Microchip Shortage Hits Auto Industry Too

Martin the Kiteboy

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Messages
111
Car and Driver: Microchip Shortage Delays Auto Production
A convergence of macroeconomic and political events led to the semiconductor shortage, Gartner analyst Gupta said. In the spring, demand for cars fell. In response, automakers cut orders for microchips. At the same time, the demand for consumer electronics—notably the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X, as well as laptops and desktops for working from home—skyrocketed. Microchip suppliers adjusted production accordingly, and now that car demand has recovered much more quickly than expected, suppliers haven't been ready to respond.

Additionally, several moves by the Trump administration in the U.S.-China trade war resulted in fewer semiconductors coming into the marketplace, ultimately exacerbating the supply glut, Gupta said. And then, lastly, the older microchips that the auto industry relies on—commonly referred to as eight-inch wafers—can't be produced quickly enough by automotive chip manufacturers such as NXP Semiconductors and Infineon due to manufacturing limitations.

A lot of this is what we have heard already, but it is interesting seeing that the shortages really are spread wide and that it is not just us in the Consumer Electronics Hardware sector feeling the pinch.
 
Them having problems with supply of 8" (200mm) wafers is a bit surprising; that's old tech and independent of the 300mm wafers that the modern processes everyone else is fighting for use.
 
Yeah, that is the bit that seems to corroborate the news going around that at least part of the supply breakdown is at the wafer level or further upstream. Having the auto analyst specifically calling out NXP and Infineon gives this more clout in my mind. There is research here, not just topical wailing/parroting of widespread shortage without substance.
 
Them having problems with supply of 8" (200mm) wafers is a bit surprising; that's old tech and independent of the 300mm wafers that the modern processes everyone else is fighting for use.


That old tech still has to deal with the issues of worldwide sourcing for your raw materials to build those complex wafers, as well as the added costs for each fab to disinfect the entire factory between shifts, and to hire enough depth to handle sick workers.

I was kinda surprised that it took that long to show itself, but when you work in the automotive micro controller world you tend to have multiple second-sources to handle supply issues.

It's a lot easier to handle spotty supplies if you have inventories sourced from multiple foundries (unlike TSMC, where that's all AMD plus Sony plus MS can get is divided between them), but until covid is contained these spotty production runs will (temporarily) stop everything waiting on them further up the chain!
 
Last edited:
It's easy to fix shortage by using knobs nd buttons instead of computers nd touchescreens in cars:)

You win I was going to say this I dislike modern vehicles with the many computer modules where one bad module or sensor can prevent the vehicle from running!

cheaper to replace too if they break...

True I miss the days when you could easily swap the audio head-unit without a dealer re-programming it or needing a special bypass module now a days the dash needs to be cut as the standard din size does not exist in modern vehicles any more.

Thats where I draw the line. Hate carburetors.

Yes fuel injection and AC for me
 
So for co. like Nvidia or Micron, does this situation affects them in a positive way or negative? because I heard from a local IT guy that they can jack up the price of their products
 
LoL modern vehicles are junk bring back vacuum actuated HVAC (with refrigerant-12 Freon-12) and the DIN sized headunit and knobs instead of one giant touchscreen with menu inside of a menu inside yet another submenu!
 
So for co. like Nvidia or Micron, does this situation affects them in a positive way or negative? because I heard from a local IT guy that they can jack up the price of their products
Both? because while they can jack up their prices so can the silicon manufacturers making their products, Samsung, TSMC, all of them have language in their contracts that let them charge more for their production times during shortages and such. So if NVidia and AMD raise their prices they can very well expect TSMC and Samsung to raise them a little to match, or perhaps they raised their prices, and NVidia & AMD have had to raise theirs to keep their margins. The real winners here are the AIB's who have direct sales access they are more than welcome to charge what they feel is necessary as importers, and retailers try as they can to secure stock. Nvidia and AMD only get to declare the MSRP on the FE and direct branded cards, the FTW and Reference cards, anything that falls outside those specifications the AIB's get complete pricing control on and most of them are also posting record numbers right now, and not many of them are shipping anything reference at the moment because there is no incentive for them to do so.
 
