Navi discussion thread

Market share and perception is a funny thing. Check this chart. Almost the entire run of GTX 10 series, which many tout as one of NVidias greatest successes, NVidia's share is trending down. But note it spiking up at the end where RTX 20 starts, you know the series that is selling so "poorly"...
Add-in-Board-GPU-Market-Share-2002-to-Q4-2018.png
 
Market share and perception is a funny thing. Check this chart. Almost the entire run of GTX 10 series, which many tout as one of NVidias greatest successes, NVidia's share is trending down. But note it spiking up at the end where RTX 20 starts, you know the series that is selling so "poorly"...

I see some funny trends in that picture.

G80 was the pint where NVIDIA established a market share lead they never lost.
Maxwell was were NVIDIA expanded that lead.
Turing seems to be where they expand it even further.

All AMD has done since the G80 is to recoup a little market share too then loose it when NVIDIA launches a new SKU

And Fermi sold way better than I thought.
 
I see some funny trends in that picture.

G80 was the pint where NVIDIA established a market share lead they never lost.
Maxwell was were NVIDIA expanded that lead.
Turing seems to be where they expand it even further.

All AMD has done since the G80 is to recoup a little market share too then loose it when NVIDIA launches a new SKU

And Fermi sold way better than I thought.


when fermi sells more that just tells you how bad fanboy mindset is lol.
 
Market share and perception is a funny thing. Check this chart. Almost the entire run of GTX 10 series, which many tout as one of NVidias greatest successes, NVidia's share is trending down. But note it spiking up at the end where RTX 20 starts, you know the series that is selling so "poorly"...]

That's easily explained and it's nothing to do with Turing selling well and more to do with the fact that AMD have nothing for sale. If you look back at the previous time AMD had nothing new for sale, that was around the time of the 390. Nvidia just dropped the price of the 980/970 and released the 980Ti to spoil the Fury launch.

Basically the two best stretches for Nvidia were when AMD had nothing new for sale for a long period of time.
 
when fermi sells more that just tells you how bad fanboy mindset is lol.

Fanboyism is a made up term for the tech forums. It doesn't really exist outside of that small world. Brand loyalty is totally different.
 
Fanboyism is a made up term for the tech forums. It doesn't really exist outside of that small world. Brand loyalty is totally different.
I hope I missed the sarcasm with this one... A fanboy is someone with brand loyalty, any dictionary whether web-based or print will show it. It happens on all markets of consumer purchases most times without people recognising. Most people that partake in it just don't want to admit they make purchases off ingrained bias or brand loyalty.
 
I hope I missed the sarcasm with this one... A fanboy is someone with brand loyalty, any dictionary whether web-based or print will show it. It happens on all markets of consumer purchases most times without people recognising. Most people that partake in it just don't want to admit they make purchases off ingrained bias or brand loyalty.

Nope, no sarcasm. Forum fanboys are far more than brand loyal. They attack others that favor a different brand and attack companies for perceived evils that aren't their brand. That's a fanboy.

Brand loyalty doesn't go to that extreme.
 
Market share and perception is a funny thing. Check this chart. Almost the entire run of GTX 10 series, which many tout as one of NVidias greatest successes, NVidia's share is trending down. But note it spiking up at the end where RTX 20 starts, you know the series that is selling so "poorly"...
View attachment 171855

I wonder if crpyto influenced that. Both vendors ran out of cards around the 1080 portion.
 
Nope, no sarcasm. Forum fanboys are far more than brand loyal. They attack others that favor a different brand and attack companies for perceived evils that aren't their brand. That's a fanboy.

Brand loyalty doesn't go to that extreme.
I would be to differ, Ford or Chevy people do the same.


Those are some interesting benches. Just a snack before the buffet of reviews 7/7. None of these cards do anything for me but I like the drama.
 


They did some comparison on the benchmarks from AMD and current ones they did on the super range ....
 
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This is a polish website I think the most surprising one is the last one :View attachment 171878


Nvidia RTX 2070S 293
AMD Navi 5700XT 280

Nvidia RTX 2060S 261
AMD Navi 5700 247

You would not guess that from listed TDP by both companies....

I do expect better power consumption moving to 7nm process and having a new architecture. It is nice to see AMD finally getting power consumption under control. I am still waiting for other review as the Polish reviewers methodology seems questionable, total system power draw using a 9900K seems awfully low.
 
