DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

Quick question.

What's the point of using the Pico-Box-Factory X7-ATX-400 DC-DC powerboard if the highest capacity AC adapter is 330W? Doesn't that mean the board will only output 330W?

Sorry if this is a silly question...
 
dondan said:
My dc-board review shows that all dc-board can handle a 2500k clocks to 4x4,4ghz and a overclocked GTX 670 running Prime95 and 3D Mark simultaneous (380W). A combination of a default i7 4770k and default GTX 780 ti need 340W of power. So you can put the maximum of hardware in my case. Sombody can say:" how is that possible the dell can only provide 330W". This is wrong the dell shuts down after pulling more than 420W
Click to expand...

Dondan, how hot does the external Dell psu get?
 
theoretical you are right but the dell psu provides 440W until it shuts down.

http://www.imsolidstate.com/archives/1256

QUOTE: Load testing the power supply with the signal grounded resulted in a maximum output of 19.5V @ 22.5A before shutting down. It was also nice and quiet. That’s roughly 440 watts. Pretty amazing for a little sealed brick, and 33% more output than rated

This means 4790K + GTX 780 should ne no problem for the normal A4. The problem of the Alienware X51 with the 330W psu is the internal dc Board. This Board has only a 40mm FAN cooling solution. But the A4 use the HD Plex DC-Board. And the DC-Board is in a cooling tunnel of two 92mm FANs. My dc-board test offer that every dc-board at the supported list over 250W could provide 370W with good cooling.

The prototype supports all dc-boards over 250W on the market (Alienware, X7, X3, Hdplex) but the final release will only support the hd-plex one. The reason for this is that every dc-board producer use an other jack-expander (the little board with the plugin for the external psu) this is very complicated for the cutout on the backside. Maybe i sell the Case with the hdplex jack-expander and the consumer can decide with dc-board they want to use. But the final version would never support the x7 because this dc-board use a jack-shield on the pcb and not a external jack-expander for the backside of the case. The prototype solves this problem with a selfmade adapter from Dell Male Plug 7,4x5 to 4pin ATX.

CknSalad said:
Dondan, how hot does the external Dell psu get?
Click to expand...
Hand-hot (i have no heat measurement instrument but i think 40 °C)
 
Last edited:
How fast were the two 92mm fans running? Also, how are the noise levels with the full system running while gaming/benchmarking?
 
I using Speedfan to manage all fans depend on the temperatures. In idle usage(office, watching a movie) you can do office work and the system is ultra quiet (fans @ 700rpm). You have to put your ears very close to the case to listen a very quiet noise. While Gaming or Benchmarking(Prime95/Futuremark) you can hear the system (92mm @ 1600rpms). But if you play games with sound or headset like myself you could not hear the system. But i must say to reduce the heat i increase the fanspeed under load to increase the lifetime of the components. The loudest component is the GTX670. Noctua did a very good job with the NF-A9x14 PWM.
 
dondan said:
theoretical you are right but the dell psu provides 440W until it shuts down.

http://www.imsolidstate.com/archives/1256

QUOTE: Load testing the power supply with the signal grounded resulted in a maximum output of 19.5V @ 22.5A before shutting down. It was also nice and quiet. That’s roughly 440 watts. Pretty amazing for a little sealed brick, and 33% more output than rated

This means 4790K + GTX 780 should ne no problem for the normal A4. The problem of the Alienware X51 with the 330W psu is the internal dc Board. This Board has only a 40mm FAN cooling solution. But the A4 use the HD Plex DC-Board. And the DC-Board is in a cooling tunnel of two 92mm FANs. My dc-board test offer that every dc-board at the supported list over 250W could provide 370W with good cooling.

The prototype supports all dc-boards over 250W on the market (Alienware, X7, X3, Hdplex) but the final release will only support the hd-plex one. The reason for this is that every dc-board producer use an other jack-expander (the little board with the plugin for the external psu) this is very complicated for the cutout on the backside. Maybe i sell the Case with the hdplex jack-expander and the consumer can decide with dc-board they want to use. But the final version would never support the x7 because this dc-board use a jack-shield on the pcb and not a external jack-expander for the backside of the case. The prototype solves this problem with a selfmade adapter from Dell Male Plug 7,4x5 to 4pin ATX.


