Texas Instruments makes it harder to run programs on its calculators

Zarathustra[H]

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You know, I never downloaded a single program on any of my calculators.

You needed that special cable, and I never bought it.

What can I say, I was a geek who actually paid attention in class, and preferred my games on my PC :p

Come to think of it, I should probably check if this TI-84 Plus CE is wifi enabled.

That sound like the kind of thing a parent should be aware of...
 

Zarathustra[H]

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You know, I never downloaded a single program on any of my calculators.

You needed that special cable, and I never bought it.

What can I say, I was a geek who actually paid attention in class, and preferred my games on my PC :p

Come to think of it, I should probably check if this TI-84 Plus CE is wifi enabled.

That sound like the kind of thing a parent should be aware of...


Also, I just remembered something.

Towards the end of our college career, my friends and I decided to have some fun crashing remedial math classes.

My friends needed some easy extra credits to graduate. I didn't (because engineering, there almost no choices, every damn class and credit was required to graduate) but I attended for shits and giggles.

We are taking like awful remedial math. You know, teaching college aged kids how to make change, and count apples. Eye-roll worthy.

We would do stupid shit like bring booze to the final and offer to the kids in the lecture hall. It was pretty funny.

Anyway, that lecture hall was set up to interface with TI calculators. You would plug in your calculator at your seat, log in with a user name and password, and answer in class quizzes on your TI calculator. That system probably didn't age well.

I was wondering if it still works with the modern versions, but it is probably moot, as all the kids bring laptops to class these days.

In all of my college career I saw one kid typing in class, and he was taking notes on some sort of Palm Pilot device with a roll out portable keyboard. He got made fun of pretty bad.
 

LigTasm

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You know, I never downloaded a single program on any of my calculators.

You needed that special cable, and I never bought it.

What can I say, I was a geek who actually paid attention in class, and preferred my games on my PC :p

Come to think of it, I should probably check if this TI-84 Plus CE is wifi enabled.

That sound like the kind of thing a parent should be aware of...

I'm mathematically retarded. I just can't. I really liked physics because I enjoy the idea of finding out how things work, but I cannot keep up with it at all. Almost failed that class, to be fair I think the teacher passed me just because I tried my best and not for my scores. After that I gave up and played phoenix on the calculator in the other math involved classes.
 

Starfalcon

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I have an old casio fx-991D solar calculator that I got back in the early 90's. Still works great, with no need to worry about batteries. Its pretty banged up, but I still use it to this day.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I'm mathematically retarded. I just can't. I really liked physics because I enjoy the idea of finding out how things work, but I cannot keep up with it at all. Almost failed that class, to be fair I think the teacher passed me just because I tried my best and not for my scores. After that I gave up and played phoenix on the calculator in the other math involved classes.

I did the International Baccalaureate Diploma Programme in Sweden. Essentially the IB Diploma Program is parallel to the standard education system in the country you are in and takes place during the final two years of high school. You choose three higher level classes, three subsidiary classes, and then you have Theory of Knowledge (a kind of philosophy of learning class) an Extended Essay (a mini-dissertation) in one of your higher level classes, and a bunch of community service (CAS, Community Action Service) requirements in order to graduate.

It's an old school "examination" based program. In order words, no credit or grades at all for your entire High School career, with everything settled in two weeks of high stakes examinations at the end after which you handed in your extended essay, and proof of community service.

It's essentially a 2 year academic boot camp with all of your classes making AP level courses seem like child's play.

It is a high burnout environment resulting in a lot of memes:

1664936158288.png
1664936179356.png


(A level's are the British equivalent to our AP courses)

I remember studying over Christmas break my senior year and doing a few back of the envelope calculations and coming to the conclusion that even if I did nothing but go to school, study, eat, and sleep 6 hours a night I would not have enough time to cover all the material I had to cover before the examinations 6 months away.

Essentially, the only social life I had in High School was during my CAS requirements with other people doing that work. That was my break.

Other than that it was Eat Sleep Study Repeat for two years.

Fun times.

I initially did Math, Physics and Chemistry as my higher levels, but soured on the Math after a while, as it was geared towards Math Major/Math Research. I remember doing Mathematical Proof by Induction in Higher Level Math, and thinking it was a total waste of time, and switched to Subsidiary level math, where I only had to worry about Differential, and Integral calculus and differential equations.

