Getting the Best Buy on a Power Supply @ [H]

All this proves is that I'm in the wrong business.

<rainman> Yeah, definitely not an excellent supply. Definitely not excellent. </rainman>
 
Did I hear this right? You have destroyed PSUs and test equipment, and you DIDN'T POST PICTURES?!

I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to see the destruction!

Great review, by the way.
 
Did I hear this right? You have destroyed PSUs and test equipment, and you DIDN'T POST PICTURES?!

I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to see the destruction!

Great review, by the way.

The two units torn apart were dead :p

As for the death process itself.....sorry no film was rolling because I did not expect the Dynex to die that fast.

The variac I did open and other than a few burnt spots on the copper windings on the secondary at the leads and some burnt wiring sleeving at the fuse it wasn't much to see. I may post a couple pictures of it tonight if people really want to see.
 
Oh I'd love to see those pics! Esp. after my PSU "poped" on me... I need to see more PSU destructions to make me feel better :p
 
Ok pics from the Variac:

Fuse:
100_5506.jpg


Output side at coils:

100_5504.jpg
 
So basically, the function of these power supplys is to make tons of money for Best Buy, while making the inflated prices for name brands seem more reasonable, thus making more money for Best Buy....

I can't say I'm surprised. Thanks for the good review guys.
 
I am completely shocked at the prices for these power supplies. That´s stuff which should cost no more than 30Euros over here, and that´s including tax.
One power supply I can heartly recommend is the Xilence XQ LinearPower 850W (they are also preparing lower wattage models for this year).
It has an efficiency rating of 90+ and consumes just 1W in standby mode, is silent, VERY cool under load and generally very stable.
The downside is the price, 150Euros including VAT is a lot.

Oh, about the 80+ rating: Don´t give a damn about the webpage and the logo!
You have to get your power supply certified by them to be featured on their list which costs a lot of money. There are many power supplies out there who have an efficiency rating which exceeds 80%, but do not bear the logo, since their companies didn´t want to pay for it.
It´s the same with THX, there are many components which exceed the THX specifications (especially in the speaker sector), but the small manufacturers don´t want (or cannot) pay the hefty premium for featuring that logo on their products.
 
I thought Huntkey would at least make its DX-400WPS deliver 300W of power, but I was wrong.
I thought Best Buy would sell those two units at relatively low prices like $25 and $80, but I was wrong again....

----A poor Chinese hardware fan, who used to believe "Huntkey is good" a couple years ago.
 
Well, Paul, I think you should check the fuse on your Variac again. What causes the Variac to burn was most probably "short-circuited after the PSU blew up".
 
The two units torn apart were dead :p

As for the death process itself.....sorry no film was rolling because I did not expect the Dynex to die that fast.

The variac I did open and other than a few burnt spots on the copper windings on the secondary at the leads and some burnt wiring sleeving at the fuse it wasn't much to see. I may post a couple pictures of it tonight if people really want to see.

Paul, I would like to see the corpse of the Dynex 400W unit.

As a Chinese HW fan I already know that the biggest PSU producer Huntkey is in fact not a good producer, and they always sell PSU with fake power ratings to other countries while say "We are popular in Japan... and countries like that". However it's better for us to confirm that truth from a professional review like yours, and not showing the dead body of the unit seems somehow questionable. I don't care whether a bad comment on a Chinese product looks mean, in fact I don't believe that Huntkey is making good units, but I think it as a better effort to show everything that are necessary to get to the conclusions in the report, and of course the HardOCP readers out there in China will want to see the "certificate of death". Hardware Secrets has blown two Huntkey units and Gabriel had shot nice photos showing a dead unit with its switching BJTs blown, and thus we confirm that "this unit reviewed is indeed bad for a fake power rating and not having a proper Over-Power-Protection".

I cannot make expressions in English correctly, so I'm sorry for anything that causes misunderstanding. What I mean is "I wanna see that dead PSU with my own eyes".
 
I work at BBY, as both GS and computer sales. While I love it as a job, the results of this review are pretty bothersome. I will be printing and linking this to my managers, maybe we can get some of them off the shelf... especially the Dynex.
I will also be linking it to Blueshirt Nation, the BestBuy networking site.

Thanks for the review!!!

Stay anonymous...no use getting fired for a company that may or may not listen.