Hand-hot (i have no heat measurement instrument but i think 40 °C)
Click to expand...

That's amazing! Thanks for the response! :D
 
Quick question, would this build work in the A4? Will power be an issue? Just making sure.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($124.67 @ Amazon)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($139.99 @ Micro Center)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($86.39 @ Amazon)
Storage: Hitachi Travelstar 1TB 2.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($73.98 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 770 2GB Video Card ($347.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A9x14 29.7 CFM 92mm Fan ($17.99 @ Mwave)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A9x14 29.7 CFM 92mm Fan ($17.99 @ Mwave)
Other: Thermolab ITX30 19.8 CFM CPU Cooler ($59.99)
Other: Akasa Slimfan 26.5 CFM 80mm Fan ($9.99) [replacement fan for the cooler]
Other: HDPLEX 250W Hi-Fi DC-ATX Power Supply ($85.00)
Other: Dell DA330PM111 330W AC Adapter ($135.00)
Total: $1418.95
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Could I go a bit higher? Possibly to a 780? Thanks in advance!
 
YES it will work :) the gtx 780 has the same powerconsumption like the gtx 770. So you can use a gtx 780. But you have 2x 2,5 Drives this will not work. You have to change the SSD to the msata Version. And i would use a Noctua for the CPU too with the big Brother of the itx30.
 
Last edited:
Not sure if I understand correct, can you plug in the 330W dell brick in the HDPLEX 250W and it will supply enough for running a system + gtx 780? Or do you need some kind of mod?
 
Uff every side i had to explain it again. The dell 330w is labelet with 330w but can run with maximal 440W. The hdplex can run with good cooling with arround 400w. A system with gtx 780ti and a 4790k needs under heavy load (prime+futuremak) 320-340w. So it will work. My heavy oc system 2500k @4,8ghz and 670gtx @1300 needs 320-350w and runs hours stable with this psu combination.

http://lucca.hardforum.com/rewrite/...256&id=1&match=1&source=none&destination=none
 
Last edited:
dondan said:
YES it will work :) the gtx 780 has the same powerconsumption like the gtx 770. So you can use a gtx 780. But you have 2x 2,5 Drives this will not work. You have to change the SSD to the msata Version. And i would use a Noctua for the CPU too with the big Brother of the itx30.
Click to expand...

Thanks dondan!

Now... the only thing I need now is the case...

Any hints when the Kickstarter will come? :D
 
How much would you pay for it? Maybe i can build you one before kickstarter starts. Where you from?

But you have to know tthe A4 is the half of the M1. The smallest high end gaming case in the world.
 
dondan said:
How much would you pay for it? Maybe i can build you one before kickstarter starts. Where you from?

But you have to know tthe A4 is the half of the M1. The smallest high end gaming case in the world.
Click to expand...

Hm... I don't really know...

Maybe $120? $130? I'm using the Lone Industries L1 as a base (L1 is $90, but only fits a single slot low profile card).

Here's the L1: https://loneindustries.com/products/1

I'm in NJ, USA.

Also, thanks for the offer, but I'll wait for the Kickstarter :p I don't exactly have the funds to spare at the moment (damn college payments :mad: )!
 
dondan said:
Uff every side i had to explain it again. The dell 330w is labelet with 330w but can run with maximal 440W. The hdplex can run with good cooling with arround 400w. A system with gtx 780ti and a 4790k needs under heavy load (prime+futuremak) 320-340w. So it will work. My heavy oc system 2500k @4,8ghz and 670gtx @1300 needs 320-350w and runs hours stable with this psu combination.

http://lucca.hardforum.com/rewrite/...256&id=1&match=1&source=none&destination=none
Click to expand...

