Connecting two different sets of powered bookshelf speakers to act as one set of 4 speakers?

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Gatecrasher3000

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So, I have a 2.0 speaker setup (powered vanatoo transparent one) with my gaming PC, and I was considering getting two more powered bookshelf speakers (something less expensive than the vanatoo's) so I can make myself a 4.0 surround system.
However the problem I'm foreseeing is how do I get two seperate speaker systems to act as one 4 speaker system? If my Vanatoos are using USB, and the new bookshelf speakers are using RCA or optical, how do I get Windows to lump them together and act as one set? Would the new powered speakers also need to use a USB input?
Is there a software solution for this, or would I need to ge a new sound card that can accomplish this?

Just wondering if any of you had and input, thanks.
 

Darunion's suggestion is the best​


vanatoo's also have analog inputs, so you could just get a 1/8(3.5mm) jack splitter for use with onboard audio or a discrete DAC.

So you could have 1/8 male to two 1/8 female splitter either going into your onboard headphone out, or the analog out of any discrete DAC. From there you'd have a 1/8 male to 1/8 male patch (however long it needs to be) going to the vanatoos, and 1/8 male to RCA female stereo for the new set of speakers.

The vanatoos have optical in as well, so you could get an optical splitter to have digital going into both speakers.
 
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duronboy said:
The vanatoos have optical in as well, so you could get an optical splitter to have digital going into both speakers.
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True, but if splitting them that would wouldn't the same sound signal be directed to the front and rear speakers at the same time? What I mean is, wouldn't the same audio be produced on the front and rear speakers, losing the surround sound directional audio?
 
You would need a 4 channel sound card or audio receiver to do it. Using two different sources for separate channels wont work.
 
Most smart phones will allow you to pair multiple BT devices at once now, so you could in theory use a newer android/apple to pair two 2.0s.

I skimmed your post obviously. I imagine if you could with a phone you could with windows too, but I'm not sure
 
Gatecrasher3000 said:
True, but if splitting them that would wouldn't the same sound signal be directed to the front and rear speakers at the same time? What I mean is, wouldn't the same audio be produced on the front and rear speakers, losing the surround sound directional audio?
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That's true. And it's a bad idea to have two sources for the same exact signal, anyway.
Darunion said:
You would need a 4 channel sound card or audio receiver to do it. Using two different sources for separate channels wont work.
Click to expand...
This is the way.
 
your sig system already has 5.1(and 2.0, thats it), you could just use two sets of powered speakers with 3.5mm cables. BUT youll be missing the center channel so it will sound funny. a real 4 channel sound card is the only way it will separate the audio into four speakers correctly.
this card with the cmi8738-sx chip is supposed to do 2.0, 4.0, and 5.1
https://www.amazon.ca/CMI8738-Channel-Computer-6-Channel-Surround/dp/B09M3L9ST2
 
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The external device Darunion linked to mentions a 4/6/8 channel mode. Could just be if an external amp is doing the summing.

Could add a center speaker to the mix?
 
duronboy said:
The external device Darunion linked to mentions a 4/6/8 channel mode. Could just be if an external amp is doing the summing.

Could add a center speaker to the mix?
Click to expand...
looks to me like its 2.1, 5.1, 7.1
1661473290051.png


it would have to be powered and youd get 5.0, sorta, but could run a power sub off the back of your vanatoo to make 5.1
 
With an AV amplifier, removing the centre speaker on that will route centre sound to the front left/right speakers and it always works flawlessly.
This will probably be your cheapest and simplest method, providing amplifiers for all the speakers and the option for a subwoofer and more speakers later.

I dont use a centre channel speaker simply because its better! I use high end kit with a really good centre that remains unused.
Sound doesnt come from above or below the TV, it comes from the centre and around it, very natural.
Centre sounds also combine better with left/right sounds.