Speeduino doesn't quite seem ready yet, but will be nice some day to have open source ECU options.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nobu
like this
That's the great thing about driving an older car. No computer BS. And cheaper to work on.
Depends on how old you're talking. I've got a 1983 Saab 900 that is by no means cheap to work on, because few people in the US know how to work with K-Jetronic/CIS mechanical fuel injection, said fuel injection system's distributor will get clogged up with varnish when it sits for over 20 years with ethanol-laden fuel, and those that do know what they're doing with K-Jet are usually vintage German specialists, more likely Mercedes specifically.

It's infuriating how many parts on it are NLA (this includes the strainer/pickup for the fuel pump on cars like mine that don't have the pre-pump), and how expensive used examples of things like fuel level senders go for on eBay, let alone the cost of rebuilding a K-Jet fuel distributor if you can't find one that isn't gummed up.

By contrast, my Volvo 240 is so much easier to maintain. 1990 with LH-Jetronic 3.1 EFI, so parts are mostly easier to find unless I need something LH3.1 specific like the ECU, MAF sensor or TPS. Parts are still readily available, even interior plastic trim that usually becomes brittle after three decades, with a short drive to Voluparts (which has also saved my bacon on the Saab with having compatible K-Jet parts). The car itself is much easier to wrench on under the hood as well, because it's a standard RWD layout instead of a bizarre longitudinal FWD setup with the engine flipped backwards (accessories face the firewall and the clutch faces the front on classic Saabs).

All in all, whether an older car is cheaper to work on is a matter of which car it is, and I'll gladly take OBD1 or early OBD2 computer BS over K-Jetronic. Heck, I've been offered a Subaru SVX, and while I'm itching to pick up that car one day and hopefully daily it, finding parts for that might even be more difficult than a classic Saab, in that it shares relatively little with the rest of the Subaru parts bin and was a market failure compared to other Japanese coupes of the era.

LoL modern vehicles are junk bring back vacuum actuated HVAC (with refrigerant-12 Freon-12) and the DIN sized headunit and knobs instead of one giant touchscreen with menu inside of a menu inside yet another submenu!
Vacuum-actuated HVAC? No thanks. It may be playing nice on my Volvo 240, but my Jeep XJ Cherokee has these stupid plastic vac lines that get brittle and break after 25 years.

Even after patching them up with some rubber vacuum line, I still have this dumb issue where the heater core valve opens with the temp slider on full cold... and closes when it's full hot! Needless to say, that's backwards, and is probably one of the reasons a lot of pre-facelift XJ owners delete the valve to begin with.

Agreed on physical, tactile controls, though; there is absolutely no reason that HVAC should be hidden behind a touchscreen like so many modern cars.

Speeduino doesn't quite seem ready yet, but will be nice some day to have open source ECU options.
Between Speeduino and rusEFI, I'm definitely looking forward to more open-sourced ECUs leveraging all the cheap, modern microcontrollers we have lying around that's probably orders of magnitude faster than anything they had to work with in the 1980s or 1990s.

Right now, the usual go-to option for aftermarket ECUs is MegaSquirt, and it's heinously expensive. Open-source platforms would not only be more affordable, but obviously documented enough that you can repair them at the component level. All they need is support - more people using them, uploading usable base maps for a variety of engines, learning how to tune with them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: leone
like this
Depends on how old you're talking. I've got a 1983 Saab 900 that is by no means cheap to work on, because few people in the US know how to work with K-Jetronic/CIS mechanical fuel injection, said fuel injection system's distributor will get clogged up with varnish when it sits for over 20 years with ethanol-laden fuel, and those that do know what they're doing with K-Jet are usually vintage German specialists, more likely Mercedes specifically.