Alright thanks for the clarification. I was just asking because the page you're linking to shows a mod of the Dell brick, so I was not sure whether it is necessary or not.
 
dondan said:
How much would you pay for it? Maybe i can build you one before kickstarter starts. Where you from?

But you have to know tthe A4 is the half of the M1. The smallest high end gaming case in the world.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, nearly forgot!

If you have some kind of price point in mind, please PM me! If the price is right, I might pick one up before the Kickstarter (budget permitting)! ;)
 
also interested.

waiting for news on kickstarter.

EDIT: I am located in Australia, does the PSU work with our voltage?
 
Last edited:
Its depent on the external PSU you use. I think the dell psu should support the australia voltage. But the final Case came without internal an external PSU. Dell psu could you buy directly in the dell shop or ebay and the hdpley psu in the hdplex onlineshop.
 
Hello dondan, I am also interested in this case. I love the fact that it is only ~6L while being able to house high end video cards. Nice job!

Any approximate dates on when the kickstarter will be? I assume everything is going along smoothly?

Keep up the great work! :D
 
dondan said:
The big question is how much would you pay for it?
Click to expand...

Well, let's look at it like this. Firstly, how much does it cost you in materials and machine expenses? Then its up to you to put an added value on your work, time and effort.

Personally, considering how this is pretty awesome being so small and aluminum, I'd be willing to put in quite a bit.

I think maybe ~100 euro, maybe more?

On another note, I think you should publicise this more, on other sites like OCN and reddit. People went crazy over the Ncase M1. If you market this well, I think you could get some hefty traction too.
 
I would be willing to pay anywhere from $120-150 for the case. Although cooling and storage options will be limited compared to the Ncase M1, one is paying for practically the smallest high-end PC case so far.

Until there's more small custom high-end desktop GPUs and high-end thin m-itx boards for Asus GR8 or Aliewnare Alpha PC sizes, this will be the smallest PC case for a good while.

Once again, props to you for the hard work you put into this neat project. Like another poster said, spread the word on other enthusiast DIY websites to get the word out. Eventually, technology news outlets like Anandtech, Tom's Hardware, etc will follow suit and post the news of your awesome PC case project. :D
 
Thank you guys for the feedback. If the prototype is final in 2 weeks with the new I/O Backshield then i will offer the idea on some other sides. Then i will contact Lian Li and some other case-manufactures to get some prices. But i think 150$ should be realistic. I published the idea already in some german forums an get great feedback and more than 60000 visits on this threads. One big german hardwareside pcgameshardware publisehd the idea already on the mainside.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Casec...der-Welt-Update-Erste-Messergebnisse-1122318/
 
tetrismaster said:
Nice work! What flexibility is there in CPU cooler? What's the max height?
Click to expand...

Looking at the side-on pictures, it looks like you're going to need a Noctua NH-L9.

I think for one to use a case this small certain trade-offs will be required, like limited overclocking potential. But imo that's fine.
 
Max hight of CPU cooler is 40mm. With the noctua minimal oc is possible. For example the cooler can handle my 2500k @ 4x4Ghz in Prime95 with 74°C CPU temp.
 
Awesome work dondan, I'm interested to see your upcoming design. Will the upcoming design be for the kickstarter? Any sneak peaks?
 
Oh yeah dondan, I forgot to ask, will you be giving paint options for these? Like powder coat or something? Or are they just bare metal
 
@tehshirt: Do you mean with upcoming design the A4+ (Advanced) with the 1U PSU solution and the possibility to mount a 120mm aio water cooling solution in a 6,9L case?

@rawrr: i think black grey and white are possible powder coat colors.
 
No, the regular one.

EDIT: Ahh, thought the comment was aimed at me. Yeah those colors would be great. Now I have to think of a good color scheme :D
 
Last edited:
The A4+ (Advanced) is actually in an early planing state. The mainproblem is the 1U psu. I must contact fsp to get a custom version with custom fan profile and cable connectors (atx, cpu 8pin 2x 6+2pcie & sata) because all default 1U psu' s are made for server usage. This make the A4+ project much more difficult for me because it depends on two producers (psu+case). But if i can resolve this it could give a crowdfounding campaign next year. The cad drawings are 90% final maybe i can offer some pictures in the next days.
 
