jacks) and then re-assign those as surrounds. And then you stupidly have surrioiud cables dangly off the front of your computer : \

There is no reason that bracket won't work.
Then let us put this thread back on topic.

Intel released their 13900KS top end model today (reviews). The one meant to take on Zen 4 vcache. Techspot gave it a pretty bad review:

"For gaming though, we prefer something like the Ryzen 7 7700X or the more efficient 7700 version (you can also under volt or use Eco Mode with the 7700X),
You can also undervolt and/or power limit Intel's parts. 13th gen works very well that way. Even with a simple power limit, they only lose about 4% performance, limited to 150w.

Additionally, even though Intel does use more power when gaming, Techpowerup found gaming temps to be exactly the same, between 7600x, 7700x, 7900x, 7950x, 13600k, and 13700k. Only the 13900k had significantly more temperature, while gaming. Again, you can unvervolt it, too.
 
Then let us put this thread back on topic.

Intel released their 13900KS top end model today (reviews). The one meant to take on Zen 4 vcache. Techspot gave it a pretty bad review:

"For gaming though, we prefer something like the Ryzen 7 7700X or the more efficient 7700 version (you can also under volt or use Eco Mode with the 7700X), those are significantly more power efficient parts that deliver 13900K-like performance for under $400. Then again, if your primary concern is gaming then you're probably best off waiting until the Zen 4 3D V-Cache parts land next month, and check out what they have to offer.

The Core i9-13900KS is a dumpster fire of a processor and at $699 most builders should ignore it. At the right price may be this could be a great product, you'd just power limit it for more sane operating temperatures, but if you're going to do that the 13900K makes more sense. Short of extreme overclockers, this is a hard pass."
FYI - my 13900K is currently running and within .7 to 2.4% of the 13900KS running DDR5 7400 RAM. Benchmarks all pulled directly from the Hardware Unboxed Cinebench R23 ones they have listed. I didn't even completely terminate all my background tasks, I'm still running other stuff. I'm currently running it with a bus speed of 101.25, with a boost of 100 Mhz over stock and DDR4 4366 in Gear 1 on a 289 dollar MSI Tomahawk Motherboard. My RAM is Neo Forza, cost 139 Bucks and is at CL19. And I'm that close to the 13900KS with super duper expensive and fast DDR5 RAM. I haven't even tweaked my build yet for maximum performance. That was just a couple hours of benchmarking and stability testing. Totally Agree the 13900KS is an utter waste of money.

You can wait til February for the Vcache parts that will NOT overclock, ARE underclocked and have shitty single thread performance. Early leaks make them faster at 1080P.... than the 5800X3D. That is yesterday's news. In my opinion, if you can't push 4K faster what is the point? The 13900K is 10+ FPS faster in nearly every benchmark over AMD (all their parts). That's why I bought it and I have seen the power of the 13900K first hand. First time I've gotten motion sickness in 30 years playing a video game.... I was so immersed in Cyberpunk with all settings on Maximum or above (RAY tracing is currently one step below crazy and I think I am gonna turn that shit up too) I lost track of time and couldn't pull myself away from the screen. It was like a religious experience since the last time I played it on a 2080Ti with my 5600X.
 
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6 channel output to my Z-5500s. On my current intel Z170 board, and every mobo I've had before this, it was green (line out), black (rear) and orange (center/sub). For AM5, I rarely see this. Some are SPDIF only, and some don't even have that. Like they expect we have soundcards, or USB speakers/headsets
As I said earlier, realtek lets you remap the audio ports. As long as it has 3 3.5mm jacks on the rear, you can map them to your 5.1 speaker setup. I did this on a b350 board before moving to a receiver so I could run more sources. No need for the audio breakout panel, but that could be useful if you want to run a mic or line in along with your 5.1 setup if there aren't 4 3.5mm jacks in the rear.
 
When is this coming out?
Which CPU are you guys buying from the X3D series?
Sometime in February. AMD hasn't given a hard date yet. I don't think anyone knows for sure yet how they will stack up against each other. Frame Chasers on YouTube speculated that the 7800X3D might actually be the fastest chip for pure gaming due to the design differences in the chips (more latency going on with the higher core count chips basically). We'll have to wait and see though I guess.

I'm not too fond of the AM5 motherboard options right now and am happy with my current setup (not a single crash or issue), so I may wait another generation or so before I do another CPU/MoBo upgrade.
 
i mean if i had a 5800x3d i wouldnt upgrade either. I would wait until zen6 or even zen 7.
 
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I'm going to watch/read reviews before buying any of 'em. I don't necessarily need the amount of cores the 7950X3D has for my work, so I'm hoping one of the other models is better gaming option. Price may come into play, too. Then I'll hope and pray that they're actually available for purchase. It would be nice if Microcenter has a bundle discount of some sort going on, too. I want fast RAM, so I'd actually rather get a deal on a Mobo than free RAM. Gonna be lots of hoping going on in my house.
 
I'm going to watch/read reviews before buying any of 'em. I don't necessarily need the amount of cores the 7950X3D has for my work, so I'm hoping one of the other models is better gaming option. Price may come into play, too. Then I'll hope and pray that they're actually available for purchase. It would be nice if Microcenter has a bundle discount of some sort going on, too. I want fast RAM, so I'd actually rather get a deal on a Mobo than free RAM. Gonna be lots of hoping going on in my house.

You still get $20 off on the MB bundle even if you get the free G.Skill with the current AM5 processors. What fast ram are you looking at that's noticeably better than the DDR5-6000 CL36 that Microcenter is providing?
 
You still get $20 off on the MB bundle even if you get the free G.Skill with the current AM5 processors. What fast ram are you looking at that's noticeably better than the DDR5-6000 CL36 that Microcenter is providing?
Theoretically, the G Skill CL30 is superior to it's CL36 counterpart. Only problem is it costs about 300 bones.

However, there are a number of benchmarks showcasing stuff like DDR5 7400 (Hardware Unboxed among them). Latency has to be utterly crazy on that stuff.
 
You still get $20 off on the MB bundle even if you get the free G.Skill with the current AM5 processors. What fast ram are you looking at that's noticeably better than the DDR5-6000 CL36 that Microcenter is providing?

No clue how much better it is, but Corsair has CL30 DDR5-6000 for right around $200. Major difference? Highly unlikely, but my new build has a pile of Corsair stuff in there, so I wanted it for aesthetics, too. Honestly, I don't think they'll keep those deals around for the 3D processors unless they end up being disappointing. Those bundles are trying to move stuff that otherwise wouldn't. If they end up being disappointing, I might even look in the Intel direction.
 
Curious, whats stopping me from getting these deals now, returning the 7700x cpu later, and keeping the ram for myself?
 
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