GPU Tariff Exemption Expires December 31, Could Spell Higher Graphics Card Prices

erek

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Expect Higher Prices Beyond the General YOY / Jan 1st Services Price Increases especially for GPUs. I don't understand why deflation is considered a bad thing too? I looked it up once

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"Meanwhile, graphics card prices have every reason to increase compared to 2019, even without the tariffs. The development of GPUs made using TSMC's N5 and 4N (5nm-class) fabrication technologies is extremely expensive, and a physical implementation of a GPU (with software) costs north of $500 million. Manufacturing on one of TSMC's N5 production nodes is also costlier (potentially twice as expensive) as making GPUs on TSMC's N7 or Samsung's 8LPP. Production costs are also higher now than they were several years ago due to rising salaries in China and inflation. Finally, even transportation is now more expensive than it used to be in 2019.

It remains to be seen if the 25% duty will indeed be imposed on graphics cards, motherboards, laptops, and other devices. Even if another exemption is granted, we're not going to see new midrange to high-end GPUs for $200~$300 any time soon."



https://www.tomshardware.com/news/g...pire-on-december-31-could-spell-higher-prices

https://www.techpowerup.com/301677/us-might-reimpose-gpu-import-tariffs-in-the-new-year
 
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It was part of the reason why I decided to build a new PC for the first time in 12 years this past summer. Forget Moore's Law, pretty soon it may even become difficult to find new parts to do a build. For this reason, I think that the day is going to come when old used computers that we all take for granted will become extremely valuable.
 
It was part of the reason why I decided to build a new PC for the first time in 12 years this past summer. Forget Moore's Law, pretty soon it may even become difficult to find new parts to do a build. For this reason, I think that the day is going to come when old used computers that we all take for granted will become extremely valuable.
Feels like there was a thread back in 2021 about this very topic.
To quote myself from back then:

Something something dark cyberpunk future. :borg:
The irony in this is that in Cyberpunk Red, set around 2045, has nothing but infinite supply chain issues.

From what Mike Pondsmith was saying, megacorps aren't exactly producing products for consumers at this point in time, only for other megacorps, governments, special entities and projects, etc., and consumers get the leftovers at most.
In that time period, since the average person is completely unable get their hands on virtually anything new, products either need to be innovated by themselves, stolen, or discovered and resold or traded.

In his example, a new smartphone wouldn't be being released, and instead, a smartphone shipment of model XYZ produced from years earlier might just be discovered en masse within an old crate discovered by scrapers.
At that point, they can then be given/sold/dispersed to friends, allies, or the highest bidder.

The current situation with GPUs has turned into damn near the same thing, only instead of being 2045 it is only 2021.
Heck, there was an article from December 29, 2020 about a half-million RTX 30 GPUs being discovered from a lost shipment - you can't make this stuff up.


I know I post a lot of "dark cyberpunk future" jokes and memes on here, but the similarities to that Cyberpunk Red setting, and our own, are becoming eerily similar... :whistle:

The further we go into the dark cyberpunk future, the more this becomes our reality. :borg:
 
Feels like there was a thread back in 2021 about this very topic.
To quote myself from back then:



The further we go into the dark cyberpunk future, the more this becomes our reality. :borg:
I miss the days from 30-40 years ago when predictions of the future were that we would be travelling to other planets in spaceships. There was so much optimism back then that has been almost completely lost in our society today. That said, it is understandable why it has become this way. Things are getting worse each year it's hard not to make predictions of a dark future as it seems pretty likely at this point. Even just doing routine things like making an online purchase has become so much more cumbersome/costly in the last 5 years. It's hard to have confidence that the supply chain won't be anything more than a total dysfunctional heap in a few more years on this path.
 
