Raptor Lake refresh

Peat Moss

Gawd
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
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Rumors now heating up that the RLR will come out in August this year. Hopefully we'll see some temp and power improvements, although I know more people are probably waiting for Arrow Lake and the next 14th gen redesign.
 
Rumors now heating up that the RLR will come out in August this year. Hopefully we'll see some temp and power improvements, although I know more people are probably waiting for Arrow Lake and the next 14th gen redesign.
I wouldn't expect much from these refresh processors.

ML doesn't look like worthwhile improvement over RL with new motherboards getting more expensive each generation and Intel idiotic strategy to always claiming they need to change it to improve power delivery - even if supposed new processors being much more more power efficient.
AL for now looks interesting - but if it really will be will depend on what AMD comes up with by that point in time.
 
I wouldn't expect much from these refresh processors.

ML doesn't look like worthwhile improvement over RL with new motherboards getting more expensive each generation and Intel idiotic strategy to always claiming they need to change it to improve power delivery - even if supposed new processors being much more more power efficient.
AL for now looks interesting - but if it really will be will depend on what AMD comes up with by that point in time.

Even if a refresh got only a 200MHz uplift, that would put the 13900K to 6 GHz. If Intel could do that while keeping power draw and temps reasonable, it would be worth it.
 
Just a 200mhz uplift is worth another $500+ dollar to you? Probably would require a new MB too. Nah not worth it.

What do you mean "another" $500 ? I'm talking about buying from scratch. And no, the Raptor Lake refresh will not require a new mobo. It will be the same socket.
 
What do you mean "another" $500 ? I'm talking about buying from scratch. And no, the Raptor Lake refresh will not require a new mobo. It will be the same socket.

You already got your two generations on this socket. Intel will artificially change something to force a new socket on you (see also Z270 not allowing coffee lake chips)
 
You already got your two generations on this socket. Intel will artificially change something to force a new socket on you (see also Z270 not allowing coffee lake chips)

Huh? What's the second gen of Raptor Lake? It's only been out less than a year.
 
Even if a refresh got only a 200MHz uplift, that would put the 13900K to 6 GHz. If Intel could do that while keeping power draw and temps reasonable, it would be worth it.

"keep reasonable" implies that it is reasonable now.
 
Huh? What's the second gen of Raptor Lake? It's only been out less than a year.

Guessing he means Alder and Raptor Lake, where both go on the same 1700 socket.
Historically he is right. Kinda hope with all this competition with AMD for another generation on the 1700 socket, however i wouldn't get my hopes up.
 
Guessing he means Alder and Raptor Lake, where both go on the same 1700 socket.
Historically he is right. Kinda hope with all this competition with AMD for another generation on the 1700 socket, however i wouldn't get my hopes up.

Intel hasn't exactly been shy about changing "power delivery" requirements on boards to artificially create chipset demand over the years. They've already done it with the "Z370" motherboards which were essentially Z270 boards just tweaked with the new socket power delivery. Intel said it was necessary and Z270 had only been out for a few months with the 7700k, but der8auer had a video showing how after taping off all the "new" pins that a 8700k performed exactly the same on a modded Z270 board with "limited" power delivery.

I would be VERY surprised if it DOESN'T require a new motherboard.
 
Intel hasn't exactly been shy about changing "power delivery" requirements on boards to artificially create chipset demand over the years. They've already done it with the "Z370" motherboards which were essentially Z270 boards just tweaked with the new socket power delivery. Intel said it was necessary and Z270 had only been out for a few months with the 7700k, but der8auer had a video showing how after taping off all the "new" pins that a 8700k performed exactly the same on a modded Z270 board with "limited" power delivery.

I would be VERY surprised if it DOESN'T require a new motherboard.
Even funnier thing is that people were putting 9900K in Z170 motherboards with DDR3 memory

I would say Intel might make refreshed Raptors not work on previous x6x0 chipsets and say only x7x0 chipsets are supported.
Hopefully not. I do not think they are in the position right now to continue this 'strategy' ...
 
