Upgrade this Gaming rig, or gut it and rebuild?

jlbenedict

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Paying up for a 1000+ watt PSU when my system will draw maybe 550 at any given time is just a flat waste of money.

This kind of crap is rampant over in Reddit... the excuse is always "but I'll upgrade in the future..." or the all famous "transient spikes" GTFO... i understand having a little buffer.. that is the way we did it in the "old school days" and still now... maybe 100w extra than what the system will pull, if overclocked and everything max power draw..

I guess inefficiency is no longer a consideration when choosing a PSU
 

Operaghost

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That's what I do, an extra 100 W is plenty.

I bought a 650 for this build and dude is telling me to buy a 1000 watt PSU. Madness.
 

LukeTbk

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I guess inefficiency is no longer a consideration when choosing a PSU
Depending of what you mean by efficancy, buying a 1000w for a 550w would not be against efficancy

f1_121518.jpg


Efficancy peak often around 35 to 50% of a PSU max wattage, buying the double of your average relevant load could be the best efficancy wise, with modern PSU probably require a lot of workload in that windows and pricey electricity to be worth it too.
 

DWD1961

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The link for the display took me to ALL the dell monitors, not a particular one. I was considering a Dell, as I generally love thier displays. My first IPS panel was a 24" Dell that costed me like $700 back in.....I dunno......2008, maybe earlier. lol

This is the display I'm currently going with: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/k9cG3C/msi-optix-g273qpf-270-2560x1440-165-hz-monitor-optix-g273qpf
Unless I find something at a similar price point in a larger size, or with a better warranty (like Dell), without compromising on any of the specs. Most the displays in this price range have much worse contrast ratings from my understanding.
I wouldn't go with a 27. 32 inch can be had for nearly the same price. I got this one in Dec 2020 and have had no problems at all with it. Going for 279.00 right now on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/GIGABYTE-G32QC-Monitor-Response-FreeSync/dp/B0926ZVM75/ref=sr_1_1?crid=14VN14NB8RILH&keywords=GIGABYTE+G32QC+32"&qid=1658952251&s=electronics&sprefix=gigabyte+g32qc+32+,electronics,116&sr=1-1
 
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pendragon1

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DWD1961

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Depending of what you mean by efficancy, buying a 1000w for a 550w would not be against efficancy

View attachment 495558

Efficancy peak often around 35 to 50% of a PSU max wattage, buying the double of your average relevant load could be the best efficancy wise, with modern PSU probably require a lot of workload in that windows and pricey electricity to be worth it too.
Most of the time, like right now writing this response, our PSU are operating at less than 10%. Right now my GPU and CPU combined are using 24 watts. I have a Corsair 550 RTX PSU. Plenty of power and more efficient at lower wattage than 1000 watt versions. Even tapping out my rig playing games, it's using about 250 watts max. AMD 3600 and nVidia 3060ti, with an ITX board, with two sticks x8GB RAM. That's without lights. With lights, is causes a brown out.

PXL_20220503_041011830.jpg
 
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kirbyrj

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This kind of crap is rampant over in Reddit... the excuse is always "but I'll upgrade in the future..." or the all famous "transient spikes" GTFO... i understand having a little buffer.. that is the way we did it in the "old school days" and still now... maybe 100w extra than what the system will pull, if overclocked and everything max power draw..

I guess inefficiency is no longer a consideration when choosing a PSU

Historically, I would agree, but the Nvidia 3XXX cards had significant spikes which actually resulted in shutting off my computer (EVGA 850W Gold with 3090 and 5800x at the time...should have been well within 850W).

If you're going to do the 100W buffer, you better make sure you have a pretty highly rated PSU capable of transient spikes above the rating.
 

DWD1961

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Historically, I would agree, but the Nvidia 3XXX cards had significant spikes which actually resulted in shutting off my computer (EVGA 850W Gold with 3090 and 5800x at the time...should have been well within 850W).

If you're going to do the 100W buffer, you better make sure you have a pretty highly rated PSU capable of transient spikes above the rating.
This thread on nVidia certainly supports your position:

if your oscilloscope can measure with, say, millisecond resolution then it would be normal to observe such power spikes, though I am a bit surprised that they would reach as high as 600W. While CPU and GPU power spikes are usually not in sync, quasi-simultaneous power spikes can occur and can contribute to a power supply being overwhelmed. When this happens, it most frequently manifests as random re-boots a few minutes into running a machine-learning application. This is caused by the power spike leading to a voltage drop (“brown-out”). In more severe cases, the power supply itself may shut down. . . .A properly sized PSU (power supply unit) is therefore important for HPC systems including those running AI tasks. My standing recommendation for rock-solid operation across a projected system life span of five years is to size the PSU such that the sum of the nominal power consumption of all system components does not significantly exceed 60% of the nominal power rating of the PSU. Assume 0.4W per GB of DDR4 system memory when summing the nominal power consumption of the system components."

https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/maximum-power-draw-3090/169134

However, the cards should NOT be letting that transient through.