Mine is a Denon AV amp connected via HDMI (running 6.2 speakers +4 Atmos height) and have done the same with Onkyo, Sony and many other AV amps, they all perform without a centre speaker really well.
Even cheap as chips crappy AV amps work fine.
You can get surround audio to it via optical or HDMI. (Some also accept multichannel analogue input but you need to make sure of that)
Be sure the optical in supports the codec your soundcard uses for surround otherwise you will only get stereo. ie DTS or DD (Dolby Digital) surround encoding on both.

Its worth noting ...
SPDIF (optical or coaxial) for surround uses compression to get all the channels to fit, NO MATTER WHICH system you use! There is no optical input on normal audio systems that can accept multichannel uncompressed.
If you want uncompressed (best quality) you will need to use either multichannel analogue or HDMI.

The downside of HDMI is you need to configure your graphics card with the AV amp as a display (which you probably wont use) to get access to the audio channels, which means your mouse can get lost there when using Windows.
As long as you know where this screen is placed in the gfx card control panel you will know which direction to drag your mouse to get it back on screen.
I place this screen either diagonal top right or left.
 
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Well, the simplest option I see so far is that soundcard pendragon linked to. If it indeed takes the center signal and splits it left and right, and if the left and right fronts get a full-range frequency response instead of bass getting crossed over to a sub output that may not get used.
 
duronboy said:
Well, the simplest option I see so far is that soundcard pendragon linked to. If it indeed takes the center signal and splits it left and right, and if the left and right fronts get a full-range frequency response instead of bass getting crossed over to a sub output that may not get used.
Click to expand...

I found problems using a soundcard without a centre.
Not all audio programs obey the windows setup and centre sound goes missing.
This is why I tried an AV amp which always works great when fed all 3 front channels and letting that route centre to the left/right speakers.

Oh yes, on an AV amp you also get an external volume control that controls all channels volume.
You can set the maximum safe listening level on that so you never blow a speaker by accident or wake your family :D
And all level matching is performed with the AV amps setup. Some can automate this with the provided microphone.
You can then connect anything (not just a PC) to the AV amp and surround sound will work perfectly. No other config necessary.
 
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I wholeheartedly agree windows and games have no business managing audio. I prefer passive speakers and discrete amps and to do any managing of audio devices outside of windows. OP already has a set of active speakers and receivers are relatively huge. They can indeed be had cheaply.
 
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Darunion said:
You would need a 4 channel sound card or audio receiver to do it. Using two different sources for separate channels wont work.
Click to expand...
Most likely leaning twords getting a sound card, and using the front and back 3.5mm aux ports to direct the signal. HOWEVER I would rather have USB sending the signal due to the (from what I have read) better sound quality over 3.5mm. That is why I'm hoping I can find a software solution for this, as I can just plug the speakers into two of my USB ports, configure the system in software, then I'm good to go.

Nenu said:
With an AV amplifier, removing the centre speaker on that will route centre sound to the front left/right speakers and it always works flawlessly.
This will probably be your cheapest and simplest method, providing amplifiers for all the speakers and the option for a subwoofer and more speakers later.
Click to expand...
The problem is my Vanatoo's, that a good speakers, are already powered, and I wouldn't be able to connect an AV receiver due to it.
duronboy said:
I wholeheartedly agree windows and games have no business managing audio. I prefer passive speakers and discrete amps and to do any managing of audio devices outside of windows. OP already has a set of active speakers and receivers are relatively huge. They can indeed be had cheaply.
Click to expand...
Again, because of my already powered Vanatoo's, heading in the AV receiver direction would be spending more money then I need to. I'm sure there is a software solution out there somewhere.
 
Gatecrasher3000 said:
That is what I plan on doing in the future. I will have a .1 one day running off the sub port on my Vanatoo's.
Click to expand...
Remember, the subwoofer output on the speakers is only good if they're receiving a full-range signal. If there's a subwoofer output on whatever device you've plugged your speakers into, that's where you might want to plug the sub.

I would be leery of a software solution.

I'm with you on avoiding 3.5mm stuff out of a PC. Can be pretty noisy.