I've heard of a number of stories of BB employees at various stores told to pitch the RocketFish and Dynex PSUs when other brands were out-of-stock, even if it was known the unit wouldn't meet load specs for the PC it was going into. Having worked in other retail outlets when I was younger, I can believe it, knowing that to some managers, their promotion to store/district/regional manager outweighs everything else, and that sales are the way to achieve it, sometimes at the expense of the customer.

At any rate, when you can get Fortron's entry-level Blue Storm 400w for less than the Dynex, and you know it'll hold up under load, it's a pretty obvious choice.

I work for BestBuy as well.

- on the positive side -
We typically use these power supplies to replace bad ones for customers under manufacturer / service plan warranty. i.e. Gateway ships their quad cores with 300w. I would bet that they are around the same quality as many of the factory default PSU. I honestly haven't seen a history of failure with these power supplies.

OEM power supplies, while not intended to be 400w often, will run stably at the spec they were designed for or the system they were designed for (like your Gateway 300w). It behooves Gateway to make sure their power supplies aren't dropping like flies, for both warranty purposes and customer satisfaction, plus, when a power supply goes, it can take a mainboard with it. In comparison, the Dynex power supply says it is capable of 400w on the box when it isn't even capable of more than half that in real-world testing. That's not even close, and if I was given a Dynex 400w to replace the Gateway PSU for warranty purposes from your store, I wouldn't be happy; I'd want the real thing.
 
I've heard of a number of stories of BB employees at various stores told to pitch the RocketFish and Dynex PSUs when other brands were out-of-stock, even if it was known the unit wouldn't meet load specs for the PC it was going into.

Well.... if there's no other brands in stock, what are they supposed to do? Send them over to Circuit City? ;)

Thing is, Dynex/Rocketfish are ALWAYS in stock. Think about it. You have a minimum order with the OEM of 3000 units PER MODEL. There's only 1000 stores. That's 3 of each unit per store. Add to this a four week lead time on building product and three to four weeks on a container ship and you have to forecast future inventory and sales and start stock-piling no less than two months inventory at the distribution centers.....

In other words, there is probably no end in sight to the supply of BB power supplies. :D
 
What I mean is "I wanna see that dead PSU with my own eyes".

Hop on a plane, get your ass to Atlanta and we will let you touch it even. And of course look at it with your own eyes.

There a plenty of detailed high resolution pictures of the review unit.
 
Well.... if there's no other brands in stock, what are they supposed to do? Send them over to Circuit City? ;)

Thing is, Dynex/Rocketfish are ALWAYS in stock. Think about it. You have a minimum order with the OEM of 3000 units PER MODEL. There's only 1000 stores. That's 3 of each unit per store. Add to this a four week lead time on building product and three to four weeks on a container ship and you have to forecast future inventory and sales and start stock-piling no less than two months inventory at the distribution centers.....

In other words, there is probably no end in sight to the supply of BB power supplies. :D

No; they're supposed to be honest. Being honest (like I was whether my bosses liked it or not when I was in retail) meant telling a customer that what we had probably wasn't capable of meeting their needs. And often, that honesty meant sales; customers would come back to me, simply because I had been up front and honest with them, and they trusted me --unfortunately, the big-box mentality has taken away greatly from that in the past decade.

I worked in retail electronics. I wasn't willing to tell someone a product was "just as good" when it wasn't. I might have asked a customer what they planned to use the power supply for, and told them the Dynex would work (assuming it was for an entry-level PC), but I'd have always been honest about their best choice.
 
Well, Paul, I think you should check the fuse on your Variac again. What causes the Variac to burn was most probably "short-circuited after the PSU blew up".

Unlikely given the unit surged, the Variac arched, and then the fuse popped.

I have blown a number of fuses in that variac while testing units and previously have had 2 others die on me. One was with the Ultra 1600w which simply overdrew the unit and it burned out on the input side. The other was with another primary side failure that did almost the exact same thing but the fuse was still good on that one.

That is why we are ditching the Chinese made variacs and going with a Staco instead for the future. Like the Huntkey's they just aren't up to snuff.
 
Paul, I would like to see the corpse of the Dynex 400W unit.

