Steam On Linux Usage Climbs Higher Thanks To The Steam Deck

kac77

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This can be the case, but in distribvutions that have properly implemented DKMS, it shouldn't.

(and there is no reason for any distribution to not have done this by now)

DKMS "just works" in the Debian tree of distributions.

The drivers are less featured than under Windows, and perform slower, but they do indeed "just work" as modules are automatically and successfully built every time the kernel changes.

It might break with some weirdo kernel from outside the official distribution repository, but in general it is a bad idea yo use any software from outside the official repos.
Debian based distro is usually better but not always. As can be seen here:

It's not a horrible experience mind you. But it's leagues behind when the driver is bundled with the distro. I found the performance of the Nvidia drivers under Linux actually to be quite close to their Windows counterparts. Usually within a couple of percentages.

Back to the issue at hand, so the drivers can't be bundled so they are normally acquired by a 3rd party repo. This repo basically pulls down an Nvidia driver release and makes the dkms / akmod packages for the distro. This is usually OK. However sometimes Nvidia drops headers from the release meaning older kernels can stop working and sometimes the kernel devs drop headers from the distro which causes the same problem. Now you can set it so that grub holds on to kernels longer which is what I did. But it's a PITA to keep having to load an older kernel until the packages sync up. It's just annoying.

This problem is capture here as well.
My complaint with Nvidia on Linux is more pragmatic. For example, Nvidia's proprietary drivers only like certain kernels, but I like to install Liquorix or Xanmod for better performance. Been using Liquorix because the input lag is noticeably better. I know there's a way to modify the drivers to work with certain kernels but it's a lot of work for something that should just work. The other problem is that a lot of fixes to games through Proton usually don't effect Nvidia immediately since Nvidia has to implement it into their drivers, and Nvidia is slower at this than MESA. Eventually Nvidia does get the fix, but I like to play my games now.

When the driver comes with the distro none of this happens. It's seamless and smooth. It's how things should be and its easier than Windows.
 

UnknownSouljer

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Isn't this pretty much what they did with Steam Deck though? They have sold a million units and still it's on back order. This wasn't the case with Steam PCs.
Yes, precisely.

The rest of my points are for those that would say: hey see Linux can be a gaming platform. The reality is it can't, outside of a highly curated ecosystem with tightly controlled hardware configurations. Otherwise it remains in the realm of power users only.
Also if they weren't on an open system they wouldn't have been able to make so many commits to AMD's open source driver / Proton.
AMD doesn't care if the system their designing end user software is open or closed. Ultimately where they make money is through selling hardware. AMD was QUITE happy to be the graphics cards vendor for Apple after nVidia acted like nVidia. And similarly AMD is more than happy to provide all of the hardware for 2 out of 3 consoles which are also closed.
All of the software is there merely to support selling their hardware. If AMD could somehow never need to produce software, drivers, etc, it would. But it turns out software is necessary in order to move product. Software integration is arguably more important to selling hardware than the hardware itself.

If Steam Decks sell, they make money. That's the beginning and end of it for them. They have a financial interest in making Steam Deck successful.
Driver Management especially in terms of graphics is light years ahead of where it is on Windows when it comes to management. All of it is automatic. Literally from point of install the graphics driver is already there.
Ask any regular home user to install Arch and see how they do. Or ask them to install SteamOS on their current machine with whatever hardware they have. It won't go well.
Now the one place where Windows has the advantage is in terms of features. The most advanced features do show up on Windows first, which isn't surprising. It has the larger user base so that just is what it is going to be.
Bleeding edge doesn't matter much. Most people are still on 1080p. Most are still using a graphics card with power below a 1080 (not even Ti). User experience is what will drive this. In fact the Steam Deck can't play most games at 1080p fluidly. And certainly NOT with all graphics settings turned to "ultra". The Steam Deck is actually more proof that the bleeding edge isn't necessary to sell hardware. The experience is.
But the Steam Deck proves that no only can people game on Linux, but like it as well.
Yes. On a tightly controlled system where the user has to do zero configuration, zero driver installation, on a mostly closed system that actively discourages popping the hood (though it's possible). Which is precisely my point.

If Valve makes a desktop variant, it absolutely will look more like a Steam Deck and significantly less like SteamPC.
 
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Zarathustra[H]

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Debian based distro is usually better but not always. As can be seen here:

It's not a horrible experience mind you. But it's leagues behind when the driver is bundled with the distro. I found the performance of the Nvidia drivers under Linux actually to be quite close to their Windows counterparts. Usually within a couple of percentages.


