Sony has formed the ‘PlayStation PC’ label for its PC games push.

[DukenukemX]

Yes, I do. It's very competitive with higher-end RTX 30 GPUs in ideal conditions.

Which high end RTX 30 GPU's? The best I saw it do was RTX 3060 and that ain't high end. High price but not high end.

The problem with AT's gaming tests, which you overlooked, is that they're using Rosetta 2 code translation — that delivers a huge performance penalty. Now, you can rightly point out that there still aren't many Apple Silicon-native games and that real-world speed won't be so hot in those cases, but we're talking about the GPU's capabilities in this case.

I agree except that when the M1 was released the Apple fans say that Rosetta 2 has no performance penalty. Now that Borderlands 3 runs like crap you're telling me that Rosetta 2 has a big performance impact? Even still, enough to be 24fps? It's a known fact that Apple's GPU's are missing features that is needed for Vulkan and etc. So I imagine that if the feature isn't supported then that has a bigger performance impact than Rosetta 2, because that feature would have to be done through software. Yea it would perform much better if running native code.

Let's see how it works in practice. From what I've seen, an actual SoC with gobs of DRAM on top (let alone an advanced GPU) is more of a long-term prospect; the short term is considerably more modest.

The Apple M1 has an effective bandwidth of 400GB/s, which is rather impressive when you consider that the RTX 3060 is 360GB/s, but that 3060 doesn't have to share bandwidth with a CPU. Again the RTX 3060 is an entry level GPU but the current market makes it seem like it's a high end GPU due to pricing. A RTX 3080 has 760 GB/s just for reference.

You're not going to see a Ryzen 9 with 64GB of on-chip memory and Radeon RX 6800M-class graphics any time soon.

It isn't because AMD isn't able to. I'd have more faith in Intel doing this than AMD, just because AMD seems to be playing the market. AMD wasn't making an APU with RDNA2 graphics until we've see Valve's Deck. The V-Cache still allows for modular ram while still offering good performance and AMD has talked about putting ram right on top of the CPU as well. We've seen this with eDRAM from Intel and as well as AMD using it on Xbox 360 and One. Lets not forget this unholy union with Intel CPU plus AMD graphics with HBM2 memory. The sad thing is that none of this is even remotely new. V-Cache is just eDRAM on steroids.

You're really overstating the case here. Sony is releasing those games on PC well after their initial PlayStation run, and even then only a handful of titles. It's not a mea culpa where it admits it must cater to PC gamers in a big way; it's selling you the leftovers to boost profits.

I know that but we've been down this path before. Microsoft started porting their leftovers to PC and here we are with the newest titles released for both PC and Xbox at the same time. It also helps that the sales of PC titles are bigger than Xbox. Eventually the profits from the sales of PC releases will be too big to delay from Sony. Sony isn't dedicated to the Playstation hardware you buy but the platform. If they sell games on their Playstation PC store and still make more money then that's what they'll do. It's capitalism after all. The people don't matter just the profits. Nobody cares that you bought a PS5 on Ebay for $1k hoping to get exclusives that PC users won't. Sony knows eventually PC users will get emulators so it makes sense to port them now before an emulator is ever released.

And I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure Apple is happy to distance itself from pro-Nazi computing analogies.

I'm sure PC users want to be associated with Apple's slave labor sweat shop practices, safety problems, harsh working conditions, Foxconn suicides, and tax avoidance. Seriously, who's the Nazi here? Hitler would be proud of Apple.

 

[Aireoth]

And I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure Apple is happy to distance itself from pro-Nazi computing analogies.

Wait, what... oh your from Ottawa, that explains that.

Maybe you should look into Apples labour use and related... workplace incidents, you know, after your done signalling.

 

[Captain Newmackwa]

Remember when there used to be year after year of 'PC gaming is dying/dead' talk?

I've been reading/hearing this again from some quarters who claim that the combined effects of the chip shortage, scalping and mining is killing PC gaming.

 

[chameleoneel]

More potential games leaked (I didn't make these lists or any of the "notes":

Title	"EarliestStreetDate"	Notes
Horizon Forbidden West	2022-09-30	My guess is this was before the delay, Sony was targeting 2021-09 and were planing to release on PC one year later.
Returnal	2022-04-30
Ghost of Tsushima	2022-02-08
Sackboy: A Big Adventure	2022-05-01
Ratchet & Clank	2022-10-03	I believe this is 2016 one, not Rift Apart.

