When will Video Card prices come down lower?

crazycrave said:
Even if I won the newegg shuffle there page link showed $899 for there Zotec RTX 3070 holo that there store was selling for $879 .. Not that I wanted an Nvidia card after being AMD for ever but it's something new to me if I keep the card or not as to be 2080Ti like would be something to see for under $1200 .. so keep that in mind as the 2080Ti set the higher prices were seeing .
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I think the Shuffle prices for LHR 3060 Ti's are good, $540-580 typically. The higher end cards maybe not so much.
 
Varmint said:
I think the Shuffle prices for LHR 3060 Ti's are good, $540-580 typically. The higher end cards maybe not so much.
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I got the Zotec 3070 Holo installed and running great .. says it's 24% faster in Firestrike then my RX5700 on same system.
 
As long as GPU mining is a thing, and is profitable for miners, I expect it to be permanent.

GPU mining has turned GPUs into investments. They are subject to the same forces that govern investments, like risk and profitability. Not just availability.

One poster compared mining to picking up a $20 bill on the sidewalk. If walking into a store and buying a GPU at msrp is easy money, it won't stay easy money for long. The price will go up accordingly.

The only scenario where GPU prices fall is where GPU mineable cryptocurrency crashes in price.
 
3dprophet said:
As long as GPU mining is a thing, and is profitable for miners, I expect it to be permanent.

GPU mining has turned GPUs into investments. They are subject to the same forces that govern investments, like risk and profitability. Not just availability.

One poster compared mining to picking up a $20 bill on the sidewalk. If walking into a store and buying a GPU at msrp is easy money, it won't stay easy money for long. The price will go up accordingly.

The only scenario where GPU prices fall is where GPU mineable cryptocurrency crashes in price.
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I mean, I agree with that. Right now Mining is like a money printing machine. If GPU supply goes up, so will demand for mining cards. threre is pretty much an insatiable appetite for them. If big mining operations could, they would buy ALL the cards. Or twice as many as cards that exist.

The only exception here is if Nvidia and AMD figure out how to truly and effectively nerf their consumer models for mining, so they are simply not profitable in that role, without impacting gaming and other consumer performance.

Then they can can force miners to their higher priced cards (Quadro's or whatever)

There will still be a resource shortage on the fab side though, so it won't go back to the old days, but it should relieve some of the consumer frustration.

Other ways this could resolve itself to a point is if - as you say - GPU mineable currency crashes. I think it probably should, but the bubble for this useless nonsense is still strong. It wouldn't take much to change that though. Any indication of increased government regulation could change that in a hurry. Right now there is a big legal case, SEC vs. Ripple which I am sure many in the industry are following. If the SEC wins, which I hope they do, it could fundamentally change the crypto landscape, at least in the U.S, and the U.S. - while it is not where it used to be, is still highly influential in financial markets. I could easily see how that might trigger a downward spiral in crypto values.
 
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This is not a mining issue...it is a loyalty to customer issue.
Miners can't get these in bulk unless somebody is willing to forego the customer loyalty to sell them in bulk to miners.
After watching that MicroCenter video above (which is over a year old by the way) you can see why things are the way they are.
 
Saabjock said:
This is not a mining issue...it is a loyalty to customer issue.
Miners can't get these in bulk unless somebody is willing to forego the customer loyalty to sell them in bulk to miners.
After watching that MicroCenter video above (which is over a year old by the way) you can see why things are the way they are.
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If you are the CEO of NVidia or AMD, a big part of your total "compensation package" is related to the stock price. And the stock price is usually affected by revenue growth and profits. So what do you think those CEOs are going to do?
 
Saabjock said:
Market manipulation at its finest.
The worst of capitalism, which is only as good as the people behind it.
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Unfortunately that's the nature of the beast. Politics and backdoor deals. People in exclusive clubs that get better deals then others. When the Americas broke away from Britain. I will say there was some significant advantages that the Americas had over Britain, but the end result was the same. It's human nature to abuse the situation when given power and money.

