Mad Maxx
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What Mouse and Keyboard Are You Using Right Now?
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mullet
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WOW thanks!!!
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Zarathustra[H]
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If you prefer full key travel instead of one of those laptop-style chiclet/island keyboards (which I hate) you can always just pick up pretty much any mechanical MX style keyboard that is not clicky (linear or tactile bump) and order a set of -o-rings to put under each key, which prevents bottoming out and makes them much much more quiet.
There are many varieties, with different durometer, etc. Here is an example, but do your own googling.
I use a Ducky One (original variety) with tactile Bump (Cherry MX Clears) with a set of o-rings installed at work where I am worried about bothering my colleagues, and they work exactly as advertised, keeping things nice and quiet.
(Keep in mind, clears are pretty uncommmon, and you probably don't even want them. I just use them as I like really heavy switches) Most people will probably like MX Browns (tactile bump, no click) MX Reds (linear) or MX Red Silent (Silent linear) more than my clears.
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mullet
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Thanks, after reading your post I found this Razer Huntsman V2 ( Linear Optical Switches ). what do you think? seems quiet.
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Zarathustra[H]
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I can't speak to that keyboard or the optical switches it uses at all. I'm just not familliar with either. I'll let someone else chime in.
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Lateralus
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Pretty sure that board is still going to be fairly noisy. You can get quieter switches (linear or tactile or optical, not clicky) but they are still going to make noise IME, especially if not dampened by o-rings (most aren't, though they can be added, but that only prevents some of the noise anyway).
If you want a "super quiet" keyboard as mentioned in your earlier post, I'd highly recommend that you stay away from any mechanical board outside of possibly something with Cherry MX Silent switches (it still won't be 'silent' but it'll probably be more quiet than most other mech. boards) and stick with a laptop / scissor-switch style board like what Mad Maxx posted. We can go into the pros and cons of what it feels like to type on those two boards, or longevity, or anything else...but if noise is your primary concern then my advice stands. If you're willing to trade a bit of silence for something that will probably be much more durable (and have more key travel) then we can start looking into mechanical options. If you're looking for something in between those two things, there are a host of mechanical boards with low profile switches that will have reduced noise and key travel while still featuring the benefits of mechanical keyboards.
There is going to be a world of difference in terms of typing feel / user experience between the Logitech MX Keys and something like that Razer Huntsman. Note that neither is necessarily bad or good - just very different from one another - and your preferences will likely dictate what kind of keyboards you own from here on out.
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mullet
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Great info, I watched a few videos on the Razor Hunt v2 (v1 was loud) and yes it makes a little noise but not so loud that it would bother me. I think both would be great keyboards.
Thanks everyone for the in depth info.
Thanks everyone for the in depth info.
mullet
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Well I went and got the Razer Huntsman v2 and it is pretty quiet, I would say it is about 20% louder then my last keyboard. Feels great typing on it.
Lateralus
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New keebs to go with the new build:
Keychron S1 with RGB backlight and hot-swappable switches. I chose the low-profile Gateron Blues since I usually prefer clicky switches to linear/tactile (except MX Clears...mmm).
Loving it so far. As a previously staunch full-size keyboard fan, I've been slowly converted via TKL boards and now this. Feels good to go back to low profile switches, and I'm really enjoying the feel of it. The only time I really prefer linear switches is when noise (or lack thereof) is a priority.
Still rocking a Viper Mini for now - man I love lightweight ambidextrous mice.
Keychron S1 with RGB backlight and hot-swappable switches. I chose the low-profile Gateron Blues since I usually prefer clicky switches to linear/tactile (except MX Clears...mmm).
Loving it so far. As a previously staunch full-size keyboard fan, I've been slowly converted via TKL boards and now this. Feels good to go back to low profile switches, and I'm really enjoying the feel of it. The only time I really prefer linear switches is when noise (or lack thereof) is a priority.
Still rocking a Viper Mini for now - man I love lightweight ambidextrous mice.