Square Enix was also part of the leak-----and FF7R is on the list:

Chrono Cross Remaster	2021-12-01
Final Fantasy IX Remake	2022-04-01
Final Fantasy XVI	2023-03-01	If PS5 exclusivity is 6 months, does this mean the game is targeting September 2022 on PS5?
FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE	2022-06-01	Seems like Sony got an extra year exclusivity with Yuffie DLC.
Kingdom Hearts IV	2023-09-30
Dragon Quest 12: The Flames of Fate	2023-01-01
Final Fantasy Tactics Remaster	2022-02-01
Tactics Ogre Remaster	2022-03-01

 

[Derangel]

More potential games leaked (I didn't make these lists or any of the "notes":

Title	"EarliestStreetDate"	Notes
Horizon Forbidden West	2022-09-30	My guess is this was before the delay, Sony was targeting 2021-09 and were planing to release on PC one year later.
Returnal	2022-04-30
Ghost of Tsushima	2022-02-08
Sackboy: A Big Adventure	2022-05-01
Ratchet & Clank	2022-10-03	I believe this is 2016 one, not Rift Apart.

Square Enix was also part of the leak-----and FF7R is on the list:

Chrono Cross Remaster	2021-12-01
Final Fantasy IX Remake	2022-04-01
Final Fantasy XVI	2023-03-01	If PS5 exclusivity is 6 months, does this mean the game is targeting September 2022 on PS5?
FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE	2022-06-01	Seems like Sony got an extra year exclusivity with Yuffie DLC.
Kingdom Hearts IV	2023-09-30
Dragon Quest 12: The Flames of Fate	2023-01-01
Final Fantasy Tactics Remaster	2022-02-01
Tactics Ogre Remaster	2022-03-01

This leak feels like a load of bullshit, with the occasional "well duh" thing thrown in to make it seem legit. Tsushima and R&C both seem super likely, same with FFVR. PS5 games releasing that soon after release? Highly unlikely.

Chrono Cross remaster? HAAAAA! Not only would it have been announced already if it was releasing in December, but if SE was going to touch Chrono again they'd do more stuff with the much better loved Trigger.

There is no way in hell KH4 will be out by 2023. Nomura is a perfectionist and takes a long time to make anything. IF a new KH game ever happens, its a long way off.

There have been rumblings of SE doing something with FFT and TO, but don't count on either appearing that early. If they happen at all.

FFIX remake? What the ever living fuck are the leakers smoking?

 

[Aurelius]

Wait, what... oh your from Ottawa, that explains that.

Maybe you should look into Apples labour use and related... workplace incidents, you know, after your done signalling.

Maybe you should realize most everything you use is made in similar conditions, and pretending they're not doesn't improve those conditions. It's an industry-wide problem that won't be solved in the near future.

As it stands... you're a grown-ass adult. You're hopefully mature enough to say "I prefer PC gaming" without using Nazi terms. It's really not that hard.

Can we get back to gaming, please? If the list chameleoneel showed is accurate, this is a handful of games... some of them arriving well after their PS4/PS5 launch dates. I'd also note that Rift Apart may not come to the PC for a while due to the requirement for a very fast SSD. In other words, it's not Sony admitting defeat; it's Sony determining that it can boost profits by porting games once they've exhausted most of their sales potential on PlayStation consoles. If these were movies, they'd be the Netflix releases a year after the theatrical debut.

 

[Aireoth]

Maybe you should realize most everything you use is made in similar conditions, and pretending they're not doesn't improve those conditions. It's an industry-wide problem that won't be solved in the near future.

As it stands... you're a grown-ass adult. You're hopefully mature enough to say "I prefer PC gaming" without using Nazi terms. It's really not that hard.

Can we get back to gaming, please? If the list chameleoneel showed is accurate, this is a handful of games... some of them arriving well after their PS4/PS5 launch dates. I'd also note that Rift Apart may not come to the PC for a while due to the requirement for a very fast SSD. In other words, it's not Sony admitting defeat; it's Sony determining that it can boost profits by porting games once they've exhausted most of their sales potential on PlayStation consoles. If these were movies, they'd be the Netflix releases a year after the theatrical debut.

then leave the nazi comments at home and prove your a grown up.