Because of this I switched History, one of my previous subsidiary levels to a Higher Level, and liked it, and that was the subject I did my Extended Essay, a 50 page dissertation in. (Mine was on the blitzkrieg tactics of Germany during the second world war, in order to support it I read several original source texts in German by Generals Heinz Guderian and Erwin Rommel.)

So, how it works is, your grade is on a 45 point scale. 7 points each in your six higher and subsidiary level subjects (100% of which was determined by your exam results, the two weeks at the end of your final year) and then I can't remember how the final three were determined. It was like 1 for theory of knowledge, 2 for the extended essay, and I think the CAS was just a check needed to get the diploma. I could be wrong, it's been too long.

My final grade was a 42 out of 45, which was considered pretty damn good. I probably could have gotten a full ride at MIT had I known, but this being Europe, and me seeking to go to college in the U.S. I had zero support from any guidance counselors or anything like that. I had to figure out the application and financial assistance process myself, halfway around the world in another country, with nothing but browsing the web to help me figure out how to do it. My parents weren't helpful either, as I kept asking them for tax returns and documents to support my financial aid application, and they only had Swedish documents that didn't apply.

In the end, out of desperation, when I had failed to meet many important deadlines, and had gotten into a few schools (but none I really liked, and none with the scholarships I had hoped for, due to my missing aid packages) I went to Umass Amherst WAY (months) after their application deadline, and I was lucky enough to have them sufficiently impressed that they made an exception and immediately dumped me into the Umass Commonwealth College Honors program. It was cake compared to what I was used to from IB. Still had to pay tuition fees, room and board though, which sucked.

While I was really disappointed at first to have gone through the ordeal that was IB only to go to a state school, I'm really glad it happened that way. Honestly, in High School I was stuck up, snobby about my academic achievement, and didn't have many friends (part of which may have been due to the work load, but still)

The fact that college was so easy after that (heck, I exempted completely out of any biology, physics and chemistry classes), allowed me to relax a little, and get socialized. Without it I would likely still be a lifeless geek today. State school made me more human.

In retrospect, I don't think I'd recommend anyone put their kid through IB. It is high stress, burnout prone, and doesn't teach a healthy relationship with lifelong learning. Hard-ass programs like these belong back in the 19th century. They are not compatible at all with current teaching on pedagogics and learning. Your entire identity becomes tied to academic excellence and there really isn't anything else. There simply isn't time. I see American movies like Sixteen Candles and stuff like that and I can't identify with them at all. The social dynamic, having free time, having activities other than studying, sports, drama club, AV club, parties, you name it. That was not high school for me.

In two years I took one weekend off from studying from when I got up in the morning to when I went to bed. I needed it. I was going to burn out if I didn't. I borrowed my younger brothers Half Life disc and played through the game from start to finish that weekend. It was glorious, but then it was back to the grind.

Anyway, wow, that was a long aside.

I guess I had to get some trauma off my chest.

TLDR Version. The IB Diploma Program took a huge chunk of my adolescence from me, nearly crushed my spirits, and almost burned me out as a teenager. But on the plus side, I did learn a lot and the whole point of this rant was to illustrate that I had to do a lot of math.
 
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Axman

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You're not my teacher and I'm not going to read that but I like your memes.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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You're not my teacher and I'm not going to read that but I like your memes.

Sorry, I guess I just needed to vent about my rather extreme high school experience. Must have some unresolved issues :p
 
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t1337duder

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I would just write notes in pencil on the sleeve of the calculator. Programming anything was a little too fancy for me (yet I chose to pursue programming).
 
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Axman

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I would just write notes in pencil on the sleeve of the calculator. Programming anything was a little too fancy for me (yet I chose to pursue programming).

You ever put notes on your pencils? Super-easy.
 

CptCabbit

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The ironic thing for me was i never had any programs but i always saved notes and formulae in text as programs. Now granted i cant think of a single time a teacher actually checked my calculator but if they did the programs never ran but if you went to edit it they were always there. Most of my teachers that actually cared just made tests that didnt require a calculator thereby not allowing them. Just expected you do be able to do basic math either in your head or on the paper.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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They're the same issues. IB was garbage.

It wasn't completely without its merits. I don't generally like pride, but having gotten through it, and with fairly decent results, I do have something to be proud of. I demonstrated my abilities to delay gratification and really dedicate myself to something and excel at it.

1664943787882.png


Having completed the program also gave me a level of confidence I probably wouldn't otherwise have had. Having gotten through that nightmare I still kind of feel like I know that I can probably get through any intellectual or academic challenge if I put my mind to it, so there is no reason to give it. Just get it done.