If you do a quick summary of all human nature over recorded history, this seems to shine true.
 
Varmint said:
They have a solo 3060 Ti almost every day.
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I have seen a few good deals with combo's and I could used an extar mother board .

There are so many unknowns like who your dealing with on the other ended with used and new or is your new purchase installed and working great , how is the support for RMA's because where your buying means just as much as the brand you bought .

I do like places like BB as you can take it back but everytime I go there first sign I see in the window is we have no RTX cards , they don't even have signs for X Box or PS5 saying that and why I put that video up of Micro Center and the RTX 3070 release.. One year later and the line is still going strong for anything saying RTX .
 
Looks like some people may have got the five finger discount on some 3070s.
 

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FlawleZ said:
Looks like some people may have got the five finger discount on some 3070s.
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I don't know, with expedited shipping, you could probably sell at least a hundred of them for $3000/each. (Merry Christmas!)
 
FlawleZ said:
Looks like some people may have got the five finger discount on some 3070s.
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and this is the kind of BS that people claim doesn't exist.. This is small scale operation.. and just some "regular Joe"... Humans by nature are greedy... this is going on by the magnitude of the thousands.. and thousands.. and you tell me Mining isn't the reason on the GPU shortages... GTFO lmao

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But I get it..gpus are a luxury good and I'm not entitled to one.. just don't spread bs that mining isn't impacting gpu supply
🤣
 
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jlbenedict said:
and this is the kind of BS that people claim doesn't exist.. This is small scale operation.. and just some "regular Joe"... Humans by nature are greedy... this is going on by the magnitude of the thousands.. and thousands.. and you tell me Mining isn't the reason on the GPU shortages... GTFO lmao
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Exactly. The manufacturers shipped more GPUs in Q3 this year than any prior. This is 100% the demand problem. And the worst part is its insatiable so no amount of supply increase will fix it.
 
FlawleZ said:
Looks like some people may have got the five finger discount on some 3070s.
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That guy wrote that he negotiated a deal directly with nVidia for all those cards. That's ridiculous...those cards would all sell at retail easily, so why is nVidia selling in large quantities directly to miners?

Can't wait for Intel to make a 3070 equivalent for less money.
 
I'm hoping for a dip in prices after Christmas. If the 3070 (or 6700XT) drops to $800, I'll grab one before the price goes back up. Otherwise, I'll wait for Intel. I'd rather give them my money anyway.
 
Spicedaddy said:
why is nVidia selling in large quantities directly to miners?
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One sale, one invoice, one shipment, one paycheck.

If you have a bakery that makes 500 loaves of bread a day, wouldn't you rather sell all 500 to a sandwich shop and take the rest of the day off, rather than sell each loaf separately to 500 customers?

On top of that, the sandwich shop is willing to give an 10 percent over retail if you sell them all 500. What would you do?
 
I'm sorry to be the barer of bad news, but this is the new normal. GPU prices aren't going to be going down any time soon, likely ever. Nvidia is absolutely rolling in cash, they are selling every GPU they make and at 3x the profit they were making two years ago.

I also believe the stories I hear about them ramping DOWN production in order to keep supply low in proportion to demand. This would indicate that Nvidia wants to keep the prices at this level. Its a matter of maximizing the profit curve: see below.

You have the option of selling 100 things at $10 each, or you can sell 40 things at $30. What should you do? well, each thing takes $5 to manufacture and ship:
so selling 100 @ $10 is (100x10=$1,000) - (100x5=$500) = $500.
Selling 40 @ $30 is (40x30=$1,200) - (40x5=$200) = $1000

So selling 100 things at $10 each nets $500
and selling 40 things at $30 each nets $1000

So in THIS situation, you can DOUBLE your profit by restricting supply and selling for a higher price.