It was part of the reason why I decided to build a new PC for the first time in 12 years this past summer. Forget Moore's Law, pretty soon it may even become difficult to find new parts to do a build. For this reason, I think that the day is going to come when old used computers that we all take for granted will become extremely valuable.
LOL, no. You can hang on to your used PC parts they'll never be worth that much. Even if shit hits the fan, PC parts won't be at the top of people's grocery lists.
 
LOL, no. You can hang on to your used PC parts they'll never be worth that much. Even if shit hits the fan, PC parts won't be at the top of people's grocery lists.
Depends on what "shit" hits the fan.
Apparently you haven't seen what computer parts from the 1970s-2000s have been going for throughout the last decade, and the price on them is not going down.

I picked up a broadband adapter that was $20 USD for a Gamecube so I could turn into a PowerPC Linux server back in 2013.
Today, that same broadband adapter is going for $130-200 USD.

In 2014 I picked up a X68000 mouse and keyboard, both mint, for $80 USD.
Today, the mouse alone goes for well over $200 USD, easy, if you can find it in junk condition.

None of those parts were what I would consider mission critical.
Older parts, systems, etc., especially enterprise, have a lot of value and I'm seeing more and more of it pop up in production environments where you would think such old equipment would have no use, but again, the price on all of it isn't going down.

Compatibility is a big deal, and GPUs are no different, cryptocurrency apocalypse or not.
 
I'm not worried. As it is new graphic card prices are so high that both AMD and Nvidia partners could just eat the cost. We're still dealing with the failure that is the crypto market and I think used GPU prices haven't hit their bottoms yet. Quick look on Ebay shows that the 6600 XT can be had used for a little over $200, which a steal. A used RTX 3060 can be had for a little over $300. With a looming recession around the corner, good luck increasing prices by 25% because everyone is still making GPU's in China. All they'll be doing is pricing themselves out of market... more so than before.
 
I'm not worried. As it is new graphic card prices are so high that both AMD and Nvidia partners could just eat the cost. We're still dealing with the failure that is the crypto market and I think used GPU prices haven't hit their bottoms yet. Quick look on Ebay shows that the 6600 XT can be had used for a little over $200, which a steal. A used RTX 3060 can be had for a little over $300. With a looming recession around the corner, good luck increasing prices by 25% because everyone is still making GPU's in China. All they'll be doing is pricing themselves out of market... more so than before.
That 25% is also independent of the YOY inflationary increases that have started early already for 2023. Services increasing prices at the beginning of every new year on top of this
 
NVIDIA has been moving video card assembly out of China and into Taiwan in recent years. The majority is still in China, but at least there is movement to get out of China.
 
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Depends on what "shit" hits the fan.
Apparently you haven't seen what computer parts from the 1970s-2000s have been going for throughout the last decade, and the price on them is not going down.
No, I'm not really interested in 1970s computer parts, it has no practical use nowadays, so the collectors can battle it out and spend all their money on it for all I care. The common stuff will never be worth much, only the rare bits, and I never had anything that rare or exotic anyway. The only old hardware I'm holding on to is a Diamond Monster 3D, and it is still worth half of it's new price adjusted for inflation.
I picked up a broadband adapter that was $20 USD for a Gamecube so I could turn into a PowerPC Linux server back in 2013.
Today, that same broadband adapter is going for $130-200 USD.
I assume that is some very limited use rare hardware, yes those are hard to get, exotic stuff or when you have very specific needs can always get expensive. It is not normal to want to buy the same hardware 10 years later.
In 2014 I picked up a X68000 mouse and keyboard, both mint, for $80 USD.
Today, the mouse alone goes for well over $200 USD, easy, if you can find it in junk condition.
I've been using the same mouse for years, not the same one, but the same design, I bought 3 so far, and each was cheaper than the last one and had slightly better features.
None of those parts were what I would consider mission critical.
Older parts, systems, etc., especially enterprise, have a lot of value and I'm seeing more and more of it pop up in production environments where you would think such old equipment would have no use, but again, the price on all of it isn't going down.