As a Chinese HW fan I already know that the biggest PSU producer Huntkey is in fact not a good producer, and they always sell PSU with fake power ratings to other countries while say "We are popular in Japan... and countries like that". However it's better for us to confirm that truth from a professional review like yours, and not showing the dead body of the unit seems somehow questionable. I don't care whether a bad comment on a Chinese product looks mean, in fact I don't believe that Huntkey is making good units, but I think it as a better effort to show everything that are necessary to get to the conclusions in the report, and of course the HardOCP readers out there in China will want to see the "certificate of death". Hardware Secrets has blown two Huntkey units and Gabriel had shot nice photos showing a dead unit with its switching BJTs blown, and thus we confirm that "this unit reviewed is indeed bad for a fake power rating and not having a proper Over-Power-Protection".

I cannot make expressions in English correctly, so I'm sorry for anything that causes misunderstanding. What I mean is "I wanna see that dead PSU with my own eyes".

Well as Kyle said the unit in the pictures is dead. It was gutted after it died, not before to avoid introducing any confounding variables. Now the first unit had to be returned at retail so I could get a second sample because I sure as hell wasn't going to be paying another $80 for another unit.

As for testing each component on the unit....I could but that takes a lot more time and I have a lot of backlogged work to do. Since this unit did not have a visible sign of failure I did not spend the time desoldering it because it really doesn't interest the majority of readers.
 
No; they're supposed to be honest. Being honest (like I was whether my bosses liked it or not when I was in retail) meant telling a customer that what we had probably wasn't capable of meeting their needs.

That's why I used the winky. They're supposed to be honest, but really.....
 
That's why I used the winky. They're supposed to be honest, but really.....
It's a tough banacing act... help the customer with the best power supply (i.e. send them elsewhere if you are out of stock of everything except Dynex400w's) and possibly get fired/yelled at/written up... OR, give them one 'that'll do", but not the best/good option...

BUT, I must say, we have had the BFG GS series in store for a while, and a decent supply. I know my system is happy running one.
 
It's a tough banacing act... help the customer with the best power supply (i.e. send them elsewhere if you are out of stock of everything except Dynex400w's) and possibly get fired/yelled at/written up... OR, give them one 'that'll do", but not the best/good option...

No, you should *not* ever be written up or yelled at for not recommending a product because horrendous faults in the product. The key rule is that you 1) be honest and 2) recommend something that best suits the customer's interest. A faulty power supply that does not meet standards and barely performs is not something a customer is interested in.

If you're caught, I'm sure they'll have a talk with you because naturally as a manager or superviser, they want to know what's going on, and why you did/said what you did/said. Simply explain to to them the truth. Simply tell them, reviews show that those power supplies are bad, they under perform, and they are fire hazards. People want reliable products that won't burn their house down. You were being honest and you were trying to keep the customer's best interest in mind when you decided not to recommend the product.

Also, note that there's a right way to not recommend a product and a wrong way.

I went to BB today and told one of our Sales rep not to sell those power supplies. Hope she listens. I'll be telling one of my managers too when I hit work.

BTW, I really appreciate you guys doing regular consumer stuff like this. I've put a couple of these into some computers w/o knowing it. Now I know better and I hope you guys do regular junk like this more often (it doesn't have to be power supplies.)
 
No, you should *not* ever be written up or yelled at for not recommending a product because horrendous faults in the product. The key rule is that you 1) be honest and 2) recommend something that best suits the customer's interest. A faulty power supply that does not meet standards and barely performs is not something a customer is interested in.

If you're caught, I'm sure they'll have a talk with you because naturally as a manager or superviser, they want to know what's going on, and why you did/said what you did/said. Simply explain to to them the truth. Simply tell them, reviews show that those power supplies are bad, they under perform, and they are fire hazards. People want reliable products that won't burn their house down. You were being honest and you were trying to keep the customer's best interest in mind when you decided not to recommend the product.

Also, note that there's a right way to not recommend a product and a wrong way.

I went to BB today and told one of our Sales rep not to sell those power supplies. Hope she listens. I'll be telling one of my managers too when I hit work.

BTW, I really appreciate you guys doing regular consumer stuff like this. I've put a couple of these into some computers w/o knowing it. Now I know better and I hope you guys do regular junk like this more often (it doesn't have to be power supplies.)

