The 6500xt and 6400: Meet your next gpu, PC gaming peasants.

1_rick said:
Hah. Those 3050s are gonna go for $400, except you won't find any because the scalpers will get them.
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Right, and that's why a 4GB version could be closer to $300 and much less attractive to miners. With nvidia's good compression and full pci-e bandwidth, it could still perform like the 8 GB version in most games with slightly reduced settings.
 
thecold said:
At least it's going to be a card likely worth buying for pci-e 3 users. I'm betting it'll be faster than a 1060... unlike the 6500xt.
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Except that the original premise of there being budget buyers with no money goes completely out the window. How can you not have $80 to ensure you have PCI-E 4.0 but have $400+ to buy a different card? This logically doesn't make any sense. The 3050 almost certainly will NOT be a $250, 300, or even $400 card. It's going to be a $600 card. So people are making assumptions on a cards value that's completely not realistic. Not a single reviewer really owned up to this fact that the actual price of it's "competitors" are going to be hundreds of dollars more.
 
The only PCIE 4 systems are 11th and 12th gen Intel CPUs on a 500 series or 600 series board or Ryzen 3000 or 5000 CPUs (not the APUs because they are limited to PCIE 3.0) and B550 and X570 boards. So if someone has a system that is what 3 or more years old then the 6500xt is all but useless. The only use case I can see is as a place holder in a new or existing build that has PCIE 4 and that's about it. People that have 1060s, Rx 570,580, 590 and are on 6th- 10th gen Intel or AMD 300 or 400 series boards still have no new card in the $2-300 price range to upgrade to going on 5 years later.. People in that category are way better off saving 4-500 for a better GPU as opposed to building a new system to then drop in this placeholder. Even then they are better carrying that 1060 etc. to the next machine and saving for something else. Its frustrating but right now budget gamers are still looking for something new for entry level gaming. The 6500xt is a hard pass unless one is truly desperate. Its just too cut down and even at 200 bucks leaves a lot to be desired.
 
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kac77 said:
Except that the original premise of there being budget buyers with no money goes completely out the window. How can you not have $80 to ensure you have PCI-E 4.0 but have $400+ to buy a different card? This logically doesn't make any sense. The 3050 almost certainly will NOT be a $250, 300, or even $400 card. It's going to be a $600 card. So people are making assumptions on a cards value that's completely not realistic. Not a single reviewer really owned up to this fact that the actual price of it's "competitors" are going to be hundreds of dollars more.
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It's not 80 dollars to ensure you have a pci-e 4, it's a motherboard and processor. That includes the time that someone may or may not have the skills to replace (at least it'll fit in most power requirements). In some cases, it's an entirely new pc.

Both choices are logical. Just like buying a used gpu. Assuming your gpu is actually slower than this half baked gpu. The pci-e 3 hit is substantial. Enough, that it might put it below whatever budget gpu you already have.

Current processors that support pci-e 4
amd 3xxx
amd 5xxx
intel 11xxx
intel 12xxx

That's it.
 
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thecold said:
It's not 80 dollars to ensure you have a pci-e 4, it's a motherboard and processor. That includes the time that someone may or may not have the skills to replace (at least it'll fit in most power requirements). In some cases, it's an entirely new pc.

Both choices are logical. Just like buying a used gpu. Assuming your gpu is actually slower than this half baked gpu. The pci-e 3 hit is substantial. Enough, that it might put it below whatever budget gpu you already have.

Current processors that support pci-e 4
amd 3xxx
amd 5xxx
intel 12xxx

That's it.
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Yep, and this list excludes the 5600g/5700g and alot of motherboards.
 
thecold said:
It's not 80 dollars to ensure you have a pci-e 4, it's a motherboard and processor. That includes the time that someone may or may not have the skills to replace (at least it'll fit in most power requirements). In some cases, it's an entirely new pc.

Both choices are logical. Just like buying a used gpu. Assuming your gpu is actually slower than this half baked gpu. The pci-e 3 hit is substantial. Enough, that it might put it below whatever budget gpu you already have.