I think I'd look for a DAC that can output analog and digital simultaneously. Digital to the vanatoos, they'll know to take the front left and right. Then the analog surround channels to the rear speakers.

A device like Darunion linked to could work. But what I don't know about it is if they shut off digital outs if an analog output is plugged into(my motherboard does this), or if the low frequencies have already been filtered out of the front left and right and exclusively sent to the sub out.
 
Gatecrasher3000 said:
The problem is my Vanatoo's, that a good speakers, are already powered, and I wouldn't be able to connect an AV receiver due to it.
Click to expand...
You can.
Treat them exactly the same as speakers with an external amplifier. Thats how I run my front speakers, RCA out from the AVR to my external amp.
ie use low level outputs for the front channels from the AVR.
 
Nenu said:
You can.
Treat them exactly the same as speakers with an external amplifier. Thats how I run my front speakers, RCA out from the AVR to my external amp.
ie use low level outputs for the front channels from the AVR.
Click to expand...
So, your AV receiver has an RCA out for front speakers? And you just connect that RCA connection into the RCA input of your powered speakers?
Because yes this would work.
 
Gatecrasher3000 said:
So, your AV receiver has an RCA out for front speakers? And you just connect that RCA connection into the RCA input of your powered speakers?
Because yes this would work.
Click to expand...
Yep.
I was sure to buy an AV amp with this feature because I intended to use it, input from the AV amp and stereo DAC switched on the external stereo amp.
Putting hifi stereo audio through the AV system sounds real poor "in comparison", no exaggeration.
Its not that audio through the AV system is bad, my stereo DAC sounds simply incredible in ways that arent quick to describe to anyones satisfaction, so much more detail, fantastic miniscule imaging and sound that pops out into the room and much wider than the speakers. It needs to be heard to be believed.
Oh and needs a good amp to not waste its potential.
 
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you can also strip one end of an rca cable and use it in the speaker wire jacks or buy a premade adapter.
 
pendragon1 said:
you can also strip one end of an rca cable and use it in the speaker wire jacks or buy a premade adapter.
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Certainly dont connect speaker out directly to RCA input, it risks harm to the receiving circuit of the amp with very loud sounds and could even set it alight!

I've used adapters converting speaker out to RCA into a subwoofer but under loud explosions etc, they suffered damage and all died eventually.
Managed to kill 6 of them, 3 different mfrs.
ymmv.
Better to have a sub with high level inputs hooked up directly to speaker out if you have no RCA outputs.
 
Nenu said:
Certainly dont connect speaker out directly to RCA input, it risks harm to the receiving circuit of the amp with very loud sounds and could even set it alight!

I've used adapters converting speaker out to RCA into a subwoofer but under loud explosions etc, they suffered damage and all died eventually.
Managed to kill 6 of them, 3 different mfrs.
ymmv.
Better to have a sub with high level inputs hooked up directly to speaker out if you have no RCA outputs.
Click to expand...
its a pos and a neg wire, same shit really and it will not start a fire. its literally all the adapters are, but with a nice end for the jack side. edit: adjust the volume correctly.
my milage is perfect for this.
i didnt say anything about a sub.
 
pendragon1 said:
its a pos and a neg wire, same shit really and it will not start a fire. its literally all the adapters are, but with a nice end for the jack side. edit: adjust the volume correctly.
my milage is perfect for this.
i didnt say anything about a sub.
Click to expand...
It really is not the same!

RCA input = 2V max on most equipment but there is often a little headroom.

Speaker out can hit pretty high volts depending on the power of the amplifier.
For example:

A 50W amp into 8ohms can supply (Power = Vsquared / R)
50 = Vsq/8
Vsq = 50*8 = 400
V = 20V

For a 25W amp that would be
Vsq = 200
V = 14V

Amps get a whole lot more powerful than that and I've not mentioned peak values!
Putting 14 or 20V into a device designed for 2V can be harmful, even dangerous, depending how it fails and the circuit its in.

The sub was explaining how I used speaker out to RCA and a better alternative for that.
 
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