SFF and 3090/big navi viable?

raz-0

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I've been thinking to go small for my next build, but I was also going to finally upgrade my 1080, and have been waiting on their release. I've been doing a lot of reading and forum browsing on the subject, and I kind of hit a wall on being able to figure stuff out in terms of the viability of cramming a 350w TDP graphics card in a SFF case. The ncase m1 v6.1 looks sweet, but will it work? Especially with the leaked founders edition's weird cooler and layout I see potential issues.

But to take it back a bit, I'll go into my reasoning, and please correct me if I'm wrong.

So a case like the M1 or similar basically dumps a ton of air onto the card, and the card, if it is a blower style cooler, should just be dumping all the air it has heated up out the case from the vented slot covers. If it is an open cooler, it is going to be relying on dumping the heated air into the swiss cheese case and that air being expelled and replaced with new cool air. If you have 4 120mm fans pulling in air, even going with quiet fans, you are talking pulling in about 140cfm of air. Assuming the case can vent it as fast as it is pulled in, that's turning over the entire volume of the case ~300+ times per minute. Granted, that's probably not the case as some of the blowing effort probably gets eaten up creating the positive pressure to vent the case. But I'm taking an intuitive guess there because the fluid dynamics of air is not remotely my thing.

So wacky FE cooler aside, do you think it would work? Would the wacky FE cooler work with it's supposed push/pull design?

Why do some people report cooling issues with some RTX 2080ti cards in the case? Are they just victims of fan shrouds creating a dead space from blockage or is it more a turbulence thing? Could such a dead space be mitigated by going push/pull on the bottom fans? Are they just using one of the older versions with less side vents?

Enlighten me please.
 

obs

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This is going to depend a lot of the number of slots the GPU will take up and how many your case has. Air cooling with 2 GPU slots is probably going to be difficult in SFF depending on the case you go with if these rumored power consumption numbers are correct. You will likely be able to get around this with a custom loop but that's quite a bit more effort. Undervolting could also be an option but we won't know that until they're out.

I am using a custom loop in ghost S1 to cool a 2080 ti and still undervolt just to limit noise (and improve WAF).
 

raz-0

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DAmn, if this one is true, there is no way in hell a 3090 will fit. That would suck seeing as I pre-ordered one and have been waiting in line. Oh well shit happens.

https://www.techradar.com/news/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3090-leaked-photos-show-its-a-giant-among-gpus

Of course it could be BS. I did some measuring in photoshop, and it confirms what I suspected looking at it and the slot covers (or whatever the proper name for them when actually on a card is) are not the same length between the two cards. IF they are the industry standard 120mm, that fan is ~106mm which seems odd.

Doing the math between the slot cover and length, the card comes out to basically 300mmx120mm with a 106mm fan.

My measuring skills can't be too far off because referencing the 2080 in the picture, I come up with a length 265.7mm and it is supposed to be 267mm.

Given that level of accuracy in my pixel measuring and choosing points of reference, then if the 2080 is scaled properly, the slot cover is 134mm and change on the 3090. If the 3090 is not messed with, the 2080's slot cover is 107mm. >10% discrepancy is a lot to blame on pincushion or barrel distortion. But it might not. Measuring indicates it's a wide angle lens with the top of the frame closer to the cards.

But my measures say a 2.5 width card with 3 slot covers that is 300mm long I'm going to say optimistically 50mm thick. As for width, I'm not sure if you include the pci bit in that or not.

If the picture is accurate, if it fits it'll be TIGHT. I mean it would be tight in some full size cases.

but 3080 leaked pics don't look nearly so big. So we shall see.
 

SeymourGore

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I'm sure somebody will make it work. Don't know if the RTX 3090 would fit in a Ncase M1 (or the results if it did), but I'm sure somebody will figure it out via watercooling or other means.

I'm pretty confident the 2-slotter RTX 3080 will fit in a Ncase M1 at least.
 

raz-0

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I'm sure somebody will make it work. Don't know if the RTX 3090 would fit in a Ncase M1 (or the results if it did), but I'm sure somebody will figure it out via watercooling or other means.

I'm pretty confident the 2-slotter RTX 3080 will fit in a Ncase M1 at least.


With the weird notched board, the actual card is pretty short. So I wouldn't doubt someone can repeat one of the dual radiator seeps I've seen. A skinny 240 bottom, a fart one on the side, abs a reservoir abs pump out back with a custom loop would probably do.
 
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obs

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I'm just hoping some 3rd parties manage to shrink the PCB and a custom waterblock gets made for it. Might be a while after release though.
 

raz-0

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The hits just keep on coming.