Love the left handed trackball in the background!
It's amazing how cheap things can get for something usable. At one point newegg had an Aukey something 'blue' clicky full size for $17 shipped. I thought why not? Turns out that it's actually so good that it has become a daily at one of my workstations.
And trackballs--found out about a company called Perixx--I've got 3x of those now too, and they're a rival for the trusty logitech wired thumb that's been discontinued for like 20yrs now.
Have you looked at the Matias boards? I considered getting one for the wife, but she likes her apple stuff so didn't want to get stuck with something I probably wouldn't use much.I switched from a Model M to a Das Keyboard with Cherry MC blue switches on my main rig this week.Seems pretty ok. Better than the membrane keyboards I have at work and on some secondary rigs. Mostly I just wanted to be ready for the new job I started on Monday and not have to figure out how to make a Model M work nicely with a Mac. New job issues Macs. I could have gotten a Windows laptop, but the other developers told me that was a bad idea. It's a large company and they run some sort of security software on Windows machines that forces you to explicitly whitelist any new executable you build. Totally sucks for C/C++ development. Also production is mostly Linux, so Mac is closer. At home my desktops are dual boot Windows/Linux, my server runs Linux, and I've got a moderately priced Windows laptop (~$800 in 2019) I rarely use just to have something portable. Maybe I'll switch back if I can figure out how to make a Model M play nice with a Mac. I haven't had a Mac since like 2003 or something so I don't know what I'm doing with one. Also not enough Model Ms to go around at my place, so I can put the Das Keyboard to good use even if I end up switching back to the Model M.
My Das blue board is also a bit of a downer compared to my Model Ms for sure. It's an older gen (not sure, but newest it would be is 3/4), so maybe they're better now, but it's been a let down compared to blue boards I've bought for much less new (like that Aukey one).
KamikazePlatypus
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Just replaced my CM MasterKeys Pro S with a Wooting 60HE and G Pro X Superlight.
God damn, analog switches are NICE.
God damn, analog switches are NICE.
Yeah, those analogs are pretty sweet since you pretty much can program the actuation point to your liking. Now, if they added some mechanism whereby they would have a tactile feedback with a click, then that would be the ultimate for me.
KamikazePlatypus
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Yeah, that's the one unfortunate downside. I used linear switches before though, so I don't mind.
Lateralus
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Yeah, the linear makes more sense for analog (my gas pedal doesn’t click and reset after all, lol) but it would be nice to have a tactile option for sure. I just switched from a Wooting HE with Lekker switches, haha. I missed the reduced key travel of low profile switches, and I wasn’t really taking advantage of the analog features. I don’t play many racers, etc. these days where it would be a big benefit.
One of the best things about the mechanical keyboard community is the plethora of options to suit all tastes, of which mine have changed many times!
I'm interested in getting a basic gaming keyboard but I'm overwhelmed at all the choices/options and the 'hotswapping' things with the keys - I want something quiet when typing. So, I guess a 'cherry mx red' one? Also, some don't have all the keys? Is there a pro/con to that? I also would like rgb or white led - I don't care which as long as one can see the keys with most of the lights off - for gaming at night etc.
I was looking at keychron keyboards but if there's other (cheaper) keyboards that are good quality, that's acceptable, too. I was gonna look at hotswappable keyboards in case I change the keys - in case they're too loud - I think linear switches might be better than the tactile style? I also need it to be wireless or include the wireless option.
Does it matter if you go with plastic vs aluminum? The aluminum ones seem to be recommended over plastic.
Okay, I'll shut up now - so, 'welcoming any advice and recommendations.
I was looking at keychron keyboards but if there's other (cheaper) keyboards that are good quality, that's acceptable, too. I was gonna look at hotswappable keyboards in case I change the keys - in case they're too loud - I think linear switches might be better than the tactile style? I also need it to be wireless or include the wireless option.
Does it matter if you go with plastic vs aluminum? The aluminum ones seem to be recommended over plastic.