Compatibility is a big deal, and GPUs are no different, cryptocurrency apocalypse or not.
I'm not concerned by enterprise, they can afford it, and if they can't it's time to look for other pastures.
 
No, I'm not really interested in 1970s computer parts, it has no practical use nowadays, so the collectors can battle it out and spend all their money on it for all I care. The common stuff will never be worth much, only the rare bits, and I never had anything that rare or exotic anyway. The only old hardware I'm holding on to is a Diamond Monster 3D, and it is still worth half of it's new price adjusted for inflation.
You should look at what common CPUs from the 80s and 90s are going for.

I assume that is some very limited use rare hardware, yes those are hard to get, exotic stuff or when you have very specific needs can always get expensive. It is not normal to want to buy the same hardware 10 years later.
The broadband adapter for the Gamecube is hardly exotic, haha.

I'm not concerned by enterprise, they can afford it, and if they can't it's time to look for other pastures.
It doesn't really matter who can afford what if it is no longer available, hence what we are talking about.
 
I am more worried building bomb bunker, then worried about price of computer prices in 5-10 years old from now, mark my words 2-5 years before world is dead, call me crazy, but the time has come for humanity pay price for our stupidity as human race.
 
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I am more worried building bomb bunker, then worried about price of computer prices in 5-10 years old from now, mark my words 2-5 years before world is dead, call me crazy, but the time has come for humanity pay price for our stupidity as human race.
That bunker isn't going to help you with CBDC, Globalism, transhumanism, and the dark cyberpunk future enveloping the world.
There is far too much control and wealth to be lost if any nation were nuked in this era, so it is less than doubtful it will happen.

People have been saying the world is "going to end" for a long time, and nothing they have predicted for a world-ending-scenario has ever come remotely true.
We don't know when that will truly happen, but it certainly isn't going to be in the next 2-5 years.

The world is experiencing vast paradigm shifts, which we most recently went through in 2013 and 2020, but paradigm shifts aren't the same as the world actually ending.
There is a quote that comes to mind, "Nations may fall, but their rivers and mountains remain."
 
That bunker isn't going to help you with CBDC, Globalism, transhumanism, and the dark cyberpunk future enveloping the world.
There is far too much control and wealth to be lost if any nation were nuked in this era, so it is less than doubtful it will happen.
It wont matter The world is at war, world hasn't caught up to it yet. nor has people yet
 
step outside. its not as bad as they say.

in before green text
I do go outside everyday, i have seen how people are acting, they are losing there damn minds, greed is in full control of everything, from food to computers, I died in bad wreck and was brought back to life, death is gateway it better world and better place after you die.

Sorry for off topic.
 
It wont matter The world is at war, world hasn't caught up to it yet. nor has people yet
The world isn't at war, there is just a lot of money to be traded hands and a lot of power to be gained, which is what the facade is about.
Not getting into this further outside of Soapbox.

I do go outside everyday, i have seen how people are acting, they are losing there damn minds, greed is in full control of everything, from food to computers, I died in bad wreck and was brought back to life, death is gateway it better world and better place after you die.
Greed is just one of the trees in the forest, and the forest is vast.
Thank God for you being alive today, I hope you are doing better and I'm glad we can have this discussion. :)

Agreed with the last part. ✝️

unknown.png


step outside. its not as bad as they say.

in before green text
Too late! :D

23490-1550889984-572574158.jpg
 
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My previous card was a GTX 970, I remember cringing at the cost. $400 CAD but bought it anyway. Just upgraded to a 6700XT and that cost me $600 after tax, sadly it was very much on sale and a good deal these days.

Life goes on.
 
heh, I remember them actually finding it.
Doesn't stop the fact that a lot of this has been going on in the last few years regarding GPU and crypto thefts on a medium to large scale.