 

[Aurelius]

then leave the nazi comments at home and prove your a grown up.

Adults call out pro-Nazi bullshit when they see it; they don't let it slide because they think it's ironically cool, or because they're afraid of confrontation.

That's the last you'll hear from me on that subject, because we're supposed to be focused on gaming.

 

[scojer]

Adults call out pro-Nazi bullshit when they see it; they don't let it slide because they think it's ironically cool, or because they're afraid of confrontation.

That's the last you'll hear from me on that subject, because we're supposed to be focused on gaming.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Master_Race

In 2008, comedic writer Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw employed the comedically extreme term "Glorious PC Gaming Master Race" in a Zero Punctuation video-review for the role-playing game The Witcher for the online gaming magazine The Escapist. Croshaw explained that his initial intent in referencing Nazi Germany's master race ideology when he coined the intense term Glorious PC Gaming Master Race was to poke fun at an elitist attitude he perceived among some of The Witcher's PC playerbase at the time of The Witcher's release, who had complained about the PC release of the game being possibly negatively affected by the console port of the game:

"It was intended to be ironic, to illustrate what I perceived at the time to be an elitist attitude among a certain kind of PC gamer. People who invest in expensive gaming PCs and continually spend money to make sure the tech in their brightly-lit tower cases is up to date. Who actually prefer games that are temperamental to get running and that have complicated keyboard interfaces, just because it discourages new or 'casual' players who will in some way taint the entire community with their presence. I meant it as a dig."

So, it's tongue in cheek, just fyi.


I'm glad that Sony is hopping on the PC gaming bandwagon, and the fact that they're not just ports but they're adding graphical enhancements, is pretty amazing. Back in the days of straight console ports is when I was annoyed, but now, that they're taking the time to enhance their games, it shows that they're actually invested in it.

 

[Aurelius]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Master_Race


So, it's tongue in cheek, just fyi.


I'm glad that Sony is hopping on the PC gaming bandwagon, and the fact that they're not just ports but they're adding graphical enhancements, is pretty amazing. Back in the days of straight console ports is when I was annoyed, but now, that they're taking the time to enhance their games, it shows that they're actually invested in it.

Oh, it's certainly great that Sony is bringing those games over to PCs. It's not a bad thing to make games more accessible! We just shouldn't think this is Sony conceding to the "superiority" of PC gaming. It's a secondary revenue stream for a small portion of games, an attempt to wring more out of that initial investment. Sony isn't about to make the next Horizon or God of War game a simultaneous PC release.

 

[chameleoneel]

This leak feels like a load of bullshit, with the occasional "well duh" thing thrown in to make it seem legit. Tsushima and R&C both seem super likely, same with FFVR. PS5 games releasing that soon after release? Highly unlikely.

Chrono Cross remaster? HAAAAA! Not only would it have been announced already if it was releasing in December, but if SE was going to touch Chrono again they'd do more stuff with the much better loved Trigger.

There is no way in hell KH4 will be out by 2023. Nomura is a perfectionist and takes a long time to make anything. IF a new KH game ever happens, its a long way off.

There have been rumblings of SE doing something with FFT and TO, but don't count on either appearing that early. If they happen at all.

FFIX remake? What the ever living fuck are the leakers smoking?

Chrono Cross remaster has been asked for by fans for quite a while. And its a very popular game for modding. Remasters of classics are selling pretty well. I think a Chrono Cross remaster is a guaranteed money maker.

If KH4 releases in winter 2023 that's still 2 years away. Plenty of time for a game which has likely already been in development for some time. That said, these dates should be thought of as estimates or placeholders. I think the real news here, is that these games could actually be happening. People are taking it fairly seriously, because God of War on PC was leaked from the first trickle of this same data.

Again, an FFT remaster would absolutely be a garunteed seller.

FFIX remake ----- I'm going to say that rather than a completely re-imagined remake like FF7R---- this is a remake like the FFVIII remake. Where they re-did most of the character models, so it looks more like a PS2/PSP game. They applied a smoothing/blurring filter to the backgrounds, since they don't have the high res original data anymore. And they added a few cheats like speeding up the game, skipping random battles, etc.

