How bad is this blem?

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sappyse107

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Opened it up to put some Kryonaut on there and found a ding in the heatsink that put a chip in the die. Sent a message to EVGA already to see if I can RMA it, even though I waited 10 months to get it. Only took a week to break the seal cause "im gonna leave it alone".
 

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drklu

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I assume you have used the card and it operates normally ? If temps look good I wouldn't worry about it. You could always lap the heatsink if you really wanted but I would run it personally.
 

sappyse107

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It works within spec so I wasn't expecting anything to be wrong. With a modified fan curve, the thermals and undervolting were working out well enough that water cooling wasn't "for sure". I figured the new paste would help though and it dropped my fans another 100 RPM with the same curve. My issue is warranty, and step up program should I decide to go 3080 in January. Had to get this documented at least. I would sand/lap the stock heatsink if that doesn't void the warranty but the damage is done and its possibly making better contact in there with the ding still in place.
 

sappyse107

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View attachment 406394

i dont see this chip youre worried aboot.
Its just a white spot in the 0 of GA104. The depth isn't something I can get with this phone camera and the ding in the heatsink was even worse to try and focus on. It could very well be no problem, but I know nothing about the make up of a die either. If I knew how much could be removed from the face of the die without concern, id be good to go. That would be something id attempt when the warranty expires:D
 

pendragon1

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Its just a white spot in the 0 of GA104. The depth isn't something I can get with this phone camera and the ding in the heatsink was even worse to try and focus on. It could very well be no problem, but I know nothing about the make up of a die either. If I knew how much could be removed from the face of the die without concern, id be good to go. That would be something id attempt when the warranty expires:D
ah ok i see it now. i wouldnt worry, its just in the "top coat" and TIM will fill it in. technically that would make a cool spot.
id just fix up the heatsink so it doesnt cause more.
 

Armenius

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ah ok i see it now. i wouldnt worry, its just in the "top coat" and TIM will fill it in. technically that would make a cool spot.
id just fix up the heatsink so it doesnt cause more.
I agree that the heatsink definitely needs to be addressed. Regardless of the damage the uneven surface is going to cause suboptimal contact with the GPU.
 

jlbenedict

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I just have to say.. with GPU shortages and high prices.. you guys are ballsy pulling these things apart and repasting.. etc.. lol
I'd never have the guts to do it 🤣
 

Armenius

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I just have to say.. with GPU shortages and high prices.. you guys are ballsy pulling these things apart and repasting.. etc.. lol
I'd never have the guts to do it 🤣
It's just like handling anything else in your PC. My issue with video cards are that the tiny screws are a pain in the ass to work with, and there are often more than 20 of them to deal with. I broke the head off of one tightening it down on my Titan X with hardly any force applied.
 

sappyse107

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EVGA says its all good as is. This one was pretty easy to deal with on tear down. The screws are all the same, and just 2 loose nuts to deal with (omg). I am debating...delaying the inevitable modification of a G12 Kraken to bolt an AIO to it.
 

kamikazi

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EVGA says its all good as is. This one was pretty easy to deal with on tear down. The screws are all the same, and just 2 loose nuts to deal with (omg). I am debating...delaying the inevitable modification of a G12 Kraken to bolt an AIO to it.
It's a shame that the G12 is not compatible with the 3000 series. There are videos out there on doing the mod to make it work. However, you still have the VRMs and memory chips to cool. I wouldn't trust a single 92 mm fan blowing on the board to do it, especially since it doesn't cover the whole PCB. On my 1080Ti, I took care of that problem with cheap aluminum and copper heatsinks. Not sure how effective that would be on a 3060 Ti.
 