Okay, I'll shut up now - so, 'welcoming any advice and recommendations.
Mad Maxx
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Keychron makes excellent keyboards, but I'd buy from Amazon if possible. If you buy directly from Keychron and don't like it, you have to ship it back to China at your own expense. That being said, now's a good time to try a Keychron because most of their keyboards are available at a (temporary) discount.
I'd actually buy something used at first so you can truly figure out what you like. Recommendations are great until they're not what your hands like.
Lateralus
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I get it - it can be overwhelming, especially these days now that the market is so saturated.
If you want quiet, you're on the right track...you'll want to stay away from "clicky" switches like Blues and Greens and lean toward tactile or linear switches instead. MX Reds are a good starting point, although you might discover that MX Silvers (with their earlier actuation) is more up your alley. Beware - this comes with some caveats, though. With super sensitive switches, I found my rate of typos went up due to grazing the keys or resting my fingers on them.
Silent Reds might be more up your alley. They're uhh, Reds in terms of feel, but they're even more quiet (at least they were in my Varmilo board).
Correct, some don't have all the keys (i.e. the standard 104 key format). Most boards fit into one of three well-established categories: full size, TKL (tenkeyless, meaning they ditch the numpad but keep the arrow keys), and 60%. 60% is the most compact and lightweight, having shed even more of its keys. It's really personal preference as far as how close you want your mouse to be to your WASD cluster (smaller boards tend to position your arms closer together and some people find this to be more natural/comfortable). But smaller boards do tend to come with compromises. Many people these days can do without the numpad, but when you start having "layers" of key functionality to accomplish basic things I find that to be a bit too cumbersome for my tastes. Some boards out there don't fit into one of these 3 categories though, and do their own thing (like my Keychron S1 which is a "75%" board or the Cooler Master QuickFire TK which was interesting and its own thing in terms of layout/functionality).
Keychron boards are great based on my experience and others, but they're far from the only game in town when it comes to mechanical keyboards (although they are fairly unique in that they have extensive wireless options). The Ducky One 2 is a very high quality board available in a variety of configurations, for example.
Aluminum > Plastic. More durable and a much more solid/high quality feel.
If you didn't need wireless, I'd probably have suggested the GMMK. They're on sale right now for $30 off, RGB backlit, aluminum body, modular so it can accept lots of other switches, etc. It seems to tick a lot of your boxes, but if wireless is a must then your options are going to become a lot more limited. That might be OK though, since it'll mean fewer boards to pick from/stress over.
The Trackman Marble+? I still have one hooked up to my server which gets occasional use. That thing is an absolutely awesome trackball. Mine has occasional issues with double clicking or not registering a click for the right and left mouse clicks but otherwise still works great.
Zarathustra[H]
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Noise when typing generally comes from two different sources, the switch itself, and the key bottoming out (unless you type very lightly.)
If you want it to be quiet you are going to have to deal with both.
1.) Select a quiet switch.
If we stick with Cherry MX branded switches for a moment, this means you are probably going to be choosing one of the following:
- Red (linear and rather light)
- Black (linear and rather heavy)
- Brown (tactile bump, medium weight)
- Clear (somewhat less common, tactile bump, rather heavy)
The linear switches are exactly as they sound. Smooth motion from top to bottom.
The tactile bump is just a preference. These just have a bump in the movement of the switch right when the switch engages. It can help people feel exactly where the key engages, and some people like that. They do not make noise, like the Blue (medium) and Green (heavy) clicky switches do.
Generally people consider the linear switches to be better for gaming, and the tactile (or clicky) switches to be better for typing.
Many places will sell you "key testers", a small fake keypad with an assortment of switches on it so you can press to your hearts content and select the one you like best. These don't hurt I guess, but I have found them to mostly be useless, as pressing one key in isolation really doesn't give you a good feel for what it is like to type on a keyboard full of them, but it is better than nothing I guess.