Guess, I should have been more specific. Foreign cars, especially older ones are a nightmare to work on, except for British cars like Triumph and MG, Don't even get me started on Mercedes...over engineered shop car.
 
Both? because while they can jack up their prices so can the silicon manufacturers making their products, Samsung, TSMC, all of them have language in their contracts that let them charge more for their production times during shortages and such. So if NVidia and AMD raise their prices they can very well expect TSMC and Samsung to raise them a little to match, or perhaps they raised their prices, and NVidia & AMD have had to raise theirs to keep their margins. The real winners here are the AIB's who have direct sales access they are more than welcome to charge what they feel is necessary as importers, and retailers try as they can to secure stock. Nvidia and AMD only get to declare the MSRP on the FE and direct branded cards, the FTW and Reference cards, anything that falls outside those specifications the AIB's get complete pricing control on and most of them are also posting record numbers right now, and not many of them are shipping anything reference at the moment because there is no incentive for them to do so.
what is AIB
 
So to infer a bit of this chip shortage, is this situation benefit the stock price of chip manufacturers in the next 2 yr., such as Micron or Intel or Nvidia etc.?
 
So to infer a bit of this chip shortage, is this situation benefit the stock price of chip manufacturers in the next 2 yr., such as Micron or Intel or Nvidia etc.?
It's probably priced in right now, although I'm no expert so maybe get someone else's opinion. But if you wanted to buy, now isn't the worst time to buy tech stocks. There's always some risk, of course.
 
NVIDIA, unlike Intel and Micron, cannot manufacture their own chips. So the global semiconductor manufacturing shortage is unlikely to help them, since all they stand to lose is the ability to sell as many chips as can be made. NVIDIA’s purchase of ARM will likely have a much larger impact on their share price.

I also advise you to ignore financial advice on these forums, or at least to carefully consider all information you get. We are not psychics.
 
Guess, I should have been more specific. Foreign cars, especially older ones are a nightmare to work on, except for British cars like Triumph and MG, Don't even get me started on Mercedes...over engineered shop car.
Well I think Volvo is the ONLY exception to this 'rule' my friend had an old brick Volvo 940 it was a beast of a car (just not in the snow due to Rear Wheel Drive) parts are cheap and easy to come by even 26 years latter since the last 940 was made plus a lot of interchange on most parts as the same part was used in many different Volvo models and years as well.
 
Well I think Volvo is the ONLY exception to this 'rule' my friend had an old brick Volvo 940 it was a beast of a car (just not in the snow due to Rear Wheel Drive) parts are cheap and easy to come by even 26 years latter since the last 940 was made plus a lot of interchange on most parts as the same part was used in many different Volvo models and years as well.
Buy a new super-turbo-charged Volvo and get back to me :)
 
Buy a new super-turbo-charged Volvo and get back to me :)

Well the newest one my friend dealt with was a 2005 S40 and the same year had many many different revisions of the supposedly same engine all not compatible with each others parts even the dealer VIN tracker & build sheet could not figure out which part was needed! Also I did say "Older" cars and that Volvo was the exception to the older foreign vehicles being a PITA to get parts for and service in general.
 
It's probably priced in right now, although I'm no expert so maybe get someone else's opinion. But if you wanted to buy, now isn't the worst time to buy tech stocks. There's always some risk, of course.
This is financial advice. If you lose money we can sue.

/s
 
Well the newest one my friend dealt with was a 2005 S40 and the same year had many many different revisions of the supposedly same engine all not compatible with each others parts even the dealer VIN tracker & build sheet could not figure out which part was needed! Also I did say "Older" cars and that Volvo was the exception to the older foreign vehicles being a PITA to get parts for and service in general.
I run into this issue with my crown Vic and the intake manifolds that are aftermarket. Depending on what plant they came from it’s a different part, no matter what the aftermarket company says.
 