In using Ubuntu from ~2008 to 2011, and Mint from 2011 to present, across multiple machines simultaneously, I've never once had DKMS with Nvidia drivers fail, but I guess anything is possible.

The only time I had an Nvidia driver fail to console was when I made a stupid mistake and installed an older driver not compatible with my GPU.

Still, fairly simple to solve from the command line, using apt.

And the Driver is still sortof bundled with the distro. You just click on the driver manager app, and it gives you a choice of drivers to install with a single click. There is no going hunting for drivers elsewhere.
 

Lakados

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I agree that the issues are not always because of Nvidia... its just that no matter what you still have to jump through some hopes to hook your Nvidia stuff into the kernel while fixing just about anything. Even doing simple kernel updates for most distros is annoying with Nvidia hardware. (I say most cause yes a handful of distro push kernels with Nvidia prebaked). For rolling distros... having to constantly register Nvidias DKMS modules is just a PITA. Its notable when you use a AMD GPU system instead and for the most part just ignore such things, and you can just install ANY distro ever made and have your GPU up and running without doing anything special.

I do agree though that Linux gaming with Nvidia works very well... nothing wrong with the Nvidia driver, its just a lot more work with many distros. If your a fan of something like Suse tumbleweed... using Nvidia is going to be super annoying.
Pretty much all my Linux / Nvidia hardware are packaged deals, so it's not a case of "I like this particular Linux distro and want to use it with my Nvidia card", it is more "I have this job I need to do, I need this Nvidia hardware to do it, what OS's support these tool sets". In my case, it almost always ends up being REHL for stand-alone stuff or VMWare for virtualized stuff, because it just works and I don't have to worry about those things, just pop over to the Nvidia Enterprise portal, select what I need, and off I go.
 

Lakados

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I've been thinking of buying a 1440p 120Hz+ monitor for the higher refresh rate upgrade, but I do not care for resolutions.
I picked up a Dell G3223D, when they were on offer a while back and I can say I have not been disappointed by it yet.
 

kac77

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Yes, precisely.

The rest of my points are for those that would say: hey see Linux can be a gaming platform. The reality is it can't, outside of a highly curated ecosystem with tightly controlled hardware configurations. Otherwise it remains in the realm of power users only.
This just isn't so. Installing Steam on Fedora or any Ubuntu distro is a cake walk. It's easier than in Windows. You can search for Steam in the Start menus of either and Steam will pop right up for install. It's brain dead easy. Installing Fedora or Ubuntu is just as easy as Windows if not easier, especially when there's new chipsets (I went through this just recently).
AMD doesn't care if the system their designing end user software is open or closed.
Intel and AMD lead the pack with Open Source initiatives. Trust and believe they care.

Ultimately where they make money is through selling hardware. AMD was QUITE happy to be the graphics cards vendor for Apple after nVidia acted like nVidia. And similarly AMD is more than happy to provide all of the hardware for 2 out of 3 consoles which are also closed.
All of the software is there merely to support selling their hardware. If AMD could somehow never need to produce software, drivers, etc, it would. But it turns out software is necessary in order to move product. Software integration is arguably more important to selling hardware than the hardware itself.
There's no such thing as proprietary hardware working without the designer/manufacturer giving consent and assistance. Just ask team Nouveau.
Bleeding edge doesn't matter much. Most people are still on 1080p. Most are still using a graphics card with power below a 1080 (not even Ti). User experience is what will drive this. In fact the Steam Deck can't play most games at 1080p fluidly. And certainly NOT with all graphics settings turned to "ultra".
What handheld device can?
The Steam Deck is actually more proof that the bleeding edge isn't necessary to sell hardware. The experience is.

Yes. On a tightly controlled system where the user has to do zero configuration, zero driver installation, on a mostly closed system that actively discourages popping the hood (though it's possible). Which is precisely my point.

If Valve makes a desktop variant, it absolutely will look more like a Steam Deck and significantly less like SteamPC.
Popping the hood on Steam Deck isn't prevented. Steam PC came before all of the driver and wine work.
 