That, and while I thought it was silly at the time, the Theory of Knowledge class really added lifelong value in giving you a way to think about knowledge, how the human brain processes knowledge, and such things, which is really something that should be taught everywhere.

All of that said, was it worth giving up two years of my life forgoing on friends, relationships, social activities to focus on nothing but academics, anguish, feelings of inadequacy, sleep deprivation, etc? Two years in my mid to late teens, which many consider some of the best years of their lives? Probably not.

Maybe if I'd been better at turning it into an education at an elite college afterwards, and were sitting here with a Nobel prize in some science or technology looking back I would think differently, but if I had the chance to do it all over again making my own choices, I probably wouldn't do IB. It just wasn't worth it.

I'm glad I got a chance after IB to cut loose and be young in state school, because if I hadn't I would probably have been permanently messed up.
 
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Zarathustra[H]

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I would just write notes in pencil on the sleeve of the calculator. Programming anything was a little too fancy for me (yet I chose to pursue programming).

I never felt the need to do that, because in my classes they always allowed "cheat sheets" during tests.

You got one page, front and back. It had to be hand written in your own hand (not copied from anyone else).

The thinking was thhat they were not teaching memorization. They wanted us to be confident in using the knowledge, not memorizing the formulas.
 

Axman

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I'm glad I got a chance after IB to cut loose and be young in state school, because if I hadn't I would probably have been permanently messed up.

You have my kudos, sir. I caught my math teacher and English teacher having sex at the McDonald's, and shit got real weird for me afterwards, and I bailed.

Third-party to a bastard child? Well, no, I guess I was fourth-party.

IB in the '90s was weird AF.
 

Bankie

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I don't recall ever seeing Casio graphing calculators. I remember plenty of the cheap solar power early 80's 4 function Casio caculators, but never anything more advanced than that.
I had a Casio graphing calculator in high school. The thing was a beast and used a rudimentary version of Pascal for programming. I'd program the equations on the Casio so that it would ask me for the variables, pause at each step so that I had the numbers to "show my work", and then complete the solution. While I can understand someone thinking it's "cheating", I had as good as or better understanding of the material than my peers because I had to break the equations down, think about what's actually happening, and then re-create them to work in a new environment.
 

Mr Evil

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My TI calculator died a long time ago from leaky batteries, but I still use a TI emulator instead of Windows Calc. While there are native apps that are better for graphing, solving etc, I still like the TI because the interface is comfortingly familiar.

"Vintage", Really?
Remember how when you were growing up, the 60's were a long time ago? That's where the 90's are now.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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My TI calculator died a long time ago from leaky batteries, but I still use a TI emulator instead of Windows Calc. While there are native apps that are better for graphing, solving etc, I still like the TI because the interface is comfortingly familiar.


Remember how when you were growing up, the 60's were a long time ago? That's where the 90's are now.

Depends on what time you consider "growing up". Are we talking childhood or teen years? :p

Either way, I wouldn't have considered 60's stuff to be "vintage".

A Model T is a "vintage" car. :p
 

kirbyrj

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If I remember right, this is the one I had in high school so yes, Casio did have a decent business back in the day. I think I eventually opted to buy a Ti-85 to be like everyone else though. Easier to share information when everyone has the same thing.
fx7700gh.jpg
 
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IndyColtsFan

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TI calcs? Back when I was in engineering school, we used HP scientific calcs! {insert old man waving fist at clouds GIF}. HP was pretty much a standard - first the 28s and then the 48G line. I don’t think I remember seeing any TI calcs.

Casio graphing calcs were newish back then and this one arrogant jerk in my class got one and was always smack talking anyone who bought an HP calc. I’ll never forget coming out of an exam one day and he asked about one of the exam questions and gave his answer. I said “That’s not correct, the answer is X.” He asked how I got that answer. I explained the process and the told him my calculator had it built in and confirmed I was right. His face turned red and said “Well my calculator didn’t have that function.” I looked at him, smiled, and said “That’s why I have an HP” and walked off.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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TI calcs? Back when I was in engineering school, we used HP scientific calcs! {insert old man waving fist at clouds GIF}. HP was pretty much a standard - first the 28s and then the 48G line. I don’t think I remember seeing any TI calcs.

Casio graphing calcs were newish back then and this one arrogant jerk in my class got one and was always smack talking anyone who bought an HP calc. I’ll never forget coming out of an exam one day and he asked about one of the exam questions and gave his answer. I said “That’s not correct, the answer is X.” He asked how I got that answer. I explained the process and the told him my calculator had it built in and confirmed I was right. His face turned red and said “Well my calculator didn’t have that function.” I looked at him, smiled, and said “That’s why I have an HP” and walked off.