You can try to go to a place like Microcenter (if one is available near you) They often have displays you can test. This will give you a much better feel for them.
Once you have chosen a quiet switch, it will still make noise when the key bottoms out unless you type lightly. For the lowest amount of noise you should buy a set of rubber o-rings and install them under the keycap. You will have to pull the keyscaps off one by one and install the o-ring on the bottom.
If you do this, with any linear or tactile Cherry MX switch, you will have a pretty quiet keyboard.
You don't need to make it more complicated than this. These are the basics, but if you really get into keyboards in the future, these days there are plenty of copy-cat branded switches to choose from. Some of them are quite good. (I keep hearing people talk about Kailh switches, for instance) Their colors are not going to line up. These are an option and there are many varieties. It just depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.
For me, as someone who used to type on heavy IBM Model M type keyboards, when I transitioned to more modern Cherry MX style keyboards, I wanted to make sure i had something that wasn't too light for me. For home I bought an OG Ducky One with heavy green clicky switches. For work (because I don't want to annoy others) I bought an OG Ducky One with clear heavy tactile switches, and installed the o-rings in it. It is nice and quiet, despite my heavy typing.
If you are in the U.S, the retail site mechanicalkeyboards.com has a pretty good selection. During the height of the pandemic they were having a difficult time keeping them in stock, but I think they are mostly back to normal now. They have been a great retailer to deal with for me.
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Mad Maxx
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This oughtta be stickied at the top of Mice and Keyboards forum.
OutOfPhase
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Great info and diagram. Just a tiny note - the brown path needs the same "Heavy Typer / Light Typer" decision as others - and if heavy - pick MX Clear.
They're lovely for those of us who would bottom out a switch with a garage door spring.
(And no, they really aren't destructive to fingers - just require commitment)
Zarathustra[H]
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For reference, this is what my OG Ducky One at the office sounds like.
It has Cherry MX Clears (heavy tactile bump) and rubber O-Rings to minimize bottoming out.
I think it comes across louder in the video than in realmlige due to the office being very quiet.
Also worth noting is that I am a notoriously heavy typer. Even with Clears that are very heavy switches I bottom out hard with every keystroke.
Zarathustra[H]
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Also, here is what the O-Rings look like installed.
(Looks like I may be overdue for a keyboard cleaning....)
stinkytofus
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razer blackwidow ultimate cherry blue mx switches and deathadder pro v2 wireless, keyboard 5+ years old, mouse 3+, working great
Mad Maxx
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I got lucky and found a damaged box bundle of the Razer Basilisk V3 Pro + charging cradle for only $100. The mouse and cradle were untouched. I've found my end game mouse, though ain't no way I'd have paid full price ($230) for the bundle.
Nice score! Yours looks different than mine, did you put those grippy rubber things on it yourself?
Btw, make sure you plug into a USB 3.2 port. Took me a while to troubleshoot why the increased poling rate that the dock offers wasn't working for me, and it's because I was plugged into a USB 3.1 port.
If you increase the polling rate above 1000khz and the mouse slows down on your screen, you will know you're plugged into the wrong port!
Mad Maxx
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Yes on the grip tape. I like the rubbery feel compared tom the hard slick plastic.
Interesting thoughts on the ports. I'll check on that.
Nice! Welcome to the obsession! mwahahahahahahah!!!
If it's the white one, that's also hooked up to one of my servers as I got a good deal on it on ebay, but my dailies are the silver ones. All thumballs, not the finger one. All of mine still click well including the original I bought new at walmart for like $18 in 2004. I should have bought the whole inventory, lol.
You're in the same vein as me as I'm still on Model Ms and can only be as efficient on my cherry green ducky or this aukey blue clone switch which is surprisingly crisp. I've never done the linear with o-rings since the click tells me when I've passed the actuation point and I stop going down versus just bottoming out on nearly every other switch, red, brown, black, you name it. I can't even feel the bump on the brown--just feels like some scratchy reds to me, haha.