With my current rig, I'm right about in that sweet spot of 60%.
 

LukeTbk

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Most of the time, like right now writing this response, our PSU are operating at less than 10%
Yes I would imagine and I am not sure of the math, but being 91% efficient when using 400 watt instead of 86% would rack saved kilowatt hours faster than being efficient at 91% instead of 86% at 60 watt.

10,000 hours at the more efficient low end would be about 30 kwh saved, or around $4.2 at 14 cent a kwh.
2,000 hours at 400 watt with the figure above would be $5.6

Which go toward the not so sure if it matters outside some farm type of computer or Germany price for someone mining/rendering on the machine. And the only case that would matter would probably go for the much larger PSU than needed, anyway I feel it is a bit of a mute point if you buy a new PSU for a personnal computer and far from an issue if your 1,000 PSU is 2-3% worst in the low band than a 600 watt one, if it does not make up for it in the working time it will not be a significant difference.
 

DWD1961

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Yes I would imagine and I am not sure of the math, but being 91% efficient when using 400 watt instead of 86% would rack saved kilowatt hours faster than being efficient at 91% instead of 86% at 60 watt.

10,000 hours at the more efficient low end would be about 30 kwh saved, or around $4.2 at 14 cent a kwh.
2,000 hours at 400 watt with the figure above would be $5.6

Which go toward the not so sure if it matters outside some farm type of computer or Germany price for someone mining/rendering on the machine. And the only case that would matter would probably go for the much larger PSU than needed, anyway I feel it is a bit of a mute point if you buy a new PSU for a personnal computer and far from an issue if your 1,000 PSU is 2-3% worst in the low band than a 600 watt one, if it does not make up for it in the working time it will not be a significant difference.
Yeah it doesn't matter, except for PSU initial cost.
 
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3dprophet

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Depending of what you mean by efficancy, buying a 1000w for a 550w would not be against efficancy

View attachment 495558

Efficancy peak often around 35 to 50% of a PSU max wattage, buying the double of your average relevant load could be the best efficancy wise, with modern PSU probably require a lot of workload in that windows and pricey electricity to be worth it too.

91% efficiency at 50% load vs 89% efficiency at 100% load. With modern PSUs the difference is so small that it doesn't practically matter. You will also lose efficiency at lower wattage, which negates some of the savings at high load.

Unless you run your PC at a fixed load all the time, it doesn't make sense to buy based on efficiency curves.
 

Darunion

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I always pick a supply that under load is around 75% of its capability. Nice to not run a supply close to its limit as well as leave a little headroom.
 

Operaghost

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I wouldn't go with a 27. 32 inch can be had for nearly the same price. I got this one in Dec 2020 and have had no problems at all with it. Going for 279.00 right now on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/GIGABYTE-G32QC-Monitor-Response-FreeSync/dp/B0926ZVM75/ref=sr_1_1?crid=14VN14NB8RILH&keywords=GIGABYTE+G32QC+32"&qid=1658952251&s=electronics&sprefix=gigabyte+g32qc+32+,electronics,116&sr=1-1
I've been eyeballing the M32Q, Its another $110 or so, but it is an IPS panel instead of the curved VA panel.
 

DWD1961

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91% efficiency at 50% load vs 89% efficiency at 100% load. With modern PSUs the difference is so small that it doesn't practically matter. You will also lose efficiency at lower wattage, which negates some of the savings at high load.

Unless you run your PC at a fixed load all the time, it doesn't make sense to buy based on efficiency curves.
Modern computer PSUs are pretty amazing, especially compared to the PSU we use to get when we bought a case. Yeah, cases use to come with installed PSUs. That was way, way back in the day, in the 90s. And as shitty as they were with ripple and etc., we never had one destroy any hardware. Power usage was another matter, but yeah, doesn't matter now. They are all so efficient and clean.
 

LukeTbk

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Unless you run your PC at a fixed load all the time, it doesn't make sense to buy based on efficiency curves.
Yes that was exactly my point, that it was not crazy to buy a 1000 watt for a lower system fearing a lack of PSU efficiency (even using quite extreme worst case with today new hardware).
 