Mazzspeed

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My complaint with Nvidia on Linux is more pragmatic. For example, Nvidia's proprietary drivers only like certain kernels, but I like to install Liquorix or Xanmod for better performance. Been using Liquorix because the input lag is noticeably better. I know there's a way to modify the drivers to work with certain kernels but it's a lot of work for something that should just work. The other problem is that a lot of fixes to games through Proton usually don't effect Nvidia immediately since Nvidia has to implement it into their drivers, and Nvidia is slower at this than MESA. Eventually Nvidia does get the fix, but I like to play my games now.
Nvidia drivers will work with any kernel but bleeding edge kernels, which provide little benefit at the possible sacrifice for stability anyway. As someone that runs LTS releases, the fact I can just add the Ubuntu Nvidia PPA and update graphics drivers along with system updates is a win for me.

Maybe it was fixed? It's an on again off again problem. I'm currently using Battle.net 13859. FYI, Battle.net only likes Wine-Staging as I've tried a number of Proton builds with it.

Honestly, I've never had a problem with Battle.net. It's actually rock stable, which is more than I can say for Origin - However the issues I experience with Origin are also experienced by a subset of Windows users. Everytime I close Origin, I need to reboot before I can open it again or else it crashes.

Not the end of the world, but I'd like it if EA would fix their shit. Apparently Origin is being replaced by yet another launcher anyway. :mad:

EDIT: I'm using the Lutris build of Wine, version 7.2 and it works perfectly.
 
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Lakados

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Yes. On a tightly controlled system where the user has to do zero configuration, zero driver installation, on a mostly closed system that actively discourages popping the hood (though it's possible). Which is precisely my point.

If Valve makes a desktop variant, it absolutely will look more like a Steam Deck and significantly less like SteamPC.
Steamdeck is a Linux-powered console, it's what you would get if you tried to take an Xbox and turn it portable.
IF valve were to make a "Steam PC" I would expect them to just be selling a soldered-down AMD 7700G (should it ever be a thing), using an OEM board probably sourced from Newhonte, and an Asetek cooler, with some memory packages from Hynix for Ram and Storage.
 

Mazzspeed

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So if you want to install Nvidia's drivers in Linux you have to go get them and build the packages using something like akmod.
You always install Nvidia drivers using your distro's package manager, using the supplied shell script or attempting to build the drivers manually will usually result in important dependacies being overwritten and a disaster of an experience.
 

DPI

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IMO if Valve sticks with the deck, in a year or two Linux may start getting some direct developer support.
Right. The solution to the chicken/egg problem is enough financial incentive. And a new market of Steamdeck game key sales creates a gravitational field that becomes an opportunity cost for publishers to ignore. If friction is reduced enough that developers could convert a Steamdeck game to wider Linux availability without a ton of additional time, by things like abstracting the hardware layer enough that talking to hardware directly and dicking with optimization for a million hardware combinations isn't a requirement anymore, then you ChadD literally and personally could be onto something. My god.
 
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Nvidia drivers will work with any kernel but bleeding edge kernels, which provide little benefit at the possible sacrifice for stability anyway. As someone that runs LTS releases, the fact I can just add the Ubuntu Nvidia PPA and update along with system updates is a win for me.



Honestly, I've never had a problem with Battle.net. It's actually rock stable, which is more than I can say for Origin - However the issues I experience with Origin are also experienced by Windows users. Everytime I close Origin, I need to reboot before I can open it again or else it crashes.

Not the end of the world, but I'd like it if EA would fix their shit. Apparently Origin is being replaced by yet another launcher anyway. :mad:
EA doesn't care. Origin/EA app will always be a second rate (at best) launcher. The worst part is the forced migration to the EA app which I'm not sure is any better.
 

Mazzspeed

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EA doesn't care. Origin/EA app will always be a second rate (at best) launcher. The worst part is the forced migration to the EA app which I'm not sure is any better.
Agreed. The only game I play under Origin is BF4 anyway, IMO the best of the BF series games with the exception of BFBC2.
 

Lakados

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EA doesn't care. Origin/EA app will always be a second rate (at best) launcher. The worst part is the forced migration to the EA app which I'm not sure is any better.
It's faster... and has more features I don't use so really it's the same thing but more colorful.
As far as a launcher and storefront go, it isn't much different but the EA launcher does tie in with the XBox game pass so there is at least that.
 

Mazzspeed

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It's faster... and has more features I don't use so really it's the same thing but more colorful.
As far as a launcher and storefront go, it isn't much different but the EA launcher does tie in with the XBox game pass so there is at least that.
Do you use it under Linux or Windows? Curious to know how the new launcher runs under Linux.
 