The HP 48G's must be what I sort of remembered as the competitor to TI calcs when I was in high school.

They are of a similar early 90's vintage as the TI-85 I had back then.
 

sfsuphysics

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My stepson just started 9th grade (which apparently is highschool? I'm so confused. When I was in highschool - granted in a different country - high school was 10th through 12th grade) his algebra teacher requested that they bring calculators to school. To my surprise she suggested a TI-83.

My brain was like: "Wait a minute. That's what non-science kids used in the mid to late 90's".
I think that's the thing, they're for "non-science" type of applications, think engineering *LAUGH*, but we had the TI-82 (I think) required for calculus by we barely used it the first semester, I think at first to show us how derivatives or integrals work for a data set, but then we did them by hand when doing integrals and derivatives of equations, and from then on only really used them when we put numbers to equation but we really didn't need the ti-82 for that. Don't get me wrong it was quite nice to see the entire equation on screen before hitting = (er scratch that "enter") but from a science background, the Ti-8x calculators were a nice convenience but in no way helped you learn anything.
 
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Fond memories of the 90's and my TI-83... which i found a few years ago, but sadly left the batteries in and they leaked and that was all she wrote. :(
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I think that's the thing, they're for "non-science" type of applications, think engineering *LAUGH*, but we had the TI-82 (I think) required for calculus by we barely used it the first semester, I think at first to show us how derivatives or integrals work for a data set, but then we did them by hand when doing integrals and derivatives of equations, and from then on only really used them when we put numbers to equation but we really didn't need the ti-82 for that. Don't get me wrong it was quite nice to see the entire equation on screen before hitting = (er scratch that "enter") but from a science background, the Ti-8x calculators were a nice convenience but in no way helped you learn anything.

My recollection was that TI-82 and later TI-83 were the calculators for those less focused on math and science, whereas TI-85 and later TI-86 were recommended for those more focused on math & science.

Once my TI-85 I used in high school was stolen my first year in college I took it as an opportunity for an upgrade, and wound up with a TI-89, which I still have to this day (but granted haven't used in years)
 

Zarathustra[H]

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That article links to one about the "Vintage Sports-Car Club", for which one of the references from 1961 says that the club was for cars from up to 1931 - i.e. they counted 30 year old cars as "vintage". The TI-85 is now... 30 years old.

Stop it :p
 

jfreund

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"Vintage", Really?

It wasn't made at the turn of the century for crying out loud!

Yes, I had to necro this thread to share this bullshit.
It was made about a decade before the turn of the century :D.

I'm in healthcare - did the minimum math necessary. I'm good at useful math, and have no interest in factoring polynomials or differential equations.

That TI-83 gave me flashbacks. Not good ones.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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It was made about a decade before the turn of the century :D.

I'm in healthcare - did the minimum math necessary. I'm good at useful math, and have no interest in factoring polynomials or differential equations.

That TI-83 gave me flashbacks. Not good ones.

Differential equations can be very useful for certain dynamic rate of change problems, but the most common applications have been derived down to static formulas that are used (usually with approximations to make them.match the special case) instead, and för kost purposes that's good enough.

Things like calculating emptying a large tank though a drain, where the water pressure changes with the water level is a good example where differential equations can be very useful. As is rocket science, where you are balancing the boost of a rocket against it's ever changing weight as it consumers fuel.

Most people will never use it though. Even engineers.

Most engineering subdisciplines simply never need those kinds of dynamic scenarios, and for most of those that do, there's a software package for that :p
 

sfsuphysics

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My recollection was that TI-82 and later TI-83 were the calculators for those less focused on math and science, whereas TI-85 and later TI-86 were recommended for those more focused on math & science.