I guess there's nothing they can do for the socket at this point so that a contact frame wouldn't be needed on the new z890 mobos?
 
Would not be surprising at all if you do not need a new motherboard imo, specially DDR-5 models.

If it is an express affair made in case Meteor Lake is late hesitating to call it 13950k or 14900k, waiting to see the actual gain to decide, putting time and effort into artificially making a new socket ? That would have maybe never released ?

And wouldn't MT need a new one right away just after ? AMD competition seem too strong to play game like that (if it is really artificial)
 
Would not be surprising at all if you do not need a new motherboard imo, specially DDR-5 models.

If it is an express affair made in case Meteor Lake is late hesitating to call it 13950k or 14900k, waiting to see the actual gain to decide, putting time and effort into artificially making a new socket ? That would have maybe never released ?

And wouldn't MT need a new one right away just after ? AMD competition seem too strong to play game like that (if it is really artificial)

You're not even looking at recent history when saying that. Intel ALREADY did multiple architectures on the same socket as recently as LGA1200. On the one hand Comet Lake was just rehashed Coffee Lake (and probably didn't need a new socket either). And then you had Rocket Lake which was new using the same socket/power delivery, etc.

We haven't had a "refresh" line since Haswell, and Haswell was the first gen in that socket (the much less known or available Broadwell was the 2nd), so the "refresh" was essentially the 2nd gen in that socket before moving to Skylake.

If it comes out as a 14900k, I would say 90% chance of new motherboard/chipset required (just the way Intel works). If it is a 13950k (like the Haswell refresh), then it will probably work with older boards.
 
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I´ve bought my z790 Apex for the refresh in march already because rumors pointed out that there will be no new "z" chipset for the refresh.
Z790 already can run with "DLVR".
All z890 info i found was always combined with info about the newer tiled intel chips.
So let´s wait and see ;)
 
You're not even looking at recent history when saying that. Intel ALREADY did multiple architectures on the same socket as recently as LGA1200. On the one hand Comet Lake was just rehashed Coffee Lake (and probably didn't need a new socket either). And then you had Rocket Lake which was new using the same socket/power delivery, etc.

We haven't had a "refresh" line since Haswell, and Haswell was the first gen in that socket (the much less known or available Broadwell was the 2nd), so the "refresh" was essentially the 2nd gen in that socket before moving to Skylake.

If it comes out as a 14900k, I would say 90% chance of new motherboard/chipset required (just the way Intel works). If it is a 13950k (like the Haswell refresh), then it will probably work with older boards.
Totally agree, I'd lean much more on the new mobo/socket scenario based on prior history.
 
I´ve bought my z790 Apex for the refresh in march already because rumors pointed out that there will be no new "z" chipset for the refresh.
Z790 already can run with "DLVR".
All z890 info i found was always combined with info about the newer tiled intel chips.
So let´s wait and see ;)
Do you already have a 13xxx CPU?
 
You're not even looking at recent history when saying that
It would just mean that months of rumors, would turn out to be true:
https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-c...pports-lga1851-socket-and-lpddr5x-7500-memory
https://www.techpowerup.com/307063/intel-raptor-lake-refresh-to-retain-13th-gen-core-branding

MVQjX2Dt2ZI8rxCz.jpg


One could have doubt, but fall off their chair surprised if that happen ?

And when you talk about history, was AMD competition on socket longevity at the same level and were that generation a plan B that could never happen if the actual new generation planned happen on time ?
 
It would just mean that months of rumors, would turn out to be true:
https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-c...pports-lga1851-socket-and-lpddr5x-7500-memory
https://www.techpowerup.com/307063/intel-raptor-lake-refresh-to-retain-13th-gen-core-branding

View attachment 569463

One could have doubt, but fall off their chair surprised if that happen ?

And when you talk about history, was AMD competition on socket longevity at the same level and were that generation a plan B that could never happen if the actual new generation planned happen on time ?