SHAB

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I'm sorry but I find your advice to be terrible.
Paying up for a 1000+ watt PSU when my system will draw maybe 550 at any given time is just a flat waste of money.
So is buying a "better" CPU because it has more cores. Cores are for multi-threading. I'm not using my PC for compiling code, or video compression, or high demand editing, none of that. So it makes zero sense to spend up on a CPU for features I won't use.

It all depends on your use case, for me I came from a 4 core in 2012 and I thought it was still fine when I play modern games but sometimes it gets certain stutters or frame drops from time to time. That's why I upgraded to an 8 core and I found out my computer became super smooth and responsive even when just operating it outside of games. Over time software changes, games changes and your use case changes too. The reason I got over on the power supply is cause I don't want to touch all the power supplies cables once I got my case down. Also the fact is when you upgrade your parts who knows in the future when components need more power or more power limits are increased because of it. I just get a new mobo ,cpu combo (maybe ram) and its a much easier process since all the cables are mostly there unless certain things change of course on the mobo itself.

If you wish you can just watch this guy I do tend to listen to for advice and opinions.

This one is from July 2021, but may hold some relevant information:

This one was from Last week regarding cpus:


There are more information on his channel about frame times and tests between hardware he has reviewed but this is just a glance on what he has experienced and discovered.
 
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jacuzz1

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You don't have any experience with Thermalright? Wow, I thought everyone had tried one by now. Pendragon1 speaks the truth. Reviews are out there for the assassin, check one out. Heres a quick rundown of Thermalright. Their fans are top notch and their heatsink quality equals or exceeds the best in the business. Don't let the price of the assassin fool you, its badass. They've been producing excellent heatsinks, fans, thermal pastes/pads and accessories longer than most companies have been around, including Noctua.
There aren't many companies I will recommend over Noctua but Thermalright is usually #1.
Thanks, perhaps on my next build
 

Operaghost

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Ok, so here is my new rig: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/NorseKnight/saved/VprLcf

Although, I think I might have to return the 650W PSU and get something with more juice.....the PCPP build says the system will draw 511W, but the ASRock website recommends 900 for the GPU itself, lol.

Could anyone recommend a quality built PSU please?
I know PC Power and Cooling used to be the go to for a quality PSU, don't know if they are still a big player in the industry anymore though.
 

jlbenedict

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Ok, so here is my new rig: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/NorseKnight/saved/VprLcf

Although, I think I might have to return the 650W PSU and get something with more juice.....the PCPP build says the system will draw 511W, but the ASRock website recommends 900 for the GPU itself, lol.

Could anyone recommend a quality built PSU please?
I know PC Power and Cooling used to be the go to for a quality PSU, don't know if they are still a big player in the industry anymore though.

Put it all in here and you'll get a better idea of system draw
https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator
 

pendragon1

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Ok, so here is my new rig: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/NorseKnight/saved/VprLcf

Although, I think I might have to return the 650W PSU and get something with more juice.....the PCPP build says the system will draw 511W, but the ASRock website recommends 900 for the GPU itself, lol.

Could anyone recommend a quality built PSU please?
I know PC Power and Cooling used to be the go to for a quality PSU, don't know if they are still a big player in the industry anymore though.

skip the calc. just get an evga or corsair or silverstone or any of the other highly rates psus in the 1000w range.
 

pendragon1

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That's a lot of wasted cash if I only need a 750W or so...
no its not. you need minimum what the gpu recommends, not what some out of date online calc or forum opinions say. you said "ASRock website recommends 900 for the GPU itself", so get a 1000w as i havent seen 900w in a while. this is also if you do not intend to overclock at all, if so, bump to 1200w.
 

Operaghost

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no its not. you need minimum what the gpu recommends, not what some out of date online calc or forum opinions say. you said "ASRock website recommends 900 for the GPU itself", so get a 1000w as i havent seen 900w in a while. this is also if you do not intend to overclock at all, if so, bump to 1200w.
I've seen multiple completed builds on PCPP, of people running 750/850W PSU's with similar CPU's and a 6900XT, so I really don't think 1000W is needed. I will compare pricing to see if I think the extra cost of a 1000W is worth it.
 

3dprophet

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Manufacturer recommendations are super conservative because they don't know what else you have in your system. What CPU, overclocking, etc.

For example nvidia recommends a 650W for 3060Ti. 3060Ti in a system with a Ryzen 3600 barely draws 300W. Of course you have to factor in transients, but the idea is they are just rules of thumb that are meant to work for all systems.

The price difference between 650 and 750 is very small. Go with at least 750.

Whether you need to go 850 or 1000 is debatable. i5 doesn't use a lot of power. Going with an oversized PSU, you can upgrade to a more power hungry CPU later though. That is the main advantage imo.
 