I do expect better power consumption moving to 7nm process and having a new architecture. It is nice to see AMD finally getting power consumption under control. I am still waiting for other review as the Polish reviewers methodology seems questionable, total system power draw using a 9900K seems awfully low.

I like the power tests that isolate card power. Since a card with higher FPS is going to make the CPU work harder.

For instance 5700 and 570 are tied, but 5700 is performing better, and likely making the CPU work harder, so in that comparison CPU power usage has likely increased meaning the 5700 is actually drawing less than a 570.
 
Fanboyism is a made up term for the tech forums. It doesn't really exist outside of that small world. Brand loyalty is totally different.
lol isn't that the same thing. Apple brand loyalist = Apple fanboy. Same meaning just different term.
 
Last time I checked, this is the Navi discussion thread, not the Nvidia market share thread, what AMD has or has not done in the last 15 years thread, a price war thread or any other thing than a Navi discussion thread. Cool thing is, AMD has produced a new architecture, on a low budget, has a home run with all their Ryzen products, is making money because of that, and is now able to sink more money into research and development. The 5700 and 5700XT appear to be great cards and they are just the beginning. AMD just needs to continue doing what they are doing, the CEO knows her stuff, unlike the armchair CEO's in this thread. (Some would have driven the company into the ground.)
 
Probably true given Videocardz historical accuracy.

Though I would class this more as making Navi Viable again, after NVidias pre-emptive strike, than really shaking things up.

If AMD did nothing, Navi likely would have been dead in the water. This essentially puts the playing field back to where it was before "Super" launched.

It also gave NVIDIA the chance to shrink AMD’s profit...and now NVIDIA can take a “wait and see” approach...and do a pricecit if the sales are not to their liking.
 
Probably true given Videocardz historical accuracy.

Though I would class this more as making Navi Viable again, after NVidias pre-emptive strike, than really shaking things up.

If AMD did nothing, Navi likely would have been dead in the water. This essentially puts the playing field back to where it was before "Super" launched.

So you are saying all credits goes to nvidia? I think AMD was smart here. They priced it at 449 pushing nvidia higher, where they knew they had enough margins even at 399.99. I doubt nvidia will drop the price here because give the 2070s Die they will refuse to give their margins.
 
It also gave NVIDIA the chance to shrink AMD’s profit...and now NVIDIA can take a “wait and see” approach...and do a pricecit if the sales are not to their liking.

Nvidia shrinking AMD's profit? Are you serious on that? Look at the die size of navi vs 2070s. I can bet AMD is still raking in hefty profits on Navi. It is still well above 50%, probably 75+. 399.99 was probably the price they wanted to go with all along but wanted to ensure nvidia prices their refresh higher. If nvidia drops now, nvidia is lilkely making less margins on their cards then AMD.

AMD is going to be rolling in profits soon, even though they are likely making margins on navi the real profit maker is going to be zen 2 for them.
 
That latest leak is actually rather encouraging. I've been pretty down on Navi, but if that leak is reasonably close to reality, some form of Navi card might make it into my system the next time I upgrade.
 
Nvidia shrinking AMD's profit? Are you serious on that? Look at the die size of navi vs 2070s. I can bet AMD is still raking in hefty profits on Navi. It is still well above 50%, probably 75+. 399.99 was probably the price they wanted to go with all along but wanted to ensure nvidia prices their refresh higher. If nvidia drops now, nvidia is lilkely making less margins on their cards then AMD.

AMD is going to be rolling in profits soon, even though they are likely making margins on navi the real profit maker is going to be zen 2 for them.

Is that before or after accounting for the fact 7nm wafers are much more expensive?
 
Is that before or after accounting for the fact 7nm wafers are much more expensive?

ofcourse after. Look at the die size amd ofcourse cant sell it for polaris pricing that would leave them with no margins. Since they got performance past 2070 they can easily sell it for 400 and still maintain great margins at 400. Polaris had some margins even at 250. But not as much as they would have liked. If these cards are costing them 200-250 all the way to the retailers, which is basically the entire cost of polaris with margins. They are still making good margins at 400.
 
So you are saying all credits goes to nvidia? I think AMD was smart here. They priced it at 449 pushing nvidia higher, where they knew they had enough margins even at 399.99. I doubt nvidia will drop the price here because give the 2070s Die they will refuse to give their margins.

errr, what? This isn't about credit. It is simply what happened.

AMD released Navi specs/pricing (action), and NVidia responded by releasing new products to play spoiler to AMDs launch (reaction), then AMD responded by lowering prices to regain it's launch footing (reaction). It almost certainly stops there.