Lakados

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Right. The solution to the chicken/egg problem is enough financial incentive. And a new market of Steamdeck game key sales creates a gravitational field that becomes an opportunity cost for publishers to ignore. If friction is reduced sufficiently that developers could convert a Steamdeck game to wider Linux availability without a ton of additional time, by things like abstracting the hardware layer enough that talking to hardware directly and dicking with optimization isn't a requirement, then you ChadD literally and personally could finally, finally be onto something.
They technically don't need to program anything for the Steamdeck specifically. Any game designed to work with a controller, with textures focused for 1080p resolution, with the expected GPU of an RX570 and an older quad-core CPU would do fine on a steam deck.
Depending on your dev environment it wouldn't be hard to get that on Steamdeck, PC, and Console, hell play your cards right and you could get it in as a digital Switch release.
 

Lakados

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Do you use it under Linux or Windows? Curious to know how the new launcher runs under Linux.
I use it on Windows, I am just too tired to make gaming on Linux work but I happily support those who do!
From what I know on the subject though if you go to the site and try downloading it from a Linux PC it's going to give you a hard time, so download the launcher/installer from a windows PC, then set it up in Linux like you would a game through Proton.
There are then a number of forums and sites out there that tell you how you can write scripts or launchers for the games so you don't need to bother with the EA app after your games are installed.
So best I can tell it works well enough, better than Origin at least.
 

Lakados

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coming soon: Windows Subsystem for Steam GameOS. They're filing the trademark now.

Rack 'em!
You're 2 years late to the party.
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Microsoft-DX12-WSL2
Microsoft has been working primarily with Nvidia to bring parts of the DX12 API to Linux for a while now.
Completely closed source of course and primarily to support better GPU functionality for Windows installs on Linux hosts, or Linux installs on Windows hosts, but Microsoft has been slowly adding more and more DX12 functionality to Linux for a few years now and they look like they are continuing to do so.
 

UnknownSouljer

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This just isn't so. Installing Steam on Fedora or any Ubuntu distro is a cake walk. It's easier than in Windows. You can search for Steam in the Start menus of either and Steam will pop right up for install. It's brain dead easy. Installing Fedora or Ubuntu is just as easy as Windows if not easier, especially when there's new chipsets (I went through this just recently).
This already disagrees with the experiences of hardcore Linux users in this thread. From issues with nVidia hardware, updates breaking things, and issues with Proton. Even problems with WoW? Whatever, the list goes on and on. I don't even have to say my issues with it, there are plenty of examples in this thread. Heck, you even posted an LTT video talking about Linus' issues with using Nix as a daily driver. That epitomizes the point.
For all of Windows' ills, and it's not to say Windows has smooth sailing, it doesn't, it's still a lot easier than any flavor of Linux. It's not just installation. It's everything. If a terminal window has to be opened for any reason at all, that's a check out of at least 99.9% of the normal user base.
Intel and AMD lead the pack with Open Source initiatives. Trust and believe they care.
Yeah, I don't. Not what so ever. It has way more to do with trying to have better enterprise adoption for their hardware than anything else.
There's no such thing as proprietary hardware working without the designer/manufacturer giving consent and assistance. Just ask team Nouveau.
I didn't say that there was. I'm not sure where you get the idea that that is a position of mine. And if you didn't, then, we agree?
What handheld device can?
That's missing the point. The point is "ultra hardware" doesn't matter. Only support does. I feel like you're not reading my sentences fully after this break and the previous one. (And the following one).
Popping the hood on Steam Deck isn't prevented.
Again, I literally said that. So, we agree, or do you just like quoting people and repeating statements? If so, I don't really get it.
Steam PC came before all of the driver and wine work.
That may be, but it ain't coming back. And it certainly isn't fixed. Having open configurations would give too many problems. For the second time: try having a normal user install SteamOS on their hardware. They will not have a good time.
 
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UnknownSouljer

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Steamdeck is a Linux-powered console, it's what you would get if you tried to take an Xbox and turn it portable.
IF valve were to make a "Steam PC" I would expect them to just be selling a soldered-down AMD 7700G (should it ever be a thing), using an OEM board probably sourced from Newhonte, and an Asetek cooler, with some memory packages from Hynix for Ram and Storage.
I have no idea what hardware they would put in. It would be great if they actually put in discrete graphics, but I would get it if they didn't. [EDIT: Maybe some specialized and modified 5700xt that has some RT features added like what is in the PS5]. And to be clear, whatever those discrete graphics would be, I would expect them to not be removable and soldered onto the board.
 
