Time Capsule: HardOCP Hardware Community Workshop Sponsored by Yamaha Multimedia. 12-20-2002

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
55,601
So, I was cleaning the cupboards...

This was a true agnostic tech community event and while we have not been able to get together physically for a while (2021), I thought I would put this archived video online. I don't think it has been available for over 15 years online. A sort of a time capsule. Our event got too large to fit into our rented venue, so AMD (which just happened to be in the next room) let us spill over into their event area once we moved a couple of walls. Anand Shimpi was there to speak, Alex Ross of SharkyExtreme had to cancel because of family issues. I truly think events like this epitomized "tech community" back in the day. AMD, ATi, NVIDIA, and many others all in the same room, "just talking tech" in an open format. We had about $20K in prizes, yet-to-be-released hardware running demos, and a smart group of people asking questions, and a couple of tech journalists giving honest answers. A hell of a fun time. I hope this bit of nostalgia is well received.

 
Ian (not Anand) eventually does address electromigration. Only had to wait a decade or so...
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15839/electromigration-amd-ryzen-current-boosting-wont-kill-your-cpu

Maybe Anand didn't hear my question properly? I can't properly hear myself in that video.
Went off on some unrelated tangent about logic levels in response to a "stupid" question.
Or was you that called it stupid, thanks...

Like the time I brought a 1500W capillary pumped loop dismissed as a watercooler.
Pearls before swine...
 
At 32:12, he not only describes a theoretical concept of dual-core CPUs, and then goes onto describe what would eventually become big.LITTLE.
These were two concepts that, at least with x86 and ARM ISAs, were basically science fiction at the time and now have long since become extremely commonplace in each's respective architectures.

That was some incredibly forward-thinking in 2002.
Thank you very much for posting this, Kyle, this is a wonderful look back on where we were with technology, and the then emerging concepts at the time.

You were definitely right - that guy did indeed know his shit! (y)
 
KD5ZXG said:
Maybe Anand didn't hear my question properly? I can't properly hear myself in that video.
Went off on some unrelated tangent about logic levels in response to a "stupid" question.
Or was you that called it stupid, thanks...
Click to expand...
No, was NOT a stupid question, and it got totally sidelined. And no, I called it a stupid question, to get a laugh, nothing more, nothing less. If you listen, I actually say that it is a great question.
 
Red Falcon said:
At 32:12, he not only describes a theoretical concept of dual-core CPUs, and then goes onto describe what would eventually become big.LITTLE.
These were two concepts that, at least with x86 and ARM ISAs, were basically science fiction at the time and now have long since become extremely commonplace in each's respective architectures.

That was some incredibly forward-thinking in 2002.
Thank you very much for posting this, Kyle, this is a wonderful look back on where we were with technology, and the then emerging concepts at the time.

You were definitely right - that guy did indeed know his shit! (y)
Click to expand...
Watching the whole thing now as well. "V-Cache" was actually addressed too. LOL!

Anand is one of the smartest people I have ever met. Always listen to him. :)
 
Red Falcon said:
At 32:12, he not only describes a theoretical concept of dual-core CPUs, and then goes onto describe what would eventually become big.LITTLE.
These were two concepts that, at least with x86 and ARM ISAs, were basically science fiction at the time and now have long since become extremely commonplace in each's respective architectures.

That was some incredibly forward-thinking in 2002.
Thank you very much for posting this, Kyle, this is a wonderful look back on where we were with technology, and the then emerging concepts at the time.

You were definitely right - that guy did indeed know his shit! (y)
Click to expand...
big.little already existed in every arcade system in the 1980s. I's called a sound co-processor!

Later systems like the Nintendo DS combined it all on a single chip (a decade before ARM imagined it). PS2 also did the same thing with it's second MIPS R3000A core for PS1 compatibility /

Non-uniform multiprocessing has always been a thing, in any device where you have a high performance-per-dollar requirement, it's just become more popular now that high-level OSes have made it seamless
 
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defaultluser said:
big.little malady existed in every arcade system in the 1980s. I's called a sound co-processor,

Later systems like the Nintendo DS combined it all on a single chip (decades befor ARM imagined it). PS2 als did the same thing with it's second core for PS1 compat /

Non-uniform multiprocessing has always been a thing,, in any device where you have a high performance-per-dollar requirement
Click to expand...
Ha! You're right, especially with those arcade machines, and the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive, pairing the main m68k 68000 CPU with the ZiLOG Z80 sound co-processor.
Good point!
 
I'm laughing at the 15 minute mark, where the fool says that SMP and HTwon't cause any confusion are the exact sam e software target; I recall ten years of manufacturers randomly slopping together early multi-core performance updates, like the later Battlefield games that were slower with HT :LOL:

There's a lot to cache issues and hT performance scaling
 
FrgMstr said:
So, I was cleaning the cupboards...