Nvidia shrinking AMD's profit? Are you serious on that? Look at the die size of navi vs 2070s. I can bet AMD is still raking in hefty profits on Navi. It is still well above 50%, probably 75+. 399.99 was probably the price they wanted to go with all along but wanted to ensure nvidia prices their refresh higher. If nvidia drops now, nvidia is lilkely making less margins on their cards then AMD.

A: it's a fact that NVidia just caused AMD to lose about $30-$50 of each cards launch price. What it cost NVidia to do this doesn't change that fact.

B: The days of significant free transistors on smaller processes are long gone. You can't compare die size across different processes. What you should be looking at is transistor counts because Transistor costs have flat lined as I was discussing in a another thread:
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...review-roundup.1983562/page-3#post-1044252128

handel1-png.png


The 2060/2060 Super/2070 FE Die and the 5700 Die have similar transistor counts, and likely have similar die cost.

The new 2070 Super moves up to the 2080 die, so it has a more costly, higher transistor count die, than the 5700Xt. But a heavily cut down part, so hard to pin down, but NVidia is almost certainly at a cost disadvantage here.

C: But being first to market matters a lot. NVidia has had something like 8 months to charge full premium before this recent "price cut", while AMD faces a price cut out of the gate. Cutting to the extreme example to make this point. 5700 and 2060 FE/Super have similar costs. NVidia could make a profit for 8 months, then cut prices to ZERO profit when AMD shows up in the market. End result NVidia still makes an overall profit on 2060, and AMD makes zero. This isn't being "pro-NVidia", just pointing out what an advantage being first to market is. It would be suicide for the late comer to start a price war.
 
Instead of arguing shouldn't people be happy there is some degree of competition now?

Navi is most definitely faster than the 2070 which likely led to the launch of the super line (ala 1070ti) and now Navi is dropping $50 in price in response to super.

Near 1080ti performance is FINALLY under $500.
 
Instead of arguing shouldn't people be happy there is some degree of competition now?

Navi is most definitely faster than the 2070 which likely led to the launch of the super line (ala 1070ti) and now Navi is dropping $50 in price in response to super.

Near 1080ti performance is FINALLY under $500.

Yeah, it's all good. This looks like AMDs most comprehensively competitive part in a LONG time.
 
Instead of arguing shouldn't people be happy there is some degree of competition now?

Navi is most definitely faster than the 2070 which likely led to the launch of the super line (ala 1070ti) and now Navi is dropping $50 in price in response to super.

Near 1080ti performance is FINALLY under $500.

and nvidia also dropped 50$ on the vanilla/regular 2070 and 2060 gpus making again navi irrelevant beyond their own AMD fanbase, but AMD is not offering a GPU to their fanbase to upgrade... no incentive, navi won't be any compelling to any nvidia follower. Turing is overpriced, Navi it is even more..
 
and nvidia also dropped 50$ on the vanilla/regular 2070 and 2060 gpus making again navi irrelevant beyond their own AMD fanbase, but AMD is not offering a GPU to their fanbase to upgrade... no incentive, navi won't be any compelling to any nvidia follower. Turing is overpriced, Navi it is even more..
The thing isnt even out yet and you wanna take one leak and act like we know everything.
Why not relax and wait until post nda reviews come out.
 
Forbes is also reporting that their sources are saying AMD will launch at $349/$399 to combat the new super cards.
 
If the price drop info is true... I would say AMD just out gamed NV.

AMD has clearly known the super cards where coming. There are no major secretes in the industry... one partner talks to a buddy here or there over a beer and even if AMD didn't have a card in hand they would have had a good idea what NVs plan was.

The slides AMD showed off for NAVI where vs 2070/2060 founders cards... they only mentioned it in the fine print and publicly days later (after super was already locked in). So NV releases some super cards that are closer to the founders cards then the regular partner cards in performance and a slightly lower price. Review sites are going to pit 5700 vs the supers and see numbers not far off the numbers AMD already talked about... and at the last second they drop their actual pricing before product is even on the shelf.

People have also been talking about Ryzen2/Navi release timing with the US long weekend. I think it's brilliant a ton of Intel and NV marketing types not around to properly respond. (ok I'm sure those folks are just working more then they would like).

Still it's nice to see AMD not just up their game on the hardware but also the gamesmanship. I held off a smoking deal on a vega56 just incase 5700 was worth a few extra pennies.... crossing my fingers that I didn't F up not pulling the trigger on a $350 cnd 56. lol
 
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