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DukenukemX

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Nvidia drivers will work with any kernel but bleeding edge kernels, which provide little benefit at the possible sacrifice for stability anyway. As someone that runs LTS releases, the fact I can just add the Ubuntu Nvidia PPA and update graphics drivers along with system updates is a win for me.
Bleeding edge kernels have their benefits but from experience they can be more unstable. For example my Radeon HD 7850 will not support AMDGPU with older kernels, so you need a fairly new kernel, and not the one that comes with Ubuntu LTS. The same applies to my Lenovo laptop with a Ryzen 4700U which won't have working GPU drivers unless I update the kernel. Remember that fsync/futex2 that can double the frame rate of games in Wine? That needs a newer kernel as well, and preferably Xanmod which seems to have the most benefit from this.

That's the problem with Linux in that there's plenty of methods to increase performance but it usually requires something akin to regedit and modded drivers if you're willing to deal with an unstable system for greater performance. There's a reason why AMDGPU isn't the default driver for older GCN graphic cards, because it isn't 100% stable. For me having access to Vulkan and better performing OpenGL drivers is worth it.

When the driver comes with the distro none of this happens. It's seamless and smooth. It's how things should be and its easier than Windows.
Not everything that comes with the distro is considered the best. Lately my move to new LTS distros has come with a lot of consequences. For example I run JellyFin and some machines use Kodi to access the media, but with the move to Mint 21 or Ubuntu 22.04, Kodi will crash when you try to watch a video the second time. The problem is the version of python that came with Ubuntu 22.04 and any distro based on it, has a bug. Eventually they did fix the problem, but if you needed Kodi working now you needed to replace Python for a newer version. Another example is Pronterface which is what I use to run my 3D printer. This worked fine with Mint 20 or Ubuntu 20.04, but with 22.04 or any distro based on it the application will not work. The only method I found to get it working is by going to the github and running the script directly, but it's still buggy. It's still a problem to this day, and nobody has a solution to this.

So yea, just because it comes with the distro doesn't make it the most stable and best working. It's getting to the point where I'll probably wait until Ubuntu 24.04.1 is released, instead of upgrading right away as there's just too many broken packages that I depend on that I notice won't work.
 

DogsofJune

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Whispers. " The year of Linux"



Tee hee




I love it actually. Game at 1440 144hz with very few issues. Hoping it comes around some more.
 

Mazzspeed

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Bleeding edge kernels have their benefits but from experience they can be more unstable. For example my Radeon HD 7850 will not support AMDGPU with older kernels, so you need a fairly new kernel, and not the one that comes with Ubuntu LTS. The same applies to my Lenovo laptop with a Ryzen 4700U which won't have working GPU drivers unless I update the kernel. Remember that fsync/futex2 that can double the frame rate of games in Wine? That needs a newer kernel as well, and preferably Xanmod which seems to have the most benefit from this.
Therefore the argument regarding AMD/Mesa open source drivers vs Nvidia proprietary drivers is 100% moot. One works with every kernel but bleeding edge (Nvidia), one works best with bleeding edge kernels that may be more unstable.

I'm in no way interested in either Arch based distro's or bleeding edge kernels, so for my usage case Nvidia is perfect and performance is fantastic. Bear in mind, that under Windows Nvidia drivers have almost always been classed as the better developed drivers than their AMD counterparts, so no OS is immune from this problem - MacOS can't even run the latest Nvidia hardware.
 

Mazzspeed

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I use it on Windows, I am just too tired to make gaming on Linux work but I happily support those who do!
From what I know on the subject though if you go to the site and try downloading it from a Linux PC it's going to give you a hard time, so download the launcher/installer from a windows PC, then set it up in Linux like you would a game through Proton.
There are then a number of forums and sites out there that tell you how you can write scripts or launchers for the games so you don't need to bother with the EA app after your games are installed.
So best I can tell it works well enough, better than Origin at least.
Can't I just change my User agent string under Firefox? Make EA think I'm running a Windows machine and allow the .msi/.exe download..
 