There has been a leak of the adapter for the weird 12 pin connector. 850w psu recommended. Currently the biggest sfx-l supply is 800 watts.

https://www.thefpsreview.com/2020/0...nvidia-geforce-rtx-3090-to-require-850-w-psu/

Also witht he rumored prices, It looks like I may be shopping the 3080 becuse if MSRP is $1400 and it retails higher than that like the 1080 and 2080, then the 3090 is going to be out of my budget.
 

Epyon

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I just got my Dan A4 case and I will start building in it in a month or 2. I am going to take it offshore to do 3d rendering 24/7 power free. I would love to see the 3090 fit and i think someone will get it going with water cooling but if not the 3080 is fine by me as I am on a 2080 super and it is slow as shit rendering.
 

raz-0

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Well it looks like 3080 and 3090 cards are leaking pics, and they all look to be at least 310mm long and have HSF designs similar to existing 2080 cards that do not fit in the M1.

Well shit.
 

Skott

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On my FB today somebody was showing the link to Zotac's 3090 gpu and its triple slot. Two 8 pin connectors to power it though. If you guys are wanting a 3090 sounds like no matter who makes it its going to be triple slot card.
 

raz-0

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hmm that 3080 FE looks like it might fit.

and $699? dayum.

And there is no way in hell the 3090 will fit. Damn that is insane.
 
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Epyon

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Well the PCB is small so maybe someone can make a different cooler for it and maybe clock it down just a tad and or under volt.
 

Epos7

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Hoping these new cards will fit in the M1 if the stock cooler is replaced with a waterblock.
 

raz-0

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3080 FE size specs.

Founders Edition Card Dimensions:Length11.2" (285 mm)
Width4.4" (112 mm)
Height2-Slot


looks promising. I'm going to go for it. Hopefuly I can get my hands on it, but I have some ideas about what to do for fans and maybe 3d printing some shrouds/ducting

The 3090 though. It looked bigger than that to me.



Length12.3" (313 mm)
Width5.4" (138 mm)
Height3-Slot
 

raz-0

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Anyway, my thoughts are, looking at teh exploded views.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/30-series/rtx-3080/

I will also note a 750w recommendaiton for PSU. So no need for 850 there either.

That I might print a duct for the fan that exhausts out the case and let it pull in air direct form the bottom. THen put one or more fans at the back, possibly with ducting to force air up through the pass through fan. Some of the claims of exhaust working better has people guessing that 120mm fans cause turbulence that distrubs flow with the shrouded coolers. Since this is pull on the opposite side, and excessively fast air flow would get smoothed out by passing through the fins I'm hopong it will be effective. I also think I can add a couple more fans to the case with rev 6.1 given some of the mounting holes up top, component choice, and access to a 3d printer.
 

Epyon

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First, I did not even think about 3d printing a top cover with new fans that could work. Second, that hybrid looks very promising and i am going to wait for sure to see what ends up coming out. I get really excited thinking about taking any of these new cards offshore to feed my rendering needs. Thanks for posting those links I am hopeful now that we can at least get a 3080 in the Dan.
 

raz-0

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Well I was more thinking of printing a frame to hold fans under the top cover. It might not be feasible to get anything in there that actually moves sufficient volume, but from looking at build pics it looks like there should be space to do something. Something useful? Dunno.
 

obs

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The EVGA 3090 hydrocopper looks like it's small enough to fit in most SFF cases. Will have to wait until the final dimensions are released though.
 

GnomeCop

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I think it was a stroke of genius for Nvidia to just re-brand their Titan level card into a "normal" 30XX numbered card in the line up and lower the price. Suddenly, with this generation, so many more enthusiasts I know are feeling the need to get a Titan even though they never even remotely considered getting one with with any previous generation.

Sure the 1k price drop from previous Titans is a strong draw. But the prevailing attitude before was that the card was so extra, it was unnecessary, but now people seem to be trying to move financial and system spec/fit mountains to get one into their system. Very well played Nvidia changing attitudes so drastically.

Not really a judgement on anyone who wants to get one, just impressed at how they changed people's minds so easily. $1k savings is no joke. Hell I would love to have one too.
For iTX owners who are struggling to figure out how to fit one into their system, I think the best hope is to wait for 3rd party versions, there should be some interesting designs coming.

Either way, I bet the performance will be insane though and it will inspire all these ITX case creators to offer more interesting designs. I feel like it will be quite awhile though because the 3rd party cards will need to come out so they can get a better idea of the card size landscape.
 

Epyon

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Maybe hopper being MCM will offer smaller cards or the same size that are super easy to cool. But for now I just want a 3080 in my Dan A4. I have not started building it yet but soon.
 

DoubleTap

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A 3090 with a water block should easily fit the M1.

Could not be happier that I went with the big, external MORA3 rad - it no longer feels like overkill...
 

kill8r

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A 3090 with a water block should easily fit the M1.