This was a true agnostic tech community event and while we have not been able to get together physically for a while (2021), I thought I would put this archived video online. I don't think it has been available for over 15 years online. A sort of a time capsule. Our event got too large to fit into our rented venue, so AMD (which just happened to be in the next room) let us spill over into their event area once we moved a couple of walls. Anand Shimpi was there to speak, Alex Ross of SharkyExtreme had to cancel because of family issues. I truly think events like this epitomized "tech community" back in the day. AMD, ATi, NVIDIA, and many others all in the same room, "just talking tech" in an open format. We had about $20K in prizes, yet-to-be-released hardware running demos, and a smart group of people asking questions, and a couple of tech journalists giving honest answers. A hell of a fun time. I hope this bit of nostalgia is well received.

Click to expand...


This is why, although hardware and tech have come a long way, we are missing something that used to be available back then, in the tech community.
 
ManofGod said:
This is why, although hardware and tech have come a long way, we are missing something that used to be available back then, in the tech community.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the big chip conferences will always be there, but these smaller gatherings told the tech-inclined masses what to expect\

At least Ian Cutress continues the Anand deep-dives tradition! (as long as you don't mind reading)
 
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nice blast from the not-too-distant past...Anand is living the good life at Apple...AnandTech hasn't been the same since he left...where was DFI at the event?...LANParty motherboard giveaways!
 
polonyc2 said:
nice blast from the not-too-distant past...Anand is living the good life at Apple...AnandTech hasn't been the same since he left...where was DFI at the event?...LANParty motherboard giveaways!
Click to expand...
Agree that it seems like the not too distant past... however its still been almost 20 years.

I never used any of the DFI LanParty Boards, but Abit.. man, there is a name. Just need to mix with danger den and some maze blocks to really take me back in time.
 
Watched the whole thing through, very enjoyable.

Man.. I was young in 02 lol! Nostalgia for some of the parts being discussed is high because of how enamored I felt for hardware in those days.

I also don't remember everybody being so angry and fighting about their PC hardware views back then either :p.. Sure wish we could go back, but we can't, so we might as well curse at each other because my opinions about 3090 pricing are better!
 
Mode13 said:
Watched the whole thing through, very enjoyable.

Man.. I was young in 02 lol! Nostalgia for some of the parts being discussed is high because of how enamored I felt for hardware in those days.

I also don't remember everybody being so angry and fighting about their PC hardware views back then either :p.. Sure wish we could go back, but we can't, so we might as well curse at each other because my opinions about 3090 pricing are better!
Click to expand...
Oh they did. We used to fight about cpu mostly; once 3dfx checked out Nvidia was the clear winner until the 9700 Pro landed. There was a lot of Thunderbird vs CuMine arguments, then there was the FX vs 9700 arguments and it switched way more to GPUs.

They always get most stirred when things are close. Zen2 vs 10th gen. North wood vs early Athlon64. And so on..: because there’s nit picking over minor details. When one is clearly ahead (Sandy bridge vs... whatever the heck AMD was doing then - Bulldozer? Piledriver?), it’s much quieter. We’re all building the same thing during those times.
 
I think the only time I ended up meeting with a bunch of the Tech Crew were during the AMD Reality Check event in St. Louis at Windows On Washington back in, 2002 ? I guess. I probably still have some of the Mints tbh.
 
lopoetve said:
Oh they did. We used to fight about cpu mostly; once 3dfx checked out Nvidia was the clear winner until the 9700 Pro landed. There was a lot of Thunderbird vs CuMine arguments, then there was the FX vs 9700 arguments and it switched way more to GPUs.

They always get most stirred when things are close. Zen2 vs 10th gen. North wood vs early Athlon64. And so on..: because there’s nit picking over minor details. When one is clearly ahead (Sandy bridge vs... whatever the heck AMD was doing then - Bulldozer? Piledriver?), it’s much quieter. We’re all building the same thing during those times.
Click to expand...

I guess I just don't remember arguments being as aggressive as they are today. I can go make a post about the latest sound blaster card on [insert any other tech forum] and somebody will quickly show up to suggest I pull my lip over my head and swallow for being so dumb as to still use an internal sound card!

It's also possible that I was just a teenager and always assumed people were joking back then when they would make nasty comments (like that question was STUPID in Kyles video :p). That and I sadly didn't grow up on Hardforum, we seem to have an older and more relaxed crowd here ...
 
Mode13 said:
I guess I just don't remember arguments being as aggressive as they are today. I can go make a post about the latest sound blaster card on [insert any other tech forum] and somebody will quickly show up to suggest I pull my lip over my head and swallow for being so dumb as to still use an internal sound card!