Now please understand this: Nvidia is selling more cards per day right now than they ever have before. If you had the option to sell that same 100 things only at that $30 price point? its the best of both worlds.

So if demand dies down, Nvidia would rather restrict the supply to keep the prices high.



Once again I'm telling you: This is the new normal.
 
Spicedaddy said:
why is nVidia selling in large quantities directly to miners?
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Axman said:
One sale, one invoice, one shipment, one paycheck.

If you have a bakery that makes 500 loaves of bread a day, wouldn't you rather sell all 500 to a sandwich shop and take the rest of the day off, rather than sell each loaf separately to 500 customers?

On top of that, the sandwich shop is willing to give an 10 percent over retail if you sell them all 500. What would you do?
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I don't know about Nvidia, but AIB partners certainly are.

Nvidia themselves would probably prefer if you don't mine on their consumer GPU's. They want miners to buy the more expensive professional ones. (at a significant price premium, of course)
 
Axman said:
One sale, one invoice, one shipment, one paycheck.

If you have a bakery that makes 500 loaves of bread a day, wouldn't you rather sell all 500 to a sandwich shop and take the rest of the day off, rather than sell each loaf separately to 500 customers?

On top of that, the sandwich shop is willing to give an 10 percent over retail if you sell them all 500. What would you do?
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But, if you're a business person, you know that you've probably just killed your business. Not saying that such manipulation can't occur, but when it does, usually it's to take you down.

Nobody will ever go to "sandwich shop" again because they never have any sandwiches, etc.

Growth. Well, if it's broad, growth is fine. But when it's just one, you may need to create a one off scenario (test it for a bit, build up a cash buffer). You have to keep "sandwich shop" a real shop. The lifetime of the "500 loaves a day" customer might not be forever. Might not last a month. I'd be very cautious.

Sorry, I mean, I get the "logic" of what you said. But I also get the "illogic" as well.

Btw, while we're talking sandwiches, the above scenario did really happen during the cryto mining card craze. Some distributors were not prepared to deal with the spike and the return to planet earth. Not to mention supply issues.
 
cjcox said:
But, if you're a business person, you know that you've probably just killed your business. Not saying that such manipulation can't occur, but when it does, usually it's to take you down.

Nobody will ever go to "sandwich shop" again because they never have any sandwiches, etc.

Growth. Well, if it's broad, growth is fine. But when it's just one, you may need to create a one off scenario (test it for a bit, build up a cash buffer). You have to keep "sandwich shop" a real shop. The lifetime of the "500 loaves a day" customer might not be forever. Might not last a month. I'd be very cautious.

Sorry, I mean, I get the "logic" of what you said. But I also get the "illogic" as well.

Btw, while we're talking sandwiches, the above scenario did really happen during the cryto mining card craze. Some distributors were not prepared to deal with the spike and the return to planet earth. Not to mention supply issues.
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What are you going to do? Get your GPUs from someone else?
 
cjcox said:
Sorry, I mean, I get the "logic" of what you said. But I also get the "illogic" as well.
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I understand, but Nvidia really has marketing covered. This has been going for over a year now and people are still happy to give money to them and their partners. AMD may have a better product at a better price on paper, but no one cares at the moment. It's all hard to find and it's all overpriced.

I do expect things to crash, but maybe not as hard since the crypto market is growing with regards to alt coins, it's not just tied to Eth. Mining operations aren't going to flood the market the way they did a few years ago.

KazeoHin said:
I'm sorry to be the barer of bad news, but this is the new normal.
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It will be until Intel starts selling 3070 equivalents at a loss to gain market share. They're going to push crazy hard with I+I packages to compete with A+A, and at that point, Nvidia will have to become a more consumer-focused company, or shift their market to suit more directly suit mining and datacenter.
 
KazeoHin said:
What are you going to do? Get your GPUs from someone else?
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I mean, that will ultimately be one of two things that help resolve the situation.