Current processors that support pci-e 4
amd 3xxx
amd 5xxx
intel 12xxx

That's it.
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You're assuming that the person didn't buy any of the processors known to support it you can mix and match processors and MBs. The amount of SKU's available don't dictate purchase price. No one is discounting the impact of PCI-E 3.0. But at the same time telling people well just save $500 to buy a better video card or used and yet at the same time they couldn't get the MB or processor even though both are cheaper COMBINED is ridiculous.

The Intel platform this current generation is even cheaper to build.
 
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Considering how many B350, X370, B450, X470 motherboards still in use with Ryzen 1st, 2nd, 3rd . . . all limited to pcie 3.0 in addition of a much larger pcie 3 Intel systems base -> terrible release from AMD and really looks to be a money grab at best to put out the cheapest to make card with mediocre to very poor performance for the money. OEMs may suck up these cards if available, not saying much. It would be hard to consider even if under $130, even the power requirements makes it pointless for a low power system or small iTX case. Biggest fail of this generation and actually makes AMD look bad, investors may like the money grab for Stock price. Amazing that AMD can make Nvidia actually look good.
 
As you may know, Steve drum Techspot tested the 5500xt 4 GB running PCIe 3.0 v 4.0 at x4 to get a possible preview of the 6500xt. The tests where both the 5500xt and 6500xt averaged at least 60fps were F1, Doom, RE:8, R6:S, SoTR, AC:V, WatchDogs, Horizon Zero, and FarCry6.

Performance drop for the 6500xt was 25, 52, 15, 26, 28, 9, 8, 26, and 17% respectfully.
For the 5500xt, drops were 5, 53, 2, 25, 25, 14, 30, 18, and 42%

Average 23% for the 6500xt and 24% for the 5500xt 4 GB.

Bottom line, likely, none of the internal bandwidth configurations really matter when the card flat out runs out of vram. The only thing that matters is how fast it can borrow from the system memory.

This was AMDs scummy way of pushing people to upgrade to their new platforms.
 
OKC Yeakey Trentadue said:
This was AMDs scummy way of pushing people to upgrade to their new platforms.
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Could it not simply be that the market make it possible to release a laptop GPU with minimal work on desktop (and the laptop GPU would have been 100% oem and 100% controlled to never be on pci-express 3.0 device and maybe even on APU cpu has a secondary GPU which would make perfectly sensical to have no encoding/decoding and very low monitor supports and so on) and never in an upgrade scenario ?
 
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LukeTbk said:
Could it not simply be that the market make it possible to release a laptop GPU with minimal work on desktop (and the laptop GPU would have been 100% oem and 100% controlled to never be on pci-express 3.0 device) and never in an upgrade scenario ?
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Nope, has to intentionally be scummy practices. Couldn't possibly be that this is what $200 looks like in todays GPU market where people are selling years old cards for more than they went new.
 
OKC Yeakey Trentadue said:
As you may know, Steve drum Techspot tested the 5500xt 4 GB running PCIe 3.0 v 4.0 at x4 to get a possible preview of the 6500xt. The tests where both the 5500xt and 6500xt averaged at least 60fps were F1, Doom, RE:8, R6:S, SoTR, AC:V, WatchDogs, Horizon Zero, and FarCry6.

Performance drop for the 6500xt was 25, 52, 15, 26, 28, 9, 8, 26, and 17% respectfully.
For the 5500xt, drops were 5, 53, 2, 25, 25, 14, 30, 18, and 42%

Average 23% for the 6500xt and 24% for the 5500xt 4 GB.

Bottom line, likely, none of the internal bandwidth configurations really matter when the card flat out runs out of vram. The only thing that matters is how fast it can borrow from the system memory.

This was AMDs scummy way of pushing people to upgrade to their new platforms.
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I disagree man, my GTX 960 2GB can run most modern games at the 4GB limit (thanks to swapping at 16x PCIe 3, , plus the uncastrated memory bus!)