It's also possible that I was just a teenager and always assumed people were joking back then when they would make nasty comments (like that question was STUPID in Kyles video :p). That and I sadly didn't grow up on Hardforum, we seem to have an older and more relaxed crowd here ...
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You missed princessfrosty in the video card forum back when FX5800 came out. I had to explain how dropping to a 16 bit memory bus was a loss in precision vs 24 bit that couldn’t be “made up” later. Etc. there were lots of hard fights back then too.
 
lopoetve said:
You missed princessfrosty in the video card forum back when FX5800 came out. I had to explain how dropping to a 16 bit memory bus was a loss in precision vs 24 bit that couldn’t be “made up” later. Etc. there were lots of hard fights back then too.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree with Mode. "In the old days" it felt like there could be some spirited discussion, but it was more two people with differing options going back and forth. Today there seems to be an abundance of crapping on things just to crap on them... no actual differing perspective or alternate beliefs, just being negative to be negative.
Still sad i lost my original [H] login. Pretty sure i had it tied to an old email that is long since gone, and i cannot remember the exact name....
Now i just go by how most at work refer to me.
 
Not sure I made it to this one or not. Was this one where we had to be bussed from an Intel sponsored CPL to another location?
 
ThatITGuy said:
I tend to agree with Mode. "In the old days" it felt like there could be some spirited discussion, but it was more two people with differing options going back and forth. Today there seems to be an abundance of crapping on things just to crap on them... no actual differing perspective or alternate beliefs, just being negative to be negative.
Still sad i lost my original [H] login. Pretty sure i had it tied to an old email that is long since gone, and i cannot remember the exact name....
Now i just go by how most at work refer to me.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there's definitely more crapping now than there was back then - and there was more discussion to be had then too - but we did have some pretty big fights in the old days too.
 
lopoetve said:
You missed princessfrosty in the video card forum back when FX5800 came out. I had to explain how dropping to a 16 bit memory bus was a loss in precision vs 24 bit that couldn’t be “made up” later. Etc. there were lots of hard fights back then too.
Click to expand...
The HD 2900 XT release was epic. First time I prominently heard the "wait for the drivers" excuse constantly and the threads here quickly devolved to personal attacks.
 
Armenius said:
The HD 2900 XT release was epic. First time I prominently heard the "wait for the drivers" excuse constantly and the threads here quickly devolved to personal attacks.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah. I forgot about that; my 6800GT was still doing fine and I jumped to the refresh 8800GT. That wasn’t a close battle even; no one sane bought the AMD parts then. But people still tried to defend them...

(And I had the 9500/9700/9800; no fanboy, just better kit)
 
Oh man, some names I haven't heard of in forever, Abit, Tyan, SHARKYEXTREME... Jeez... To make a car analogy, Richard Hammond on Top Gear made a perfect one. When reviewing a recent Lambo, he said, yes, they are fast, but they are boring now. They are too reliable now, too stable, no drama. I feel the same with modern hardware.

I built my 5800x with a 3080 and I've never had a system go up so quickly, so easily, so effortlessly. While that is good in one measure, the complete lack of drama means it takes less skill, less knowledge to get a great system going. We've never had it so good.
 
OFaceSIG said:
Oh man, some names I haven't heard of in forever, Abit, Tyan, SHARKYEXTREME... Jeez... To make a car analogy, Richard Hammond on Top Gear made a perfect one. When reviewing a recent Lambo, he said, yes, they are fast, but they are boring now. They are too reliable now, too stable, no drama. I feel the same with modern hardware.

I built my 5800x with a 3080 and I've never had a system go up so quickly, so easily, so effortlessly. While that is good in one measure, the complete lack of drama means it takes less skill, less knowledge to get a great system going. We've never had it so good.
Click to expand...

I'd add that the early days (and I'm taking 8086/8088 era) was pretty care-free, as well. DOS 6.xx and some classic games that ran perfectly (or close to it) since "release early and patch later" wasn't a possibility until broadband became widespread.
 
DejaWiz said:
I'd add that the early days (and I'm taking 8086/8088 era) was pretty care-free, as well. DOS 6.xx and some classic games that ran perfectly (or close to it) since "release early and patch later" wasn't a possibility until broadband became widespread.
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Minus tuning free conventional ram. Those were fun times.
 
lopoetve said:
still a proudest moment for me: 604k free with mouse and EMM and sound drivers. I fiddled the placement of those drivers by hand and I did it.
Click to expand...
I think I topped out at 601K free. It was crazy how the boot order mattered to final size of the tsr programs. “Loadmemhigh”
 
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