Nenu

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I would run my finger over the heatsink to see if it can be felt.
If so, I would not put that heatsink back on until whatever can be felt is removed.
 

travm

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Its just a white spot in the 0 of GA104. The depth isn't something I can get with this phone camera and the ding in the heatsink was even worse to try and focus on. It could very well be no problem, but I know nothing about the make up of a die either. If I knew how much could be removed from the face of the die without concern, id be good to go. That would be something id attempt when the warranty expires:D
technically that is the package, not the die. The die is hiding deep (ish) inside the package, and if you can see the die, its fucked. Sure as shit you should remove that bump from the heat sink though. That will be holding the entire surface off the heat sink slightly off the GPU, might not matter, but would likely cool more effectively "sans bump".
 

c3k

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Your card is destroyed. If you keep using it, it'll short out your mobo, send a current into your cpu, and then back-fry your psu.

Send it all to me. I'll dispose of it properly.

;)

Seriously...like the above guys have said, a little smoothing of the backplate wouldn't hurt. As for that little flaw in the GPU chip, a layer of TIM will more than fix it up.
 

serpretetsky

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sappyse107

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That explains why the spot that has a chip/ding in it is alright:) Thanks for the info, that puts my mind at ease. What grit should I sand the die before I install this AIO? Just kidding, im not a maniac, but I did pull the trigger on this $70 G12 + Cooler. If it works, I might go with a 240 rad but as a test, this is hard to beat.
 

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sappyse107

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Very short lived attempt. Unlike the video I watched where the brackets fit the other way (top and bottom), mine has no such luck. The capacitors are too close to the die to even make them work. I had planned on modifying something to make it fit but now I don't know. The EVGA cooler doesn't even fit the G12 so thanks Amazon for that outstanding recommendation.
 

travm

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That is the die, you are just looking at the back side of it (the other side is where all of the logic is etched)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_chip
https://anysilicon.com/flipchip-package-overview/

The die is mounted to a substrate. This entire complex is usually referred to as a package. For modern CPU's the die is then covered with a heatspreader.
It appears that in common usage die is used to refer to the package as well. I assure you, that is not the back side of a silicon die, it's a composite filler.
Many images of an actual die are here, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_(integrated_circuit)
 

serpretetsky

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I assure you, that is not the back side of a silicon die, it's a composite filler.
Curious. Do you have industry experience? Or a source / link to this? I cant find anything about a composite filler added on.
 
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Very short lived attempt. Unlike the video I watched where the brackets fit the other way (top and bottom), mine has no such luck. The capacitors are too close to the die to even make them work. I had planned on modifying something to make it fit but now I don't know. The EVGA cooler doesn't even fit the G12 so thanks Amazon for that outstanding recommendation.
lol never trust amazon for that kind of info. The compatible coolers are listed on nzxt's website.
 

travm

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Curious. Do you have industry experience? Or a source / link to this? I cant find anything about a composite filler added on.
Its possible that CPU's using IHSs are just silicon stuck to metal. I struggle to believe that the black plastic/composite looking material that has printing on it is not what it looks like. My specific knowledge is more about how smaller chips are packaged, and non-specific, so I could be wrong. But I would need to see actual footage of the process to believe there isnt a coating of significant (measurable with tools) thickness over the die.

Honestly seeing pictures of actual silicon dies, do you think that when you take the HSF off your GPU you're looking directly at the "back" of that die? I do not doubt there is a protective coating... even if i don't have more proof than the pope.
 

serpretetsky

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Don't want to sidetrack this thread too much, this will be my last post on this topic.
I struggle to believe that the black plastic/composite looking material that has printing on it is not what it looks like.
Agreed, the matte/black chips are some sort of resin/plastic/epoxy. Usually low power.
Honestly seeing pictures of actual silicon dies, do you think that when you take the HSF off your GPU you're looking directly at the "back" of that die? I do not doubt there is a protective coating... even if i don't have more proof than the pope.
Don't know. If there is a protective layer it seems just as brittle as the chip underneath. Breaks and chips like glass. Many athlons died back in the day by people who were not careful mounting their heatsinks.

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DaeviousMax

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Ahh the good old days when cpus were direct die cooling….I have a number of those athlon XP’s lying around collecting dust
 
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