Could not be happier that I went with the big, external MORA3 rad - it no longer feels like overkill...
Do you think with a Waterbeach and dual internal setup all will fit ok in the m1? External rad wouldn't work for me
 

DoubleTap

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Do you think with a Waterbeach and dual internal setup all will fit ok in the m1? External rad wouldn't work for me

I don't know what a Waterbeach is but you can run a 38mm rad on the side and a 22mm (maybe a 28mm) rad in the bottom.

It seems to be barely enough for an undervolted 2080ti, I doubt it's enough for a 3090

 

Ready4Dis

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I guess it depends on your definition of a SFF. I would have to see what 2-slot 3090's come out, otherwise I'd have to take a dremel and make room for the 3rd slot as my case only has cutouts for 2 slots. Keep in mind, fitting and working well may be 2 different things. I am planning on doing a custom loop at some point, which would come in handy with a 3090 for sure, but I don't really have plans to get one. If anyone wants to donate one I'd gladly see if it fits for you, lol. I can fit 360mm worth of rad inside without modification, and probably could stuff 480mm in it with some modifications. I'm sure there are other cases as well, but again, depends on your definition of SFF and what is acceptable for running conditions (full loop vs. blower style cooler, overclocking headroom, etc).

AZZA CSAZ-103
 

Skott

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You just know somebody is going to try and put a 3090 into a Ncase. Its inevitable. lol
 

raz-0

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Just as a note. The 3080 cards NEED a true SFX PSU in this case. THe SX800 being sfx-l plus very protruding connectors just does not fit. But I got my 3080FE, and I snagged an SX700-PT psu because they exist, and frankly the process is pretty non dramatic.I haven't beaten it to death with furmark or anything yet, but with some light gaming there was no drama. Two intakes at bottom and two exhaust fans on the side. All low profile so as to not cause turbulence issues that make the fans not work. A noctual nh-c14s with a 120m on the bottom and one of the side 120mm slim fans working as push pull to exhaust form case. A 90 mm slim fan on the back as intake. The 90mm is the biggest issue noise wise. I had a full thickness one there, but it was too noisy and created turbulence noise to boot. SO I went with a slim one, put in an rpm reducer, and used a couple anti-vibration grommets to stand it off a wee bit while still clearing the cooler.

CPU cooling is odd, so I have to do some deliberate benchmarking and trouble shooting to see if I can get that under control. Haven't updated the bios to the latest and greatest yet and I suspect my fan speeds need some tweaking. But I'm getting the all too common 50C at idle temps. I figure I should be able to get at least close to the 37-40C chipset temps. Or at least that is what I'm used to.
 

raz-0

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Ok cpu temp was boring. Latest chipset drivers from amd and at idle it bounces between 37-39c.

Felt like trying out a game rather than benchmarking and gpu hit 71c and cpu hit 69c. So very undramatic. It is a little space heater though but the guess that means I’m getting the heat out of the case well.
 

cjcox

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Back to OP... "Uh... no."

Converse analogy: Can I get a phone that's housed in a 4U rackmount case with 64 drive bays powered by battery?

Answer: (you really need someone to answer this?)
 

criccio

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I don't know what a Waterbeach is but you can run a 38mm rad on the side and a 22mm (maybe a 28mm) rad in the bottom.

It seems to be barely enough for an undervolted 2080ti, I doubt it's enough for a 3090


I was scrolling to see when an Optimum Tech vid would be posted. If there are any questions about what will and will not fit in an SFF case, this guy has tried.
 

raz-0

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Back to OP... "Uh... no."

Converse analogy: Can I get a phone that's housed in a 4U rackmount case with 64 drive bays powered by battery?

Answer: (you really need someone to answer this?)

Truly fucking brilliant. You do realize this thread was started before we had actual sizes and pretty much just knew there would be something called a 3090 from a leaked name, right?

Also you can actually fit the asus tuf 3090 in the case if you do it right. You can probably fit any of them in a case with a dual rad loop.

Now we need pics, you know that, right?

It isn't terribly interesting. It's mostly a hash of zip ties trying to keep the giant power cables from interfering with the fans. That and I wanted the front panel I/O in place, so I have those cables to boot. Most of the nice pics of such things involve custom cables and no front I/O cables. Unless you are interested in the harsh reality of living with out of the box stuff on an M1 build. I also had to cram in a fan bus. I suspect most builds are uisng an AIO and thus they can go to the cpu header with a single splitter while the pump goes to the pump header and bottom can use a single splitter.

Currently it isn't super pretty, but after adjusting fan curves, it's tolerable on the noise front unless really hammering it. Quieter idle means I had to give up on the 37C cpu temps. I figure 43C is fine for the more pleasant experience. When the smoke clears from my wallet, I think I may try my hand at DIY cable sleeving.
 
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