Is X570 the last AM4 Chipset?

X570S was a minor refresh of X570. As far as "the last" AM4 chipset, I suspect it would be either B550 or A520, whichever was last.

To answer what I think you were asking, no, I don't think we'll see any more AM4 chipsets.
 
I seriously doubt that we will see any new high-end AM4 chipsets. The Zen3 refresh with 3D cache is still Zen3 so there is really nothing new to support, and it wouldn't make sense to come out with a new high-end chipset this late in the platform's lifecycle anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a new chipset on the lower-end though, even though we have B550 and A520 now. AM4 will live-on longer on the low-end after AM5 comes out.
 
videobruce said:
Stupid question I guess.... :oops:
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it's really not, AMD has done odd things in the past and ran 2 sockets to differentiate 'high end' and 'low end'
IE: FM2, and the entire G34 vs c32 debacle.
like someone else pointed out, AM4 will end up being 'low end' for probably 2 or 3 cycles, at least, before the entire range moves to AM5.
 
Zedicus said:
it's really not, AMD has done odd things in the past and ran 2 sockets to differentiate 'high end' and 'low end'
IE: FM2, and the entire G34 vs c32 debacle.
like someone else pointed out, AM4 will end up being 'low end' for probably 2 or 3 cycles, at least, before the entire range moves to AM5.
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Word on the street is the new APUs are DDR5 only (Rembrandt: zen 3+ with RDNA2), which if it stays the case for the desktop chips means they won't work in AM4; which means low-end would need a new socket, which would probably be AM5. Chip companies do weird stuff, but I can't see why they would put APUs on their new socket, and also release a low-end Zen4 CPU on AM4; just doesn't make any sense. Given that all indications are AMD CPU/APU production is limited by fab capacity, I also don't think they're going to continue making older designs to try to meet the low-end. That said, they did announce a refresh of last year's APUs (Cezanne -> Barcelo: Zen 3 + Vega), so maybe they will continue to make some older designs.
 
Rumors have it that Raptor Lake will also support DDR4. I have seen a comparison of DDR4 vs DDR5, and DDR5 even at 6000MHz was trading blows with DDR4 at 3600MHz CL4. I will stick with my DDR4 for as long as I can, even when I upgrade. I think boards in the range of $300+ with DDR4 will be good enough for me.
 
CyberJunk said:
DDR5 is kinda cost prohibited if you are alread in DDR4
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Every new memory technology is. At some point it will be more common and much cheaper than DDR4 as the latter memory type moves into the legacy space.
 
Dan_D said:
Every new memory technology is. At some point it will be more common and much cheaper than DDR4 as the latter memory type moves into the legacy space.
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We're in unchartered territory now, though. I keep rolling my eyes at people who suggest that this 'will be the same story.' Video cards are still hard to find and overpriced and how long did it take until DDR4 became available - did it take this long (as long as DDR5)? I don't read the 'up-to-date' releases or reports - so I am a bit out of the loop. I read a bit, here and there - but, I am not in the market at the moment but I hope to buy a system eventually.

But, it looks like it will be a long time until you can find a reasonably priced pair of DDR5 sticks.
 
pavel said:
We're in unchartered territory now, though. I keep rolling my eyes at people who suggest that this 'will be the same story.' Video cards are still hard to find and overpriced and how long did it take until DDR4 became available - did it take this long (as long as DDR5)? I don't read the 'up-to-date' releases or reports - so I am a bit out of the loop. I read a bit, here and there - but, I am not in the market at the moment but I hope to buy a system eventually.

But, it looks like it will be a long time until you can find a reasonably priced pair of DDR5 sticks.
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Microcenter now has DDR5 in stock. Several different kits at that. The prices will still be high for awhile, but it literally was the same thing with DDR4. The only difference is that we never had a period of price scalping with it like we do now.
 
Dan_D said:
Every new memory technology is. At some point it will be more common and much cheaper than DDR4 as the latter memory type moves into the legacy space.
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That would have been true if DDR5 didn't do the dumb thing and require onboard voltage regulation. The increased BOM cost and the more complex PCB design to keep the RF blaster of a buck regulator from interfering with the memory chips. A generic PMIC for voltage regulation is $8 to $13 in quantities of 1000, and the capacitors and inductors add another several dollars to the BOM. The cost of these parts does not change like memory does, it will always be a fixed cost on top of whatever the memory chips are.

At the rate the supply chain nonsense is going on, it's going to be years before DDR5 becomes even remotely affordable, and it definitely won't be cheaper than DDR4.
 
GiGaBiTe said:
That would have been true if DDR5 didn't do the dumb thing and require onboard voltage regulation. The increased BOM cost and the more complex PCB design to keep the RF blaster of a buck regulator from interfering with the memory chips. A generic PMIC for voltage regulation is $8 to $13 in quantities of 1000, and the capacitors and inductors add another several dollars to the BOM. The cost of these parts does not change like memory does, it will always be a fixed cost on top of whatever the memory chips are.

At the rate the supply chain nonsense is going on, it's going to be years before DDR5 becomes even remotely affordable, and it definitely won't be cheaper than DDR4.
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Nonsense. The increased BOM cost will be offset at some point when DDR5 production is in full swing with DDR4 moving into the legacy space. At some point DDR4 won't be produced anymore and its price will rise. We are a years away from that happening, but its price will rise at some point as the pendulum swings in favor of DDR5 production. This has literally always happened with every technology and it will happen here. It may take longer, that much I can agree with but I don't think we are years away from affordable DDR5. A couple years or so would be my guess. We may never see DDR5 get as cheap as DDR4 has been on occasion due to the slightly higher cost to make it, but it will get cheap at some point.