GamersNexus and other tech journalists even reported on quite a few of them in their videos from 2020 to this year, and has been mentioning by name 'the dark cyberpunk future we are currently living in' and 'megacorps', far more often than anyone should be comfortable with. :borg:
 
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The world isn't at war, there is just a lot of money to be traded hands and a lot of power to be gained, which is what the facade is about.
Not getting into this further outside of Soapbox.


Greed is just one of the trees in the forest, and the forest is vast.
Thank God for you being alive today, I hope you are doing better and I'm glad we can have this discussion. :)

Agreed with the last part. ✝️

View attachment 531262


Too late! :D

View attachment 531250

Yes i am good! I will have any conversation anyone wants have about everything and anything, knowledge is power
 
I am not too worried. I have zero interest in a 4000/7000 series level cards. My 6900xt is way overkill for anything i do, plus i have a rack of 6600xt and a 3070s just collecting dust since Ethereum switched to POS. i was planning on jumping to raven coin or something, but currently electric cost more then the coins i can mine. Ticks me off, i could really use the space heaters too.
 
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You should look at what common CPUs from the 80s and 90s are going for.


The broadband adapter for the Gamecube is hardly exotic, haha.


It doesn't really matter who can afford what if it is no longer available, hence what we are talking about.
You are talking about hardware that is out of production because there is no longer widespread demand for it. Of course it becomes rare, and rare means more expensive. I don't know how do you believe this would transfer to current hardware.
 
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You are talking about hardware that is out of production because there is no longer widespread demand for it. Of course it becomes rare, and rare means more expensive. I don't know how do you believe this would transfer to current hardware.
Supply and demand.
It isn't just a bunch of retro collectors who are making the prices on such legacy equipment go up.

The same is no different with modern and in-production hardware and equipment.
I get it if something is rare, obscure, only a limited number were released - if that were the case your point would hold true, and in that regard it does.

If current equipment is not available, and yet the jobs/tasks/project/infrastructure has to be completed with a deadline, waiting for supply chains to open may not be an option, so looking to last-gen and/or legacy equipment may be the only option to do so; I've seen this personally happen in enterprise now far more times than I would like.
I have also seen legacy equipment as far back as the 1980s save the day by performing specific tasks that brand new modern equipment and software is incapable of with no workaround by the suppliers or manufactures; functions removed at the hardware-level or features removed from software that haven't existed in decades.

The trend of needing to do so is only increasing, and this is hardly exclusive to computer equipment - I've started seeing this with electrical infrastructure, vehicles, heavy equipment, etc.
This is something very different that hasn't been seen before 2020, and with the way things are going the demand is just going to continue to rise...


I am not too worried. I have zero interest in a 4000/7000 series level cards. My 6900xt is way overkill for anything i do, plus i have a rack of 6600xt and a 3070s just collecting dust since Ethereum switched to POS. i was planning on jumping to raven coin or something, but currently electric cost more then the coins i can mine. Ticks me off, i could really use the space heaters too.
Folding@Home and BOINC projects, Team 33, is calling your name. ;)
 
Red Falcon said:
....Heck, there was an article from December 29, 2020 about a half-million RTX 30 GPUs being discovered from a lost shipment - you can't make this stuff up.

heh, I remember them actually finding it.
Doesn't stop the fact that a lot of this has been going on in the last few years regarding GPU and crypto thefts on a medium to large scale.

GamersNexus and other tech journalists even reported on quite a few of them in their videos from 2020 to this year, and has been mentioning by name 'the dark cyberpunk future we are currently living in' and 'megacorps', far more often than anyone should be comfortable with. :borg:
Article said:
Apparently December 28 in Spain is somewhat akin to April Fools' Day(opens in new tab), in which it is common for false news stories to be posted, usually with a humorous slant.
 
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GoodBoy, I already acknowledged that point in post 22, which you literally quoted, so what is your point?
 
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Doesn't read like an acknowledgement to me...
I literally said:
heh, I remember them actually finding it.
I acknowledged that the original article was fake, so this should make that clear for you.
The rest of what I said in that post still stands.
 