 

[scojer]

Oh, it's certainly great that Sony is bringing those games over to PCs. It's not a bad thing to make games more accessible! We just shouldn't think this is Sony conceding to the "superiority" of PC gaming. It's a secondary revenue stream for a small portion of games, an attempt to wring more out of that initial investment. Sony isn't about to make the next Horizon or God of War game a simultaneous PC release.

True, it'd be dumb of them to release on both platforms at once. They want the hardware sales and only way to do that is to push exclusives, the PC releases are just to get the pulse on the flattening revenue line for said game.

 

[chameleoneel]

At this point, speeding up PC releases may be a move to make sure that these games make back their money at all. Because.......there are certainly a lot less people with PS5s right now, than Sony would like.

 

[vegeta535]

At this point, speeding up PC releases may be a move to make sure that these games make back their money at all. Because.......there are certainly a lot less people with PS5s right now, than Sony would like.

That is why s lot of games are still being released on PS4. Sony is quite happy with PS5 sales. Over a year later they still sell out instantly.

 

[Derangel]

At this point, speeding up PC releases may be a move to make sure that these games make back their money at all. Because.......there are certainly a lot less people with PS5s right now, than Sony would like.

They’ve sold 13.4 million PS5 units so far, which is only a few hundred thousand less than the PS4 sold in a similar time period.

 

[M76]

They’ve sold 13.4 million PS5 units so far, which is only a few hundred thousand less than the PS4 sold in a similar time period.

It doesn't really matter, if they smell money, they are not going to opt out. And what is more money, selling exclusively to 13 million people, or including the 1 billion PC gamers?

 

[noko]

They’ve sold 13.4 million PS5 units so far, which is only a few hundred thousand less than the PS4 sold in a similar time period.

So in the end AMD sold more RNDA2 engineered designs than Nvidia Ampere it seems. With upcoming RNDA2 APU's coming shortly should just stretch that lead.

 

[Aurelius]

True, it'd be dumb of them to release on both platforms at once. They want the hardware sales and only way to do that is to push exclusives, the PC releases are just to get the pulse on the flattening revenue line for said game.

There are also some simple technical reasons. It's easier to develop for consoles in some ways, as you can optimize for a very narrow set of hardware. This both makes it easier to enable certain gameplay mechanics (Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart wouldn't work as a PC title right now) and, of course, to finish a game sooner. That's part of why mobile games tend to both come to iOS first and generally run better than their Android equivalents.

 

[Derangel]

It doesn't really matter, if they smell money, they are not going to opt out. And what is more money, selling exclusively to 13 million people, or including the 1 billion PC gamers?

Read the post I was replying to.

 

[M76]

Read the post I was replying to.

I did, I was referring to the big picture. Whether they can recoup costs or not by selling just for PS5 is besides the point. If they can make twice as much profit or more by selling to PC gamers, why wouldn't they?

 

[Flogger23m]

I did, I was referring to the big picture. Whether they can recoup costs or not by selling just for PS5 is besides the point. If they can make twice as much profit or more by selling to PC gamers, why wouldn't they?

Generally PC gamers don't buy AAA games at as high of a rate as consoles. So doubling profit is doubtful. PC sales typically around around 1/3 of that of console sales. But that is a huge amount of money to be made regardless. If you sell 10 million copies on Playstation, that should translate into 3 million on PC easily. Obviously this is why Sony is selling on PC. And I believe they are gearing up for streaming / service based games further in the future. Looking 10-15 years down the road and the concept of dedicated hardware might not be the path they want going forward.

 

[M76]

Generally PC gamers don't buy AAA games at as high of a rate as consoles. So doubling profit is doubtful. PC sales typically around around 1/3 of that of console sales. But that is a huge amount of money to be made regardless. If you sell 10 million copies on Playstation, that should translate into 3 million on PC easily. Obviously this is why Sony is selling on PC. And I believe they are gearing up for streaming / service based games further in the future. Looking 10-15 years down the road and the concept of dedicated hardware might not be the path they want going forward.