ChadD

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Right. The solution to the chicken/egg problem is enough financial incentive. And a new market of Steamdeck game key sales creates a gravitational field that becomes an opportunity cost for publishers to ignore. If friction is reduced enough that developers could convert a Steamdeck game to wider Linux availability without a ton of additional time, by things like abstracting the hardware layer enough that talking to hardware directly and dicking with optimization for a million hardware combinations isn't a requirement anymore, then you ChadD literally and personally could be onto something. My god.
lol I know it sounds like we (Neck beards) have been saying next year or two years for a decade now. Deck seems to be getting real traction and actually selling though. Who knows perhaps valve is on to something this time. I don't expect developers really have to do much anymore. Valve has Proton and DXVK in a pretty good place. Some direct developer profile support though could probably really help. Or at least get some of the anti cheat running games to do a little work to find a Linux friendly solution. As I understand it most of the battleeyes ect can run under Linux fine, IF the developer makes a few changes. They aren't all doing that right now. They have shipped over a million decks now... I don't know what it will take 2 or 3 million ?
 

DPI

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Deck seems to be getting real traction and actually selling though. Who knows perhaps valve is on to something this time.
I'm guessing the reception has probably taken them more by surprise than anything.

The only mistake now would be to "Valve this up", to squander the built up goodwill, hang back and coast. Don't lay around and coast now Gaben you son of a bitch.

gabe-with-deck-v0-4qfbxuwvgpw91.png
 
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DukenukemX

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Therefore the argument regarding AMD/Mesa open source drivers vs Nvidia proprietary drivers is 100% moot. One works with every kernel but bleeding edge (Nvidia), one works best with bleeding edge kernels that may be more unstable.
They both benefit from bleeding edge kernels but because of Valve's involvement, AMD hardware takes better advantage of this. Another point to be made is Gallium Nine, which only works on AMD and Intel hardware and gives superior performance for DX9 games. I wouldn't use Gallium Nine on modern hardware, but older hardware that might have trouble with DX9 games would benefit switching to Gallium Nine. This doesn't need any special kernel but Nvidia is SOL unless you use open source Nouveau, which you might as well be SOL.
I'm in no way interested in either Arch based distro's or bleeding edge kernels, so for my usage case Nvidia is perfect and performance is fantastic. Bear in mind, that under Windows Nvidia drivers have almost always been classed as the better developed drivers than their AMD counterparts, so no OS is immune from this problem -
Personally I see people with more problems on Nvidia than AMD drivers. I helped someone downgrade their Nvidia drivers because the new ones would run World of Warcraft terribly slow. I can't ever remember doing this with AMD drivers. A common occurrence with Nvidia drivers is that updated ones can break certain games and for some reason limit their utilization of the GPU. I don't know about Nvidia on Linux since I rarely use Nvidia.
MacOS can't even run the latest Nvidia hardware.
Mac OSX can't even run Mac applications.
installing old apps.jpg
 

Lakados

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Can't I just change my User agent string under Firefox? Make EA think I'm running a Windows machine and allow the .msi/.exe download..
Probably, whatever’s easiest. You just need the windows installer.
 

Mazzspeed

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They both benefit from bleeding edge kernels but because of Valve's involvement, AMD hardware takes better advantage of this.
You can (not always) benefit from newer kernels, bleeding edge can sometimes go backwards for a period. Quite often if an implementation in a newer kernel works well, once the bugs are ironed out it merges into the LTS kernels. This was the case with fsync, originally only available in the 5.16 kernel, eventually it was made available in a 5.15 LTS point release kernel.
 
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kac77

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You always install Nvidia drivers using your distro's package manager, using the supplied shell script or attempting to build the drivers manually will usually result in important dependacies being overwritten and a disaster of an experience.
Akmod and dkms are through your package manager. When I say you have to "go get them" I mean you have enable / add the repo.
 

Mazzspeed

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Akmod and dkms are through your package manager. When I say you have to "go get them" I mean you have enable / add the repo.
Sorry, I've never used a Fedora based distro. Surely you just add the repo and forget about it?
 

whateverer

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Agreed Valve managed to land a serve. Now they need to keep delivering and pushing.


right,l and this is where they usually bungle the second set, and ultimately lose the game: this already happened with Index (3.5 years since launch, with no signs if life from VR games or a hardware sequel from valve)!

Because the management inside valve acts like 3-year olds pretty consistently,
as soon as someone holds them accountable for barely selling 2 million units in two years (while wasting money on custom silicon), the rest of the company will turn on the sequel Deck 2, and kill it before is even completed
 

ChadD

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right,l and this is where they usually bungle the second set, and ultimately lose the game: this already happened with Index (3.5 years since launch, with no signs if life from VR games or a hardware sequel from valve)!