Increased FAB capacity will eventually come on line, allowing AMD Nvidia and Intel to all put more product in the giving people more of a choice.

With a little luck, SEC's push to regulate cryptocurrencies as securities, and other nations following suit will also cause crypto mining to become less profitable in the not too distant future, putting a damper on that demand as well.
 
Axman said:
It will be until Intel starts selling 3070 equivalents at a loss to gain market share. They're going to push crazy hard with I+I packages to compete with A+A, and at that point, Nvidia will have to become a more consumer-focused company, or shift their market to suit more directly suit mining and datacenter.
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Unfortunately, Intel being in the game changes VERY little. If Intel sells GPUs at low prices, scalpers will buy them up and sell for more market-matching prices. right now there are people willing to pay 3070 prices for 3070 performance. If intel charges 3050 prices for 3070 performance, someone will grab that 3070 performance and sell it for 3070 prices. So Intel is leaving money on the table if they think they can just discount their way to high adoption.

Remember, the price WILL ALWAYS RISE WITH DEMAND and if the manufacturer does not take advantage of this, than a middle-man will. This is why Nvidia could be giving these cards away for free, they would still cost EXACTLY what they do, only it would be Ebay scalpers, OEMs, AIBs, etc cashing in on the demand.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I mean, that will ultimately be one of two things that help resolve the situation.

Increased FAB capacity will eventually come on line, allowing AMD Nvidia and Intel to all put more product in the giving people more of a choice.

With a little luck, SEC's push to regulate cryptocurrencies as securities, and other nations following suit will also cause crypto mining to become less profitable in the not too distant future, putting a damper on that demand as well.
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As I said earlier: Nvidia will most likely reduce production in order hold their current demand-to-supply ratio. Competition COULD change this, but that competition would have to be willing to leave money on the table in order to get market share.
 
KazeoHin said:
Once again I'm telling you: This is the new normal.
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I know I've put off buying anything for a long time now. Eventually, this impacts the whole "system". Why is my new big big big game not selling? Answer: Nobody has the big big card to play it. What the game producer hears: They didn't like it (sells the company).

You might like golf, but if you have to pay $100,000/yr. in greens fees, you'll find something else to do.
 
cjcox said:
I know I've put off buying anything for a long time now. Eventually, this impacts the whole "system". Why is my new big big big game not selling? Answer: Nobody has the big big card to play it. What the game producer hears: They didn't like it (sells the company).

You might like golf, but if you have to pay $100,000/yr. in greens fees, you'll find something else to do.
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I completely agree. But as long as there are players willing to pay: that Golf course is probably rolling in cash, and to corporate greed, that is all that matters.

You may have put off buying a GPU, but Nvidia is still selling every chip they can manufacture. Your willingness to pay these prices has not mattered at all to them. and until the number of people willing to pay these prices dies down, they will continue to sell and continue to justify the current pricing.

I don't like it, but that's how it is.
 
KazeoHin said:
Unfortunately, Intel being in the game changes VERY little. If Intel sells GPUs at low prices, scalpers will buy them up and sell for more market-matching prices.
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This is way less likely with Intel. Nvidia is a velvet glove when it comes to mining and scalping. Intel is an iron fist, and they're got lots of experience setting prices and controlling markets. They are masters of all the dirty tricks, we've seen them fix markets before, and we've seen them take fines from governments like it's nothing to them -- because they're nothing to them.
 
Axman said:
This is way less likely with Intel. Nvidia is a velvet glove when it comes to mining and scalping. Intel is an iron fist, and they're got lots of experience setting prices and controlling markets. They are masters of all the dirty tricks, we've seen them fix markets before, and we've seen them take fines from governments like it's nothing to them -- because they're nothing to them.
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While I hope you're right, I also know Intel is not in quite a monopolistic position as they once were. the rise of AMD, Nvidia, TSMC, Samsung, ARM etc are all smaller, but very competent competitors essentially acting like piranhas eating up Intel's markets one little bite at a time. Intel does not control the industry like they once did.
 