NVIDIA, unlike Intel and Micron, cannot manufacture their own chips. So the global semiconductor manufacturing shortage is unlikely to help them, since all they stand to lose is the ability to sell as many chips as can be made. NVIDIA’s purchase of ARM will likely have a much larger impact on their share price.

I also advise you to ignore financial advice on these forums, or at least to carefully consider all information you get. We are not psychics.
"I also advise you to ignore financial advice on these forums" Hey you are giving financial advice here :LOL:
 
Well I think Volvo is the ONLY exception to this 'rule' my friend had an old brick Volvo 940 it was a beast of a car (just not in the snow due to Rear Wheel Drive) parts are cheap and easy to come by even 26 years latter since the last 940 was made plus a lot of interchange on most parts as the same part was used in many different Volvo models and years as well.
RWD Volvos are best Volvos; too bad none have been longitudinal RWD after 1998, when the 960 (and its final year S90/V90 rebadging) ended production. My only gripe is that stock redblocks are rather underpowered at 113 HP and need a cam and a turbocharger to wake up, and the turbo redblock parts tend to disappear from junkyard examples by the time I find them. Even makes me contemplate the cliche LS or 2JZ swaps sometimes, but I don't want to potentially give up my A/C due to clearance reasons.

It's been all transverse FWD since the 850 and its successors, or Haldex AWD, which has a notoriously weak angle gear and isn't something I'd trust over Subaru's AWD system.

As for RWD being bad in the snow, tell that to the Scandinavians!


Well the newest one my friend dealt with was a 2005 S40 and the same year had many many different revisions of the supposedly same engine all not compatible with each others parts even the dealer VIN tracker & build sheet could not figure out which part was needed! Also I did say "Older" cars and that Volvo was the exception to the older foreign vehicles being a PITA to get parts for and service in general.
Aren't the S40s rebadged Mitsubishis? There was a lot of badge engineering going on when Ford bought Volvo in 1998, and some say they would've run the company into the ground like GM did Saab 'til Ford sold Volvo to Geely years back.

At any rate, I'm considerably less fond of the more modern Volvos, though I do like the styling on the modern Geely-era ones. It's basically that you get all the cost and complexity of a German car, but without the fun and mechanical accessibility of a longitudinal RWD drivetrain, or the willingness for anyone to work on them here in the States (again, note the ratio of German auto specialists to Swedish ones).

I'll just hold out for the pure battery electric models when they think they're ready to take on Tesla in that market, I guess.
 
Long read, but gives a good overview of impact of chip shortages across various industries


https://semiengineering.com/chip-shortages-grow-for-mature-nodes/
Now the chip shortage is spreading into other parts of the economy such as Tractors & Agriculture too

PJ Huffstutter (@pjhuffstutter) Tweeted:
Manufacturing meltdowns are hitting farmers, as the semiconductor shortages expand into other components. "It's the perfect storm of Tylenol moments," said @AGCOcorp Greg Toornman. "It's one headache after another." My latest, with @Reuters Mark Weinraub.

https://www.reuters.com/world/the-g...ponents-shortage-roils-us-harvest-2021-10-12/

https://twitter.com/pjhuffstutter/status/1447936387211218944?s=20
 
Them having problems with supply of 8" (200mm) wafers is a bit surprising; that's old tech and independent of the 300mm wafers that the modern processes everyone else is fighting for use.
Raw materials are the same as are the places that make the wafers, would a company want to put materials (which have gone up in price by almost 100%), and time into 200mm wafers when they have a much larger profit margin on 300mm wafers?

If auto manufacturers want to continue using 200mm wafers on a 90nm process because of its inherent reliability then they are going to have to start paying a premium for it, to give the manufacturers an incentive to prioritize them over newer more profitable processes. Auto manufacturers though do not want to pay that premium so they are fighting it and trying to make the wafer producers cave to government and public pressure.
 
Yeah sorry not believing the supply shortage hype. This constraint is manufactured, or more precisely the constraint is something that's easily solvable.
 
Back
Top