Very noble, but ultimately futile. BB is interested in making money through sales. They're on ok store if you know what you're looking for beforehand. From what I've seen in 20 years of shopping there is that most of the employees don't know much about anything they're selling, or care, and the ones that do don't last long.

I figured these power supplies were junk, but I didn't realize just how bad they were. Thanks [H] for the reviews.
 
Very noble, but ultimately futile. BB is interested in making money through sales. They're on ok store if you know what you're looking for beforehand. From what I've seen in 20 years of shopping there is that most of the employees don't know much about anything they're selling, or care, and the ones that do don't last long.

I figured these power supplies were junk, but I didn't realize just how bad they were. Thanks [H] for the reviews.
Yea, it sucks, but welcome to retail. The store is there to make money, and if you send someone out of the store for an item you have in stock.... well, that's not making money. I really like working where I do, as the community around my store is really great. The people who come in are smart enough to know that they don't know anything, but willing to listen.
But that doesn't mean anything in terms of management. ANd don't get me wrong, I will steer people away from these guys as much as possible where appropriate, but I expect to get it for my efforts...

By the way, the response over at the BestBuy social networkng site, BlueSHirt nation has been lackluster....
 
The sales guy was trying to sell me another 27" lcd that was "high def" (his words) when it was a crappy Olevia 1388x766 native res model....

You were right about everything else but this. 720P IS high def and probably supports 1080i as well. The only way you are getting any 1080P signal is with an HD/BluRay disc player or PS3/xbox360. 1080P is known as "Full HD" in even the most optimistic terms so get over saying 1368X768 isn't HD... Olevia's are actually very good for the money as well.

Back fully on topic, as far as PSU's at Best Buy is concerned, get the big name brands or don't buy one at all. No surprise here, really on these results.
 
I've never used those power supplies myself, but I did handle a Dynex 400watt PSU at one point and it looked like junk to me at the time. It seemed light for a 400watt unit.

Generally if a PSU isn't heavy enough to flatten a squirrel its' junk. :D

Yea weight is somthing you normaly will not find in a junk powersupply(it does happen but not that often).

I got on my boss when I started with his company on using junk power supplies and would show them the weight difference and ask them which they thought would preform better.

Anyway what really gets me is the price they charged for these things. When I need a power supply in town I've been hitting office max. They seem to always have antec power supplies on sale. They are not the best but are better then these generic store brands. Good job on the review.
 
Almost forgot. When I dropped by BB, I saw the price on a yellow version of their normal tag. If I recall, they're on *clearance* at 80 bucks.
 
I would only buy Power and Cooling, Silverstone, Enermax even OCZ before those two brands. Stable and clean power are name of game as well as good quality components. Never scimp on the power supply. All internal devices depend on good power supply.
 
Unlikely given the unit surged, the Variac arched, and then the fuse popped.

I have blown a number of fuses in that variac while testing units and previously have had 2 others die on me. One was with the Ultra 1600w which simply overdrew the unit and it burned out on the input side. The other was with another primary side failure that did almost the exact same thing but the fuse was still good on that one.

That is why we are ditching the Chinese made variacs and going with a Staco instead for the future. Like the Huntkey's they just aren't up to snuff.

I AM using a Chinese made variac in PSU tests and I think I should have a MOD on it for safety reasons. Actually the reviewer is not me but a friend of mine. I only give advices.
 
Well as Kyle said the unit in the pictures is dead. It was gutted after it died, not before to avoid introducing any confounding variables. Now the first unit had to be returned at retail so I could get a second sample because I sure as hell wasn't going to be paying another $80 for another unit.

As for testing each component on the unit....I could but that takes a lot more time and I have a lot of backlogged work to do. Since this unit did not have a visible sign of failure I did not spend the time desoldering it because it really doesn't interest the majority of readers.

Well I don't wanna see every component desoldered. Hardware Secrets has got a good evidence showing a blown BJT on a dead PSU, but if your unit died quietly without a sign that's fine.
Can you tell me whether those photos belong to the first dead unit or the second? Are there small pieces blown out? Thank you.
 
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/556/1

For that Rocketfish 700W, Gabe at Hardware Secrets has pubed his review and the result was...
A perfect PASS for Huntkey, under 700W full load in a HOT box, voltages regulation well within 3% limit, no out-spec ripples(although we see large 100Hz pulzations on 12V rails under heavy load), no overheating, the efficiency is stable till 560W of load...