The VRAM CAPACITY of that card is a symptom, but what kills it is because they castrated the rest of the card first! Doubling the amount of VRAM in a GT 1030 wouldn't make a difference if it's already running DDR4! Fix bandwidth problems first, and then you can finagle your way through a set of custom settings!
 
whateverer said:
I disagree man, my GTX 960 2GB can run most modern games at the 4GB limit (thanks to swapping at 16x PCIe 3, , plus the uncastrated memory bus!)

The VRAM CAPACITY of that card is a symptom, but what kills it is because they castrated the rest of the card first! Doubling the amount of VRAM in a GT 1030 wouldn't make a difference if it's already running DDR4! Fix bandwidth problems first, and then you can finagle your way through a set of custom settings!
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I am not sure which post I misunderstand, because to me you seem to be saying the exact thing about the pci-express bandwith issue being the issue ( thing that matters is how fast it can borrow from the system memory).
 
NightReaver said:
Nope, has to intentionally be scummy practices. Couldn't possibly be that this is what $200 looks like in todays GPU market where people are selling years old cards for more than they went new.
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I say we should take a stand and boycott AMD then.
 
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NightReaver said:
Nope, has to intentionally be scummy practices. Couldn't possibly be that this is what $200 looks like in todays GPU market where people are selling years old cards for more than they went new.
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Be that as it may, how would that stop AMD from making a new frofitable product with descent performance this driving the prices of those older cards down?

Simply using pci-e x8 or x16 with video encoding would have done that easily
 
OKC Yeakey Trentadue said:
Be that as it may, how would that stop AMD from making a new frofitable product with descent performance this driving the prices of those older cards down?

Simply using pci-e x8 or x16 with video encoding would have done that easily
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You could all be right, but how much are you confident that will have been simple to that change that already made mobile GPU to use the pci-express and add encoding to it ?
 
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ZodaEX said:
I say we should take a stand and boycott AMD then.
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I knew I wasn't touching this card as soon as it was reported that it was castrated to be 4x pcie and no AV1 decode. Some decided to defend AMD because recently they have been championed as some kind of savior when they are just another business. My money goes to the best products at the best price, logo be damned.
 
ZeroBarrier said:
Some decided to defend AMD because recently they have been championed as some kind of savior when they are just another business. My money goes to the best products at the best price, logo be damned.
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Yeah I really don't understand the fanboying for a giant corporate entity. AMD is no champion of the consumer. They brought competition back in the CPU performance space (raised prices with Zen 3 when they did so) and in raster performance on GPUs, but that doesn't mean they aren't going to test the waters for how scummy they can get in anti-consumer behavior just like Nvidia our Intel when they do it.
 
OKC Yeakey Trentadue said:
The sarcasm is cute, but upon release of the 6500xt, everyone here is criticizing the product and NOT the brand. Some just have it in their head that we are attacking their corporate daddy.

"Accuse the other side of which you are guilty"
-Saul Alinsky
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I'm not being sarcastic. I'm never buying another AMD product again in my life.
 
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Tech jesus (little j) was a bit hard on it. When you consider the garbage that ships with a lot of the prebuilts. I didn't find the tear down revealing anything bad. IMHO, looked pretty good for a bad cheap card (when compared to some of the prebuilts).

I think they needed to put out a video, they had a card they didn't like (for good reasons) and tried their darndest to find fault in the assembly, which again wasn't nearly as bad as what we've seen from GN.
 
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Yeah the card was pretty well built, had multiple heatpipes and a metal backplate. Most cheap cards use extruded aluminum heatsinks with no heatpipes. The core itself is disappointing, but the card wasnt trash tier build quality. The big issue is that it was a rejiggered laptop part, and that caused a lot of the issues it suffers from.
 
Sir Beregond said:
Happy to report I went to my local Micro Center last night and a whole case of these 6500 XTs appear to just be sitting. Don't see any evidence anyone bought one all day.
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Would have been relavent for you to include the price they were sitting there with.
 
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