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Supply and demand.
It isn't just a bunch of retro collectors who are making the prices on such legacy equipment go up.
Really? Who else is buying legacy hardware in great volumes? They get destroyed and thrown out all the time so there is less and less available, with the rest going to collectors and maniacs, so the price goes up, simple as. There is no great big conspiracy here, and it will never affect in production hardware. Supply and demand doesn't just mean availability, it means availability at the right price.
The same is no different with modern and in-production hardware and equipment.
I get it if something is rare, obscure, only a limited number were released - if that were the case your point would hold true, and in that regard it does.
As I said they can't raise the price of mainstream hardware indefinitely. With the 4080 they already hit the limit of the market. They are not selling through the supply because there is not enough demand for it at the chosen price point.
If current equipment is not available, and yet the jobs/tasks/project/infrastructure has to be completed with a deadline, waiting for supply chains to open may not be an option, so looking to last-gen and/or legacy equipment may be the only option to do so; I've seen this personally happen in enterprise now far more times than I would like.
That happened during the crypto craze for a very short window. That's not the norm, that is an outside destructive influence to the market driven by sheer lunacy. I said crypto was dangerous, yet nobody wanted to listten to me "oh you are just bitter you didn't get on the bandwagon in time"
I have also seen legacy equipment as far back as the 1980s save the day by performing specific tasks that brand new modern equipment and software is incapable of with no workaround by the suppliers or manufactures; functions removed at the hardware-level or features removed from software that haven't existed in decades.
This type of thing is usually more often an unwillingness of companies to invest in modernizing. I'm using legacy equipment too, not because it is the best, but because the brass doesn't want to spend on something that still does the job. Even if it can break down at any moment, with no way of immediately fixing it. It can also be related to fossils only knowing how to do something with old tools, this is especially rampant in bureaucracy.
 
TSMC stands for Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co.

The tariffs do not apply to products made in Taiwan (MIT).

Taiwan moved much of it's manufacturing out of China, for that reason.

My TMSC produced AMD CPUs say:
  • Diffused in Taiwan
  • Made in Malaysia
We're good, gentleman. Hold off on the buying spree.

Edit: Okay, I get that this applies to GPUs. The PCB may still be manufactured in Foxconn or some other Chinese company and assembled there, so this may still hold true.
 
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TSMC stands for Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co.

The tariffs do not apply to products made in Taiwan (MIT).

Taiwan moved much of it's manufacturing out of China, for that reason.

My TMSC produced AMD CPUs say:
  • Diffused in Taiwan
  • Made in Malaysia
We're good, gentleman. Hold off on the buying spree.

Edit: Okay, I get that this applies to GPUs. The PCB may still be manufactured in Foxconn or some other Chinese company and assembled there, so this may still hold true.
Only a third of NVIDIA's video cards are actually manufactured in Taiwan. The silicon may come out of Taiwan, but the majority of finished products still come out of China.
 
Tons of low end electronics are now being manufactured in Vietnam. Taiwan is getting the higher end stuff. Soon China will be a component marketplace only.
Trading one Communist country for another doesn't sound much like a better deal.
 
Trading one Communist country for another doesn't sound much like a better deal.
Vietnam has been shit on by China ever since the end of the war. I'm Cuban, nobody has less love for the commies than me. That being said, Vietnam isn't China and I don't think would ever have the capacity or resources to become China.
 
Trading one Communist country for another doesn't sound much like a better deal.

While Vietnam is Communist, their foreign policy and relations with most countries is far better than China. They actively seek out relations on good terms with most countries in the world. China is just in it for China.

They also have a lot of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" going on in regards to China bullying them with economic and territorial disputes.

Of course it doesn't excuse their violent past, but at least they're trying to better themselves.
 
If the tariffs get suspended again, Nvidia will probably still raise their prices and claim it's because consumers should have been ready for it anyway.
 
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