Last edited:
I wasn't aware of those issues, thanks for explaining. Hopefully you get it all worked out! I guess the regular A4 would be a better bet for me in the near future.
 
@dondan

Really liking this more and more each time I look at this thread.

The build I have in mind is low-mid range gaming/general purpose machine.
M/B: ASUS MAXIMUS-VII-IMPACT
CPU: 4590S
GPU: 750Ti


100-150 ok with me too.

just a few wish list things if these can be considered

- dust filter on vents
- completely (or partially) hexagonal perforated side
- optional mounting points for larger fans 140 to 200 cm?

I guess the above can be offered as the A4(advanced) variant.
 
@harnser: I will check it out for the A4+ :)

@kryptonite:
The final version would get dust filters for the two 92mm fans. All airslots would be change from slotted to perforated. I couldn't do this for the prototype because i pay for every hole. (Sidepanel slotted=15$ vs perforated=90$) But in mass production this has only a low effect on the price. Maybe i can made mounting holes for 120-140mm fan for the side. But a 200mm fan must spin too fast to get enough air directly to the cpu cooler and there are no slim 200mm fans in the market to fit between cpu cooler and case side. I think a completely perforated side wouldn't be look noble/classy enough.
To your build: Why you use the Asus Impact? Very expansive, you don't need the overclocking features and the mosfet shield covers a part of the top airslots. Save 100-120€ with a cheaper Motherboard from Asrock, MSI or Gigabyte and put the money in a bigger gpu for example R9 280x or GTX 760/GTX770 or in some weeks GTX860/GTX870.

@All: This cas is very tiny so that i haven't the possibility to make so much mounting possibility like in the M1, but i try my best to respect and implement your ideas.

Here are three pictures where you can see the size difference between M1 and A4.

1niekf.jpg


2ajdw4.jpg


3dnfs1.jpg
 
Last edited:
Even the M1 is quite big compared to the A4, isn't it? :D

Regarding the two 92mm fans, do they need to be the slim ones from noctua? Or is there space for standard 25mm thick fans?

Noctua make color schemes hard... :p
 
I actually really like separating the case from the PSU because you can put the adapter brick in checked in luggage, the PC itself in carry on, looking at my favorite personal item duffel (http://www.redoxx.com/extra-small-aviator-bag/91011-xs/product) it should fit easily. It's much lighter this way, I guess.

I did carry on the smallest ATX case ever, GTR Tech GT3 SFF, but that needed a 20" rolling suitcase. It was 391 x 108 x 317.5.

And yes, I am completely nuts and known for carrying a 23" monitor onboard.

If I had a wish for this case it would be some mechanism to hold the videocard better. With a flexible riser like that it's only the slot that holds the card? Or is the riser slot end screwed to the chassis? That would be so much better...
 
Last edited:
@chx: Actually only the backside (slot) hold the gpu but this works very well. I shacked the case and the gpu didn't move, but i think the last 30min about it to make two holes for screws, that you can fix the riser at the back-sideplate like you wrote. I think i must build out the flex riser and measure it with my digital caliper. But this will only work if the final case come with an default flex riser cable.

@ rawrr: You can only use 15mm deep 92mm fans. But i think about making screw holes for 80mm fans so that you arn't restricted to Noctua.

UDDATE:
I think i found a solution for the gpu-riser mounting problem. For cards over 210mm there is a litle hole in the backside where you can mount a distance-bolt. The card lay on it so it reduce the mechanic force on the slot.

425un4.jpg


And i add two mounting holes for the riser ;)

510ixm.jpg
 
Last edited:
Dondan, maybe you should make a waiting list for this case, so you can get a general consensus as to how many people are interested.

Then you can time your kickstarter accordingly.
 
This is a great idea i will do such a waiting list in the next weeks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top