Once my TI-85 I used in high school was stolen my first year in college I took it as an opportunity for an upgrade, and wound up with a TI-89, which I still have to this day (but granted haven't used in years)
I dunno, I guess everyone is different. Or maybe some sciences are different. I never felt the "need" for a calculator except when numbers had to be punched in which was often the last step after algebraically solving for it and then really any calculator would do. But definitely didn't need it for science stuff, if there was enough data to plot or something like that a laptop or other computer would be better suited. Maybe math is a bit different though, I dunno, I did calculus, linear algebra, PDEs, ODEs, but that's the extent of it except for stuff that may have a specific use in physics.
 

vegeta535

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Do they still use To calculators in school? Around Baltimore county every kid gets a crappy Chromebook that is pretty locked down. I don't see why there couldn't be a app on those.
 

madpistol

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Graphing calculators were so high tech back in their day. Now, a simple $100 phone is a million times more powerful.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I dunno, I guess everyone is different. Or maybe some sciences are different. I never felt the "need" for a calculator except when numbers had to be punched in which was often the last step after algebraically solving for it and then really any calculator would do. But definitely didn't need it for science stuff, if there was enough data to plot or something like that a laptop or other computer would be better suited. Maybe math is a bit different though, I dunno, I did calculus, linear algebra, PDEs, ODEs, but that's the extent of it except for stuff that may have a specific use in physics.

Totally agree with this. I would always reduce it as far as possible by hand and then use the calculator as the last step.

What I did like about the TI Graphic calculators was that I could go back to the history and check my work, look for typos etc, and if I messed up, just copy and paste it and do it again.

I did occasionally use the symbolic algebraic capabilities of the TI-89 to re-order some things algebraicly, when I tried a few times and none of my standard approaches were simplifying out for me right.

Never in math class through. That would be cheating. Only in physics as memory serves.

I also loved using the built in unit conversions in the TI-85 and TI-89. I presume the 86 and maybe the 83 had those as well.

my program being international had a wide variety of problems in both SI and imperial units. Before finding the built in unit conversions I used to groan whenever a non-SI problem came up, and I had to start converting arbitrary things like British Thermal Units, whatever the hell that shit is, into real SI units.

People who are resistant to converting to metric or SI have never had to do complex engineering or scientific calculations. Either that or they are masochists.
 

pgaster

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You younguns and your TI calculators....

I may have had a basic calculator in high school and I took pre-calc which was the hardest I could take at my high school.
Later in college....mechanical engineering classes...our professor said to get an HP calculator since their better scientific calculators would do matrix math and it would be important, unless of course you wanted to do that crap by hand.
I got the now famous HP 42S. Crappy ones sell for $150 to $200 on ebay now. They are still in high demand. https://www.hpmuseum.org/hp42s.htm
The HP 42S is not really a graphing calculator. I used that the entire time in college to get my mechanical engineering degree.
Swiss Micros made a clone running Free42 software. It's called the DM42 https://www.swissmicros.com/product/dm42
They also make clones of other HP calculators like the HP 15C and the HP 41
I was kind of poor, some others in my classes had the more expensive HP 48 series like the HP 48G or the HP 48GX which had card slots for cards with extra programs on them.
Most have no clue about HP calculators but they used to be the best. NASA used HP calculators: https://www.educalc.net/page/1660081/ https://blogs.brown.edu/ladd/2015/11/30/flight-critical-calculator/
Also these great HP calculators had RPN...reverse polish notation. No, not a racial slur. They do not have an equals key. You had a 4 level stack. If you want to find the answer to 10 dividied by 2 you type in 10, then enter, then 2, and finally divide. RPN could also be called postfix if I remember correctly. It may seem pointless, but if you have to get a numerical answer by plugging in a number or numbers in a messy equation with parenthesis it will save you keystrokes. You just start in the middle and work your way out. If you know the order of operations for math pretty well it is faster and plus you will most likely make less mistakes.
Sadly HP has gone downhill and has dropped off the map in terms of calculators. They never really pushed to get into schools which was probably their downfall.
 

HockeyJon

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These seem to be rather popular in the US. We never used these here in Canada, just a regular scientific calculator. I can only recall using a graphing calculator once, I think in Grade 10 for one class. I don't recall the purpose, but I never saw one again.
 

pendragon1

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These seem to be rather popular in the US. We never used these here in Canada, just a regular scientific calculator. I can only recall using a graphing calculator once, I think in Grade 10 for one class. I don't recall the purpose, but I never saw one again.
maybe youre too young/old or in the wrong spot? we had to have them here in 'berta in the 90s(grad 97) but we were given the choice of the TIs or casios.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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These seem to be rather popular in the US. We never used these here in Canada, just a regular scientific calculator. I can only recall using a graphing calculator once, I think in Grade 10 for one class. I don't recall the purpose, but I never saw one again.

Just because I am curious (and not to out you on the age front) but what years were you in high school?
 

Jagger100

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Sorry, I guess I just needed to vent about my rather extreme high school experience. Must have some unresolved issues :p
Saying you have unresolved issues with High School probably puts you on a half dozen watch lists.
 
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