You aren't selling 10 million copies of any game when your user base is 13 million. No game is bought by 80% of everyone on a platform. Towards the EOL of a console generation you might shift 10 million of top titles, but even today on the PS4 only a handful of games have made it to 10mil sales. (With an user base of over 100 million) So going by that if a game makes it to 1 million its a huge success with 13 million consoles shipped.

 

[DukenukemX]

Oh, it's certainly great that Sony is bringing those games over to PCs. It's not a bad thing to make games more accessible! We just shouldn't think this is Sony conceding to the "superiority" of PC gaming. It's a secondary revenue stream for a small portion of games, an attempt to wring more out of that initial investment. Sony isn't about to make the next Horizon or God of War game a simultaneous PC release.

It isn't just a secondary revenue. Microsoft has ignored PC gaming forever and now they're pushing for it. The Playstation platform isn't just the hardware but now it's cloud gaming and even on PC. As long as games are sold through their store then they don't care. Both Microsoft and Sony now realize that they need to expand their platforms beyond just a finite box of hardware. This could even include mobile gaming.

 

[LukeTbk]

Apple does it the worst and makes the most profits. Apple is the modern Nazi.

That seem like an extraordinary statement to me

No! Bad fanboy. Go back to your room.

I imagine the message is just a joke here, but that not what the video say.

 

[Wade88]

Some of us PCMR constituents have PCIE 4.0 SSD arrays.

 

[Flogger23m]

You aren't selling 10 million copies of any game when your user base is 13 million. No game is bought by 80% of everyone on a platform. Towards the EOL of a console generation you might shift 10 million of top titles, but even today on the PS4 only a handful of games have made it to 10mil sales. (With an user base of over 100 million) So going by that if a game makes it to 1 million its a huge success with 13 million consoles shipped.

True, but these games tend to be on PS4 as well. Exclusives in general have a high attachment rate too. If I recall in the initial days of the Xbox, Halo was selling alongside of 70% of the consoles for a while (percentage may be off, going from memory). So it isn't entirely out of the question. In general I think a lot of the people who buy consoles early are either big fans of the system or huge gamers so I'd think most of the install base or people frantically hitting F5 refreshing pages for them to come in stock are probably more likely to buy exclusives.

In any case, over the long term Sony won't have an issue selling millions of copies of these games on consoles alone. Even if sales trickle in slower due to shortages.

 

[chameleoneel]

True, but these games tend to be on PS4 as well. Exclusives in general have a high attachment rate too. If I recall in the initial days of the Xbox, Halo was selling alongside of 70% of the consoles for a while (percentage may be off, going from memory). So it isn't entirely out of the question. In general I think a lot of the people who buy consoles early are either big fans of the system or huge gamers so I'd think most of the install base or people frantically hitting F5 refreshing pages for them to come in stock are probably more likely to buy exclusives.

In any case, over the long term Sony won't have an issue selling millions of copies of these games on consoles alone. Even if sales trickle in slower due to shortages.

Sure but it isn't the business model to count on good lifetime sales. Most games from bigger companies are considered a success or a failure on the first 2 - 3 months of sales. Especially for games right now, which were developed on classic models. Not on pandemic models. I think Sony would have done the PC thing, anyway. But recouping overall dev costs is most probably bolstering their push towards PC ports.

 

[Aireoth]

Some of us PCMR constituents have PCIE 4.0 SSD arrays.

Maybe dumb question, do you run into PCIE Lane problems (lack of)?

 

[sharknice]

Even if they only make a couple million dollars they'll easily make more money than they invest in most of their PC releases.

It isn't like the old days where every game had it's own engine code doing all sorts of hardware specific calls that don't even exist on other consoles or PC hardware. The hardware now is super similar, and lot of games use things like Unreal Engine that make it almost trivial. And even if it isn't using an engine that already does 99% of the work it's still way easier than it was in the past.

 

[DukenukemX]

I think Sony would have done the PC thing, anyway. But recouping overall dev costs is most probably bolstering their push towards PC ports.

One has to wonder why would Sony not release their games on PC when PC isn't a competitor? It's an open platform that's free for anyone to make a store to sell their games. Sony is spending lots of money on their games and it doesn't make sense to limit the sales to just one platform. It does make sense to release their games on a PC where no one company rules how that environment works.