Adding $20 over the cost of DDR4 modules doesn't mean DDR5 can't get cheap. It absolutely can. You also assume that these companies are actually paying $8 to $13 for PMIC's. It's likely they are buying in far greater quantities and getting bigger price breaks.
 
Dan_D said:
Nonsense. The increased BOM cost will be offset at some point when DDR5 production is in full swing with DDR4 moving into the legacy space.
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You're making the erroneous assumption that DRAM is linked to the cost of production, and that more production will equate reduced prices; It is not. DRAM is like oil, it is subject to strict pricing controls by the memory industry to keep the price set at whatever they want. And with how DRAM is covered by huge patent portfolios, it's like x86, there's only a small number of players that get smaller as time goes on.

Case and point, every few years we hear about the FTC or some other similar regulatory body investigating and then fining industry players for price fixing. The industry just pays the fine, laughs it off and continues doing it because the fines are sub percentage points of their revenues, it's like another business expense. They then pass it off to the consumer.

https://simmtester.com/News/IndustryArticle/7645
https://www.hbsslaw.com/cases/dram-price-fixing

I could post pages of articles on the number of times the memory industry has fixed prices, but you may as well say its as certain as the grass is green and the sky is blue.

In the DDR3 era, there was actually a long period of time where the cost skyrocketed because of a supposed fire in one plant affecting one manufacturer, but everyone making memory used it as an excuse to raise prices.

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/4gb-ddr3-prices-to-rise-by-double-digit-percentage-in-october.html

tl;dr correlation does not equal causation.
 
Doesn't surprise me. Get a shiney new AM4 rig and already not a year later it's a dead socket :meh:
 
Denpepe said:
While that is true, it's also a complete mess and can be quite the ordeal to get the right bios installed for the right CPU. The idea was great, the execution poor.
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I can't agree. It's pretty hard to write an AGESA component for a CPU that won't exist until months or years in the future. About the only thing I can imagine AMD doing better would have been mandating no-CPU BIOS updates, and that would have significantly raised the floor on motherboard pricing.

and BIOS updating isn't the socket's fault, nor is chipset compatibility.
 
pitingres said:
I can't agree. It's pretty hard to write an AGESA component for a CPU that won't exist until months or years in the future. About the only thing I can imagine AMD doing better would have been mandating no-CPU BIOS updates, and that would have significantly raised the floor on motherboard pricing.

and BIOS updating isn't the socket's fault, nor is chipset compatibility.
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What they should have done for starters was put bios chips on the boards that could hold more then 1 gen of CPU's. The first gen boards were seriously underbuilt to be able to last the time they should have.
 
BTW, is there any advantages in changing to LGA AM5? Besides the pins structure.

Could someone explain why one is better than the other? I've heard that there's no difference.
 
lukeintheo said:
BTW, is there any advantages in changing to LGA AM5? Besides the pins structure.

Could someone explain why one is better than the other? I've heard that there's no difference.
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It’s cheaper to produce the cpu. It may increase mistakes and Rma’s of new amd based boards tho. Also I’d expect the price of the new am5 motherboards to increase due to the complexity of the cpu socket.

As far as actual performance? I’ve never seen any evidence of one being better than the other.
 
jmilcher said:
It’s cheaper to produce the cpu. It may increase mistakes and Rma’s of new amd based boards tho. Also I’d expect the price of the new am5 motherboards to increase due to the complexity of the cpu socket.

As far as actual performance? I’ve never seen any evidence of one being better than the other.
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Thanks for clarifying. I'm actually just hopping for a big leap in performance if that's actually something that they can do today.
 
lukeintheo said:
BTW, is there any advantages in changing to LGA AM5? Besides the pins structure.

Could someone explain why one is better than the other? I've heard that there's no difference.
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My understanding is that LGA gets you more pins for a given area. And who doesn't like more pins? There's some claims on LGA socket design maybe giving more uniform connecting force, which is a benefit for stability, if true.
 
toast0 said:
My understanding is that LGA gets you more pins for a given area. And who doesn't like more pins? There's some claims on LGA socket design maybe giving more uniform connecting force, which is a benefit for stability, if true.
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Interesting. Regarding the motherboard cost increase that would suck on top of this crazy inflation that is already on going.
 
X570S is not a new chipset. It's just MSI and Gigabyte's term for X570 without a chipset fan. With the first round of X570 boards, the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Xtreme was the only one to not have a chipset fan. It's actually misleading and I don't appreciate them using this branding.

Asus has refreshed boards with no chipset fan on X570 and haven't fallen to the "X570S" gimmick. These include boards like the Asus Crosshair VIII Extreme, Crosshair VIII Dark Hero and Asus ProArt X570-Creator. For some reason Newegg calls the Dark Hero X570S but Asus makes no indication of this anywhere on their product page.
 
Dopamin3 said:
X570S is not a new chipset. It's just MSI and Gigabyte's term for X570 without a chipset fan. With the first round of X570 boards, the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Xtreme was the only one to not have a chipset fan. It's actually misleading and I don't appreciate them using this branding.

Asus has refreshed boards with no chipset fan on X570 and haven't fallen to the "X570S" gimmick. These include boards like the Asus Crosshair VIII Extreme, Crosshair VIII Dark Hero and Asus ProArt X570-Creator. For some reason Newegg calls the Dark Hero X570S but Asus makes no indication of this anywhere on their product page.
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Actually, I would rather them differentiate them by labeling them as X570S, so that I know which board does not have a chipset fan. I have used boards with a chipset fan (ASUS Rampage IV Extreme, Sabertooth x79), and I don't like them.
 
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