KazeoHin said:
I completely agree. But as long as there are players willing to pay: that Golf course is probably rolling in cash, and to corporate greed, that is all that matters.

You may have put off buying a GPU, but Nvidia is still selling every chip they can manufacture. Your willingness to pay these prices has not mattered at all to them. and until the number of people willing to pay these prices dies down, they will continue to sell and continue to justify the current pricing.

I don't like it, but that's how it is.
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I guess what I'm saying is that "gaming wise", the current selling strategy can be destructive. You can overplay your hand with regards to greed and create a "no market" situation. But time will tell.
 
cjcox said:
Nobody will ever go to "sandwich shop" again because they never have any sandwiches, etc.
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This is not a sandwich shop, this is a multi billion dollar GPU company. If I can't get my shipment of 10k GPU's from them this year doesn't mean I'm not going to try again next year and next year (assuming the performance/cost is good for the market).
KazeoHin said:
Unfortunately, Intel being in the game changes VERY little. If Intel sells GPUs at low prices, scalpers will buy them up and sell for more market-matching prices.
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Well.. in theory if Intel brought a lot of supply to the market prices WILL go down. However, that is theory. And anyways last I heard Intel is using TSMC for GPUs (rumor). So if they bring in GPU's from TSMC's constrained supply this wont really help anyways (still supply constrained, no change there).
Axman said:
This is way less likely with Intel. Nvidia is a velvet glove when it comes to mining and scalping. Intel is an iron fist, and they're got lots of experience setting prices and controlling markets. They are masters of all the dirty tricks, we've seen them fix markets before, and we've seen them take fines from governments like it's nothing to them -- because they're nothing to them.
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Maybe. I mean Intel doesn't really gain anything by trying to force lower prices. If the cards sell out at higher prices anyways then they are just losing profit.
 
serpretetsky said:
Maybe. I mean Intel doesn't really gain anything by trying to force lower prices. If the cards sell out at higher prices anyways then they are just losing profit.
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Intel has a long history of making deals and selling products at a loss in order to maintain, retain, and grow market share. They don't care about profits today, they want people to buy their stuff no matter what.

AMD and Nvidia know they can only keep these prices high as long as they're not competing against Intel, then all bets are off. Intel doesn't care if they don't make money; they're not making any money already right now. If AMD and Nvidia don't address the consumer market, Intel will make sure they're synonymous with gaming for 2022, and then all that hard work will evaporate.

AMD and Nvidia are putting away large profits right now, but that money is for a rainy day, and the clouds are rolling in.
 
Axman said:
Intel has a long history of making deals and selling products at a loss in order to maintain, retain, and grow market share. They don't care about profits today, they want people to buy their stuff no matter what.

AMD and Nvidia know they can only keep these prices high as long as they're not competing against Intel, then all bets are off. Intel doesn't care if they don't make money; they're not making any money already right now. If AMD and Nvidia don't address the consumer market, Intel will make sure they're synonymous with gaming for 2022, and then all that hard work will evaporate.

AMD and Nvidia are putting away large profits right now, but that money is for a rainy day, and the clouds are rolling in.
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I wish I shared your optimism.
 
Axman said:
Intel has a long history of making deals and selling products at a loss in order to maintain, retain, and grow market share. They don't care about profits today, they want people to buy their stuff no matter what.

AMD and Nvidia know they can only keep these prices high as long as they're not competing against Intel, then all bets are off. Intel doesn't care if they don't make money; they're not making any money already right now. If AMD and Nvidia don't address the consumer market, Intel will make sure they're synonymous with gaming for 2022, and then all that hard work will evaporate.

AMD and Nvidia are putting away large profits right now, but that money is for a rainy day, and the clouds are rolling in.
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If they sell out at MSRP, above MSRP, or below MSRP its all the same marketshare.
 
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