 

[DPI]

True, it'd be dumb of them to release on both platforms at once. They want the hardware sales and only way to do that is to push exclusives, the PC releases are just to get the pulse on the flattening revenue line for said game.

Agreed. But instead of releasing on both platforms, go one step further and release their exclusives on PC only, and open up PS5s for cryptomining. Boom, everyone's happy. Except console gamers but you can't really count them.

 

[GoldenTiger]

Agreed. But instead of releasing on both platforms, go one step further and release their exclusives on PC only, and open up PS5s for cryptomining. Boom, everyone's happy. Except console gamers but you can't really count them.

View attachment 410118

Ooooh, vicious! I like it.

 

[DukenukemX]

True, it'd be dumb of them to release on both platforms at once. They want the hardware sales and only way to do that is to push exclusives, the PC releases are just to get the pulse on the flattening revenue line for said game.

Hardware does not make Sony much of any money. The point of exclusives is to get you to buy games off the Playstation platform so that Sony can benefit from their 30% cut. This can also be achieved on PC with a store but it would be harder for Sony to push people to buy 3rd party games exclusively on their store. It's much easier for people to simply move their mouse and keyboard to Steam or Epic than it is for a console user to go out and spend another $500 on hardware that only plays games released on that platform. PC gaming has true competition while console gaming is a walled garden that makes hardware to punish you for being faithful, much like Apple.

 

[Aurelius]

It isn't just a secondary revenue. Microsoft has ignored PC gaming forever and now they're pushing for it. The Playstation platform isn't just the hardware but now it's cloud gaming and even on PC. As long as games are sold through their store then they don't care. Both Microsoft and Sony now realize that they need to expand their platforms beyond just a finite box of hardware. This could even include mobile gaming.

Sony is expanding, and likely should, but it's also treating PCs as secondary revenue. Otherwise Sony would be launching PC titles both closer to their console release dates and making more games available on computers. And it doesn't need to make PC-native versions to stream games.

Microsoft is pushing for PC gaming in part because it owns both the console and the PC OS... you know that, right? Simultaneous Xbox/PC releases work because Microsoft not only makes money from first-party titles, but from the "long tail" of higher Windows PC sales. That and overall Xbox sales (both the Series X/S and One) are much lower than for the PlayStation, so Microsoft is much more dependent on PC releases and the cloud than Sony is.

 

[DukenukemX]

Sony is expanding, and likely should, but it's also treating PCs as secondary revenue. Otherwise Sony would be launching PC titles both closer to their console release dates and making more games available on computers.

That is your assumption and probably not incorrect either. I think this move is more about Sony preparing itself for the future. Sony wouldn't create the label "Playstation PC" if they just wanted to make a quick buck. Sony is testing the water to see how releasing games on PC could effect their business model. The PC gaming market is if not as big but maybe bigger than Playstation. With Microsoft now realizing that majority of PC gaming occurs in their backyard, it might be pushing Sony to explore PC as well.

And it doesn't need to make PC-native versions to stream games.

Cloud gaming failed and you know it. PS Now failed the hardest if I'm not mistaken.

Microsoft is pushing for PC gaming in part because it owns both the console and the PC OS... you know that, right?

I'm sure Valve's Steam Deck also runs on Windows. Remind me again who sells the most PC games?

Simultaneous Xbox/PC releases work because Microsoft not only makes money from first-party titles, but from the "long tail" of higher Windows PC sales. That and overall Xbox sales (both the Series X/S and One) are much lower than for the PlayStation, so Microsoft is much more dependent on PC releases and the cloud than Sony is.

Microsoft pushing for PC is because the Xbox is dead. Microsoft stopped reporting Xbox One sales for a reason, and it isn't modesty. Microsoft made the smart move to merge Windows and Xbox into one giant Xbox gaming platform. It took Microsoft nearly two decades to realize they could do that. I don't know how Xbox isn't bankrupt yet.

 

[LurkerLito]

I'm sure Valve's Steam Deck also runs on Windows. Remind me again who sells the most PC games?

It doesn't it runs on Linux using the proton emulation layer for most games.