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Operaghost

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Manufacturer recommendations are super conservative because they don't know what else you have in your system. What CPU, overclocking, etc.

For example nvidia recommends a 650W for 3060Ti. 3060Ti in a system with a Ryzen 3600 barely draws 300W. Of course you have to factor in transients, but the idea is they are just rules of thumb that are meant to work for all systems.

The price difference between 650 and 750 is very small. Go with at least 750.

Whether you need to go 850 or 1000 is debatable. i5 doesn't use a lot of power. Going with an oversized PSU, you can upgrade to a more power hungry CPU later though. That is the main advantage imo.

Thanks, that's pretty much how I was taking the "recommended Watts" too. It's like the expiration date on your milk.

I think I'm going to pick a quality 850W off this list: https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/
 

hititnquitit

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Thanks, that's pretty much how I was taking the "recommended Watts" too. It's like the expiration date on your milk.

I think I'm going to pick a quality 850W off this list: https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/

Just be sure to check out some reviews on the ones your interested in, from someone/where that's trustworthy. The trend nowadays is for people to call themselves doing a review when in fact it's nothing more than an unboxing and guesstimate as to the units viability. Many of these so called reviewers don't even have proper testing gear.
 

Operaghost

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Just be sure to check out some reviews on the ones your interested in, from someone/where that's trustworthy. The trend nowadays is for people to call themselves doing a review when in fact it's nothing more than an unboxing and guesstimate as to the units viability. Many of these so called reviewers don't even have proper testing gear.
I linked my resource. That list is done through legitimate reviews of industry professionals
 

pendragon1

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make sure you post here if/when you have crashing so i dont miss it....
 

hititnquitit

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The G6 is solid. It's a Seasonic built unit which is as good as it gets. EVGA stands behind their gear and is known as one of the best customer and tech support companies you can deal with.

The MSI is CWT built, (they build many of corsairs top end units) also solid but MSI customer and ts well... their a mb manufacturer lol. I would look elsewhere. There are much better companies to sink your loot into. Stick with the G6 series for a 1000w unit if you go that route (you won't find a better deal on a Seasonic built psu) or a Seasonic focus gold unit, Corsair rmx or a SuperFlower unit, which can usually be caught on sale for sub $150.

The reason Asrock suggests a 900w psu isn't just to cover all of the different hardware configurations. It's also to specifically avoid people having to deal with the very aggravating issue of transient spikes. I don't know if you have researched it but it will basically insta crash your system consistently. The only way to guarantee avoiding it is to either go with a psu company that has acknowledged the problem and fixed it (Seasonic is the only one I know of). Or go a bit over what the gpu manufacturer suggests.
 

SHAB

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Ok, so here is my new rig: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/NorseKnight/saved/VprLcf

Although, I think I might have to return the 650W PSU and get something with more juice.....the PCPP build says the system will draw 511W, but the ASRock website recommends 900 for the GPU itself, lol.

Could anyone recommend a quality built PSU please?
I know PC Power and Cooling used to be the go to for a quality PSU, don't know if they are still a big player in the industry anymore though.
I like how you changed your tune in regarding power supplies. Like i said before don't skimp on the one important Piece of equipment more than anything else. If your PSU can't provide enough juice to your system safely then it will abruptly shutdown which is bad. I have my own personal Corsair HX 1200i, but for your situation you can go for the Corsair RMx 1000 watts around $189, but who knows if there are deals in your local pc stores or such.
 
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Operaghost

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I like how you changed your tune in regarding power supplies. Like i said before don't skimp on the one important Piece of equipment more than anything else. If your PSU can't provide enough juice to your system safely then it will abruptly shutdown which is bad. I have my own personal Corsair HX 1200i, but for your situation you can go for the Corsair RMx 1000 watts around $189, but who knows if there are deals in your local pc stores or such.
Yah, I still don't think I'm going to splurge on the 1000W. Paying almost double the cost for 150W seems silly to me. I'm pretty confident that an 850W will suffice just fine, even with transients.
 
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SHAB

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If you are sure you are not going to replace your cpu or gpu in the future at all then go with the 850, but if you are it will be wise to go higher on the PSU.
 

3dprophet

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We used to use PSUs that came pre-installed in our cases without even thinking.

Now we need 1kw PSUs because we are worried about transients?

It seems like we were men back then, now we are something else...
 

Operaghost

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We used to use PSUs that came pre-installed in our cases without even thinking.

Now we need 1kw PSUs because we are worried about transients?

It seems like we were men back then, now we are something else...

We were also using 100 mhz CPUs and there was no such thing as a GPU, it was a graphics card. Likely a Monster Voodoo....that probably had a power draw of like 3 watts
 
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