The only problem is the incredible price. I don't think BestBuy really wanna sell it online. They may sell it in chain stores where the salesmen can fraud whatever they like.

This HK650-52PEP Rev:F1 unit is labeled as a 600W unit "&#22810;&#26680;F1“ here in China. Everything but the label is identical, and this unit costs only $100, or maybe $85. I know at a price of $80~100 I should turn to something far better than that, but you just can't say it's bad with a $85 price tag on it.

Again Gabe got me shocked but this time it's not because he celebrated the Independence Day with a Green Star but because that unit not only survived the 700W load but actually had a perfect PASS in HOT box test! We well know that Huntkey is labeling its units at ambient temp of 25 degrees, not 50 degrees, and the codename starting with "HK650" indicates it's 550W -- under room temperature.

As for the secondary side that Gabe discovered, it utilizes Synchronous Rectifiers on 5V and 3.3V outputs, not sure whether Gabe drew the schematic correctly. I only have the schematic of SR on Forward and Flyback designs, no information for half-bridge designs.

Since its basically a half-bridge unit, the controller circuit is most likely the KA7500B or the equivalent TL494, not the TNY-278P which is actually handling the Standby circuit..
 
just to let you know looking at the 2 some thing is funny about the hardware secrets one
like it has better parts
the coils have more windings bigger better caps on the primary side
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=10390
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTIwOTA2NDc0NE9SQWlkS3hnb3BfNV8xNV9sLmpwZw==

i have a feeling the one at HS was cheery picked

For primary caps they use the same Teapo LXK 200V 1000uF 85 degrees.
The numbers on the main transformers are the same, though the font changes.
For the PFC coil, more windings doesn't necessarily mean "better quality", and Huntkey doesn't have to get itself in to trouble of "a inductor not giving rated inductance" due to a little piece of copper saved from the coil.
 
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/556/1

For that Rocketfish 700W, Gabe at Hardware Secrets has pubed his review and the result was...
A perfect PASS for Huntkey, under 700W full load in a HOT box, voltages regulation well within 3% limit, no out-spec ripples(although we see large 100Hz pulzations on 12V rails under heavy load), no overheating, the efficiency is stable till 560W of load...

The only problem is the incredible price. I don't think BestBuy really wanna sell it online. They may sell it in chain stores where the salesmen can fraud whatever they like.

This HK650-52PEP Rev:F1 unit is labeled as a 600W unit "&#22810;&#26680;F1“ here in China. Everything but the label is identical, and this unit costs only $100, or maybe $85. I know at a price of $80~100 I should turn to something far better than that, but you just can't say it's bad with a $85 price tag on it.

Again Gabe got me shocked but this time it's not because he celebrated the Independence Day with a Green Star but because that unit not only survived the 700W load but actually had a perfect PASS in HOT box test! We well know that Huntkey is labeling its units at ambient temp of 25 degrees, not 50 degrees, and the codename starting with "HK650" indicates it's 550W -- under room temperature.

As for the secondary side that Gabe discovered, it utilizes Synchronous Rectifiers on 5V and 3.3V outputs, not sure whether Gabe drew the schematic correctly. I only have the schematic of SR on Forward and Flyback designs, no information for half-bridge designs.

Since its basically a half-bridge unit, the controller circuit is most likely the KA7500B or the equivalent TL494, not the TNY-278P which is actually handling the Standby circuit..

Um yes and my good Rocketfish survived at 120v input and didn't die until I switched to 100v at full load.
 
As a BBY employee and a Business/Computer Supervisor I have never, ever, ever recommended any of these. In fact I pointed out to other managers I trained that these were pieces of junk and not worth the problems which they would inevitably cause. Many were surprised to see me attacking "our brands" so viciously while training around them, but in the case of these things, I have always felt justified.

This review only serves to further validate my existing observations.
 
Um yes and my good Rocketfish survived at 120v input and didn't die until I switched to 100v at full load.
There's a huge difference between a "PASS" with 12V rails delivering 41~50A and a "survival" with 12V not giving anymore than 41A. So I think you two should exchange your examples and do a second review to check out the difference between these two units. The only problem is that Gabe had his iron on that unit after it finished the test, so things may be slightly different given it's soldered twice.