 

[Aurelius]

That is your assumption and probably not incorrect either. I think this move is more about Sony preparing itself for the future. Sony wouldn't create the label "Playstation PC" if they just wanted to make a quick buck. Sony is testing the water to see how releasing games on PC could effect their business model. The PC gaming market is if not as big but maybe bigger than Playstation. With Microsoft now realizing that majority of PC gaming occurs in their backyard, it might be pushing Sony to explore PC as well.

Eh, I wouldn't read too much into a label. That just means it's going to be a consistent presence; we'd still need much more evidence to show that this was a fundamental shift in Sony's business rather than scooping up the leftovers. While PC gaming is bigger than PlayStation, that doesn't mean the market for PlayStation games on PC is large enough. Remember, Sony's current strategy only caters to that subset of PC gamers that both have reasonably powerful hardware (even PS4 titles rule out some of the PC player base) and didn't already play the game on a PlayStation ages ago.

Cloud gaming failed and you know it. PS Now failed the hardest if I'm not mistaken.

It's struggling and may not hit the big time for a while (if ever), but it's not dead. Not even PlayStation Now. Microsoft is pushing it harder than Sony and is even planning Xbox streaming sticks.

I'm sure Valve's Steam Deck also runs on Windows. Remind me again who sells the most PC games?

Not true. It runs Linux and uses Proton to run Windows titles.

Microsoft pushing for PC is because the Xbox is dead. Microsoft stopped reporting Xbox One sales for a reason, and it isn't modesty. Microsoft made the smart move to merge Windows and Xbox into one giant Xbox gaming platform. It took Microsoft nearly two decades to realize they could do that. I don't know how Xbox isn't bankrupt yet.

Also untrue. The Xbox Series X/S represents a partial return to form; 8 million sales is still well behind Sony and partly explains the hybrid Xbox/Windows push, but it's faring better than the Xbox One did at this point. Microsoft is still believed to be selling every console it can make. The division was flat earnings-wise last quarter, so it's at least not in dire straits.

 

[Flogger23m]

While PC gaming is bigger than PlayStation, that doesn't mean the market for PlayStation games on PC is large enough.

PC gaming includes browser games and free to play gambling like games. These are popular in places like Asia. They make large amounts of money. However, they're a very different experience from AAA or even AA games like Fallout, Battlefield or The Witcher. Consoles still sell more of those types of games than PC.

Also untrue. The Xbox Series X/S represents a partial return to form; 8 million sales is still well behind Sony and partly explains the hybrid Xbox/Windows push, but it's faring better than the Xbox One did at this point. Microsoft is still believed to be selling every console it can make. The division was flat earnings-wise last quarter, so it's at least not in dire straits.

Microsoft might be getting a bit of a boost from this. If I was a console only gamer, I'd still pick up an Xbox even if I was a Playstation fan for playing multi platform games like Far Cry. Better than playing it on a PS4. I think at this point many console gamers will get whichever comes in stock.

 

[Aurelius]

PC gaming includes browser games and free to play gambling like games. These are popular in places like Asia. They make large amounts of money. However, they're a very different experience from AAA or even AA games like Fallout, Battlefield or The Witcher. Consoles still sell more of those types of games than PC.

That's a fair point I should have mentioned, and it reinforces the argument. Thanks! PC diehards like to pretend every gamer has a speedy system with a dedicated GPU and a hefty Steam library, but the truth is that many gamers are playing web titles or using budget machines with integrated graphics. They might not even know what Steam is. Hell, the Steam hardware survey as of October 2021 shows that 8.9% of users are running Intel graphics, and a significant portion of AMD's 15.2% are using integrated GPUs. In other words, a significant chunk of Steam users don't even meet the minimum requirements for Sony's PC ports.

Microsoft might be getting a bit of a boost from this. If I was a console only gamer, I'd still pick up an Xbox even if I was a Playstation fan for playing multi platform games like Far Cry. Better than playing it on a PS4. I think at this point many console gamers will get whichever comes in stock.

Oh, I'm sure Microsoft is getting a boost. I just think it's doing this because it needs a boost more than Sony does, and because this is as much about promoting Windows as it is promoting the Xbox. Remember, this is the company that revamped the Xbox UI to look like Windows 8 because it saw consoles as Trojan horses for its OS.

 

[Wade88]

Maybe dumb question, do you run into PCIE Lane problems (lack of)?

No, I run the arrays on a WRX80 system for work.