You implied that just because Meteor Lake was a new architecture that it would require a new socket. I pointed out that Intel as early as the last socket had two different architectures in the same socket.

If RL refresh launches as a 13th gen part, then there's no reason to assume it would need a new motherboard. If it launches as a 14th gen part, then they will probably need a new motherboard just because that's the way Intel does things. I've seen rumors pointing to both.

AMD was already pretty competitive around the time that Intel was playing shenanigans with Coffee Lake. They were already arguably behind AMD when Comet Lake was released with a new socket.
 
It's almost like you didn't read half of what I posted and distorted the other half.
I get feeling more probable to be otherwise, but it is not like we have not been prepared for the Rocket Lake refresh to keep the same socket, if Meteor lake is too late or 2 late to have good volume to force it to exist.
 
I get feeling more probable to be otherwise, but it is not like we have not been prepared for the Rocket Lake refresh to keep the same socket, if Meteor lake is too late or 2 late to have good volume to force it to exist.

I deleted that part because I felt like it was antagonistic. I'm not trying to be antagonistic. I'm trying to be realistic based on Intel's past practice.
 
Currently i test and play with a 12600k and 13900ks.
August ist the release of the usual bins.
I have hopes for a 13950ks around end of the year.
If you already have the top-end SKU why would you buy the refresh? The performance difference will be marginal.
 
You implied that just because Meteor Lake was a new architecture that it would require a new socket. I pointed out that Intel as early as the last socket had two different architectures in the same socket.
Yeah that I did not make sense on that one, Meteor Lake will be on a new socket versus 12-13k family because it is how intel do things (and maybe for good reason), a refresh could make the jump right away I suppose.
 
Yeah that I did not make sense on that one, Meteor Lake will be on a new socket versus 12-13k family because it is how intel do things (and maybe for good reason), a refresh could make the jump right away I suppose.

I totally agree that ML will be on a new socket. I have no doubt that Intel could be more like AMD with generational socket compatibility but chooses not to.

Where we might disagree is whether or not it's for a good reason ;). Of course, I'm saying this as a bitter z270 owner who had to buy a new motherboard to get six cores instead of four.
 
I totally agree that ML will be on a new socket. I have no doubt that Intel could be more like AMD with generational socket compatibility but chooses not to.

Where we might disagree is whether or not it's for a good reason ;). Of course, I'm saying this as a bitter z270 owner who had to buy a new motherboard to get six cores instead of four.
I have had 6 core or better Intel chips since 980x. What's your point? Cheap fucker.
 
Nearly every leak and rumor I've read says RLR will remain on the same LGA 1700 socket. As for the power draw, I've read conflicting reports about this. Some say it will draw less power (e.g. 125W) other say even more power than 13th Gen.
 
If RLR is only going to be 200Mhz faster, (for say, the 14900K) then what is the point of releasing it? Will these chips be better binned? Will they use less power? What is the point of having a nearly identical chip to the 13900K? Was this ever done with a previous gen?
 
I suspect the whole reason the refresh exists is to increase prices without pissing people off. There were rumors of a price hike earlier this year, but it never panned out.
The 14900K effectively replaces the 13900KS which was a really low yielding chip - at the new pricing its effectively priced out of relevance which is probably what Intel wants (it lets them wind up at the top of benchmark charts, but not have to deal with meeting demand for what must be a very tightly binned SKU). The 14700K seems interesting, and the 14600K is also priced out of relevance - it's nowhere near regular i5 pricing and definitely worth the $100 to get two more P-cores. It's also so close to 7800X3D street pricing that you would be crazy to pick the E-cores over the extra cache and P-cores.
Another way this could pan out is the high MSRP will allow retailers to push aggressive discounts, which help move product, especially during the holidays. The entire AMD product lineup is constantly on sale, and winds up priced where it should be anyway.
 
Pricing is a little disappointing. I specifically put together a Z790 using a 12600K to be able to move to 14th-gen (instead of just going 13th-gen now). Hopefully the theory about high MSRP => more sales pans out, at least by spring-time or so.

-bZj
 
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