The labels on the main transformer look a bit different, but the part numbers are the same. So I may assume that the two units you tested belong to different revisions, or so.
 
There's a huge difference between a "PASS" with 12V rails delivering 41~50A and a "survival" with 12V not giving anymore than 41A. So I think you two should exchange your examples and do a second review to check out the difference between these two units. The only problem is that Gabe had his iron on that unit after it finished the test, so things may be slightly different given it's soldered twice.

The labels on the main transformer look a bit different, but the part numbers are the same. So I may assume that the two units you tested belong to different revisions, or so.
Just a question... why do you care so much?
 
There's a huge difference between a "PASS" with 12V rails delivering 41~50A and a "survival" with 12V not giving anymore than 41A. So I think you two should exchange your examples and do a second review to check out the difference between these two units. The only problem is that Gabe had his iron on that unit after it finished the test, so things may be slightly different given it's soldered twice.

The labels on the main transformer look a bit different, but the part numbers are the same. So I may assume that the two units you tested belong to different revisions, or so.


I am sure Gabe would find great results with the unit I send him...........
 
Just a question... why do you care so much?

Cliff note:
I'm Chinese and everyone around thinks Huntkey is great.
The design of Rocketfish is interesting IMO.
I'm interested in the first reviews on Huntkey units by professional reviewers like Paul, Gabe, Jonny and Oleg, aka "good boys".
Rocketfish's real output power remains unknown until now.

If you understand what I'm saying you can skip the following explanations.


Ok, the answer is ... For several reasons.

1. I'm Chinese and Huntkey is the largest PSU manufacturer in China. Hunkey's LW-6228 is widely used in OEM PCs like Lenovo and some other brands. I don't like Huntkey but it's everybody's first choice. With $25~30 everyone will buy a Huntkey HK400-55AP "Silent King Diamond" and IMO ... it's not worse than FSP and AcBel's low end units (at the same price tag). Everybody is recommending Huntkey's units, even at 400W stage(HK500-52AP) or ~600W stage (this Rocketfish, or you can call it a Huntkey Titan 650W). I'm responsible to know it better and provide my opinions.

2. I'm not familiar with the Dynex 400W unit or say the "Green Star" design that Huntkey usually sells abroad but no on China market. However I know something about the Titan 650W, which uses both the outdated unefficient half-bridge design and a more fashionable SR on secondary side. I wanna know how this unit is capable of. I don't care the Rocketfish's price in dollars since Huntkey is selling it at only $85~100 in China right now. So my evaluation is not considering the price, but only based on its performance.

3. As the largest manufacturer in China and a manufacturer providing 4 80plus units right now, it is the first chance that Huntkey units are reviewed by professional reviewers like Paul and Gabe. I want to learn more info from their reviews. In other reviews there isn't a chance that readers can know this unit's real performance, so Huntkey can misguide readers.

4. Huntkey has a bad habit rating its units not using the real rated output capacity. As for Rocketfish, BBY says it's 700W, Huntkey names it "Titan 650W" in US and EU, "Multi-core F1 600W" in China, "HK650-52PEP" printed on PCB indicating it's 550W... So does anyone have any idea how much power it can deliver?

Still can't understand? Ok, forget about all of that...
 
I am sure Gabe would find great results with the unit I send him...........

I wish I had that money to buy some $50 Huntkey units that are popular in mainland China and are not selling in other countries. Something like "Multicore DH6 400W", HK500-52AP 400W APFC. And also "Solid Rock 800" HK701-11PEP 600W 80Plus EPS12V(Active Clamp Forward topology)... And mail them to you for a good review on them. Maybe you'll find that HK701-11PEP a decent 600W PSU among $130 ones.
--If I was to have enough money I would send you that.
 
Cliff note:
I'm Chinese and everyone around thinks Huntkey is great.
The design of Rocketfish is interesting IMO.
I'm interested in the first reviews on Huntkey units by professional reviewers like Paul, Gabe, Jonny and Oleg, aka "good boys".
Rocketfish's real output power remains unknown until now.

If you understand what I'm saying you can skip the following explanations.




Still can't understand? Ok, forget about all of that...
I see, thanks. And good luck!
 
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