Because the management inside valve acts like 3-year olds pretty consistently, as soon as someone holds them accountable for barely selling 2 million units in two years (while wasting money on custom silicon), the rest of the company will turn on the sequel Deck 2, and kill it before is even completed
Its not impossible that is for sure. Valve has issues with focus. As fun as it must be working for a company that lets you follow any whim... and abandon them when your bored. They really could use someone keeping them on task. Still Linux seems to be a pet project for everyone there... so perhaps they stick with the deck for the duration. Time will tell.
 

whateverer

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Its not impossible that is for sure. Valve has issues with focus. As fun as it must be working for a company that lets you follow any whim... and abandon them when your bored. They really could use someone keeping them on task. Still Linux seems to be a pet project for everyone there... so perhaps they stick with the deck for the duration. Time will tell.


Well, rhey already added compatibility for newer hardware (their competitors), so maybe they see the kill-shot ciming already?
 

RanceJustice

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You know, I keep reading that Steam on Linux is getting better, but ever single time I try it, I wind up disappointed, and thinking it was a waste of my time.

From talking to people online who are die hard Linux gaming enthusiasts, I was led to believe that my experience was historical only, and that these days it is really quite good, but man was I ever wrong. I installed it under linux just a few weeks ago and experimented with a few titles, and it was just one failure after another, experimenting hit or miss with various Proton versions, hoping for things to work well, but they never did.

Even native Linux games run poorly compared to their Windows versions, and if you run something through Proton/Wine/DXVK be prepared for constant problems, bugs crashes and poor performance compared to native.

It's really just not worth it.

I remain hopeful that some day gaming under Linux will be at least OK, as I would like nothing more than to get rid of Windows once and for all, but as it stands today it is nowhere near OK. It is more like it is in constant alpha. Buggy, requiring constant trial and error work arounds and if you are lucky enough to get it to work, performance and quality is typically shit compared to Windows.
I think its very, very dependent on your particular combination of PC hardware, Linux distro, gaming software (including Steam, Proton / Wine versions, any other launchers both official or unofficial etc), drivers and the like.

When using the Steam Deck, it is on another level of compatibility so to speak. Many games on Steam have a "Deck rating" built in and if its a 'green checkmark' it is basically perfect parity to Windows gameplay;you can evil filter by "great on deck" from your Library or the Store to ONLY see those which are rated "green/verified". Now there are a good bit of "yellow/tested" titles too, but on each game you can read about exactly why and what workarounds if any are necessary. It may be something as simple as "the text is kinda small on the Deck's screen" or "You'll need to bring up the soft keyboard to input typed content at certain times because the game expects a keyboard" which is basically not an issue at all or it may be more complex like having to force a certain setting or whatnot. There are a relative few titles that are "red" and have a blocker that keeps them from working on Deck, but this is incredibly limited and often gets resolved with updates to the Deck and its underlying software. Lastly there are the "unknown/unrated" titles which may in theory work but haven't been tested with Deck. Overall though, the Deck works very, very well even with Windows titles - it would have been unthinkable years ago. Its worth noting that the Deck is kind of unique as far as this level of compatibility, but Valve is rolling it out not just in stand alone Steam for Linux and their updated SteamOS (the new version based on Arch made for the Deck, not the older Ubuntu standalone) which kind of adapt to certain Linux issues that someone using another distro may have to do manually. For instance, the Deck has a custom compositor (now called Gamescope and released libre - yet another thing developed by Valve for Linux gaming) and desktop environment when in "game mode" as well as a separate "desktop mode" which is (I think) a KDE Plasma desktop environment running on a version of Xorg. I've even used Desktop Mode to install a couple of mods for games and then go back to Game Mode to play them and it has worked out very well (there as one circumstance where after installing a mod - Legend of Heroes Trails in the Sky 's Evolution Mod pack - you needed to put a custom command into the Steam launching parameters, but the same seems to be true on other devices, and the game itself was also an Untested one for the Deck. )