Zarathustra[H]
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I don'tuse linear either, i use the tactile non click for work (and click for home
The tactile bump switches are similar to the clicky ones just that you feel the bump in your fingers, and it is less of an audible click.
The linears have no bump at all. I've never used those, but I've wondered, since I generally tend to mash ever key so hard that it bottoms out no matter what, I wobder if it really makes a difference for me.
Mine is the white one and I got it back in the late 90s. It's probably around 25 or 26 years old at this point and was used and abused for years. I've never found another trackball which was anywhere near as good.
I also bottom out every key I use so when I went from clicky to linear it didn't make a huge difference for me. I do miss the tactile sensation of the click but it's not so bad that I can't use linear switches. I'm quite happy with the HyperX Alloy Origins with Aqua linear whatever switches they use. When I purchased this keyboard I was looking for mechanical with a good feel to the keys, noticeable force required to push down the keys but not so loud as typical blue switches. This keyboard with the Aqua switches met all of my requirements and haven't had a problem with it in the two years I've owned it. Hopefully I'll find another deal on this keyboard like there was a few months ago when you could get it for $50 when I have some spare cash. I'd love to have at least one spare if not a couple.
If you're using the tacile bump like the click then you probably aren't hammering them like a linear. A linear has no feedback at all. There's some blacks on the keypad for our TLS-350 tank monitor at one site and even though there's a beep each time a key is pressed, I still bottom out completely as my finger has no 'force' frame of reference.
I've felt some really good tacile ones at a geekhack getogether in Milwaukee at the museum of art that I helped put together. I think they were like purple somethings (Zealios?) but I never pursued it further. A while back I got the kbdfans 72-switch tester after I finally found it in stock at mechanicalkeyboards late one night, and combining that with a great deal on the EVGA z15 from b-stock which can take different switches (only 3-pin though), I finally have a platform for experimenting with what my hands like by just getting a few switches at a time vs a whole new board.
What's great about this tester is it has some of the switches I already have in boards so I have a full board experience and the tester experience to compare and then extrapolate what I would possibly like to try from the other switches. But as you already know testers only do go so far on their own because on the tester I felt like my hands would like the Kailh Speed Bronze and the z15 comes stock with them and my hands hate them. I think it's because the actuation point and the click don't line up so a lot of times a keypress will occur before the click. That lack of precision is what throws me off since the Model M's click and actuation is so precise you can literally play it like an instrument. I think that's why a lot of blue boards aren't 'precise' enough for my hands either as there's a bit of a lag or difference in timing that just doesn't work at my speed. (I'm 120-140wpm when I'm 'in the flow' and not thinking about speed, but slow down to 60-80 when I do.)
psy81
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2 Glorious GMMK Pro Keyboards, KBDLite 67, KBD Tiger 80, QK65 plus various switches. Fell into the custom mechanical keyboard rabbit hole but thankfully didnt get carried away buying $1,000 keyboards...
QK65 and Alpaca lubed and filmed switches with FR4 plate is pretty amazing... Although many hate on em Glorious Panda switches lubed and filmed are easily my favourite tactile switches.
Tiger 80 thocks and lots of flex. KBD67 Lite is an awesome little keyboard and the GMMK Pro with some work is pretty amazing keyboard too. All stabilizers are tuned (Durock, Zeal and Owlab stabs).
My favourite mouse is the Roccat Kone XTD. I like a mouse with some weight and just feels right.
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psy81
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I have Kailh Speed Bronze switches and they actuate before the bump/click and pretty loud. At first I thought they nice switches but the more I used them the more I disliked them. Clicky switches were fun at first but trust me they get annoying. Tactile and Linear switches only for me. In my personal experience, Alpacas are the most comfortable linear but very light and H1 or Aqua King switches are nice heavier linear. Boba U4T and Glorious Panda are awesome tactile switches too. For gaming I think I tend to prefer heavy linear switch.