Putting aside the Deck, I've generally found that all these developments - usually by Valve directly or indirectly - make Linux gaming work the vast majority of the time. Even things like EasyAntiCheat are finally Proton friendly (something that, without massive pressure from Valve, would not have happened allowing games that previously worked flawlessly - Apex Legends is a good example - but were unplayable thanks to EAC dumping you out at best or worse flagging you as a possible cheater if using Linux with Proton/WINE to finally be truly playable. Now it isn't like there's no workarounds necessary in any situation but that's also the case in Windows where you need some update, there's a bug etc. Sure, you may run into a situation where the particular game you want its going to have a problem, but recent titles like Gotham Knights and Callisto Protocol (both apparently having massive performance issues on native Windows) prove that to be the case anywhere. Its important to remember that as huge a feat as Proton is, its basically trying to run a program that's not made for its OS or way of doing things, so the fact its parity/flawless as much as it is is noteworthy. Sometimes a new title or patch will mean you'll need an update or workaround until the update (to the game or to Wine/Proton, or whatever else) but Valve has really been putting a lot of work for Deck compatibility when possible and this often benefits Linux in general. As far as performance vs Windows goes, I've not noticed a marked difference but I admit I'm not measuring FPS or anything, but I usually run my games on Linux at the same resolution and settings as I would have on Windows. There's a very occasional "bad port" (amazingly these are sometimes the time when performance using Proton or Wine is better than native, if the dev was very inexperienced or was working with a cumbersome engine for the Linux build ), but usually if there are to be any issues for a game on Linux its some sort of compatibility bug of one type or another, but it runs it seems to run at least as well or occasionally better than on Windows. .

I'm not sure what's behind your particular experience, but I think that in general Linux gaming is really moving along quickly towards not just compatibility, but ease of access when it comes to gaming. Its certainly not perfect and there will always be some issues when dealing with complexities not the least of which is getting Windows games running flawlessly on Linux, but the Steam Deck and Valve's durable campaign for Linux gaming has made great strides forward. I hope it gets to the point that it works for you in particular.
 
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DukenukemX

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I'm not sure what's behind your particular experience, but I think that in general Linux gaming is really moving along quickly towards not just compatibility, but ease of access when it comes to gaming. Its certainly not perfect and there will always be some issues when dealing with complexities not the least of which is getting Windows games running flawlessly on Linux, but the Steam Deck and Valve's durable campaign for Linux gaming has made great strides forward. I hope it gets to the point that it works for you in particular.
There's nothing wrong in pointing out problems, because lets be honest there's problems. Linux gaming is moving forward, and very nicely, but we wouldn't be doing Linux a service by pretending issues don't exist. Windows has issues too, it's just that many people here don't want to admit it and move along as if nothings wrong. Mac users know they have problems and happily ignore them and even call it a feature.

We've all used Windows and we've all ran into issues. I can still remember the hell I ran into playing Fallout 3 on Windows 10 because it's an old game. On Linux not an issue. I use a sound board to play sounds on Discord and setting this up on Windows is a huge pain, and requires 3rd party drivers to even get it barely working. On Linux you start up Soundux and you're done, as it detects Discord and uses it. The reality is that the more advanced your PC is the more likely some features won't work on Linux. I had a hell of a time get an Equalizer on Linux with my Asus Xonar sound card, but after upgrading to pipewire and installing EasyEffects I now have an even better equalizer than I did on Windows. Though to be fair on Windows 10 I used Uni Xonar drivers because nobody has updated them in years, and even still I had to use a particular driver version to avoid the system from crashing because Windows 10. This is not an issue on Linux.

As of now I can't say that Linux is for everyone. It could be with work and a effort but nobody wants to put work and effort into something that should work. Despite Windows applications not made for Linux, people do expect them to work like they do on Windows. The reality is that you either use something like Lutris or start a VM because Wine doesn't support .net 4.0 or higher... still. Steam has made this process so much better than before, but there's already push back from companies like Nintendo who don't want you using Steam as your launcher for their games.

 
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kac77

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In using Ubuntu from ~2008 to 2011, and Mint from 2011 to present, across multiple machines simultaneously, I've never once had DKMS with Nvidia drivers fail, but I guess anything is possible.

The only time I had an Nvidia driver fail to console was when I made a stupid mistake and installed an older driver not compatible with my GPU.

Still, fairly simple to solve from the command line, using apt.

And the Driver is still sortof bundled with the distro. You just click on the driver manager app, and it gives you a choice of drivers to install with a single click. There is no going hunting for drivers elsewhere.
Welp in the video its failing don't know what else to tell you. I've experienced it too. It's one of the most common issues with the drivers being proprietary. There's boards upon boards talking about it. It happens. Typically when upgrading the distro (major point releases) is when the chance of failure is at its highest. The other issue is Wayland development, which is why Nvidia is finally open sourcing it's drivers. It's not doing it for zero benefit.
 
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