Changing fan speed on R4 freezes computer

[syn3rgyz]

I just moved my build over to a Fractal R4 from a Cooler Master.

One thing I noticed is that whenever I change the fan speed using the front fan controller, my whole computer will freeze and I'll have to restart. Anyone else having similar problems or know a fix?

*edit
I'm also getting problems where my applications aren't unresponsive for a minute or two. Then catches up with all the input I was entering.

 

[1337m0dd3r]

haven't had that problem with mine.

 

[CaptNumbNutz]

Is your fan controller a simple switch that flips between full power (12 volts) and low power (7 volts)? 7 volts is sometimes created by splicing the +12v and +5v lines creating a voltage differential of 7v. A cheap power supply may not be able to handle it.

 

[syn3rgyz]

Is your fan controller a simple switch that flips between full power (12 volts) and low power (7 volts)? 7 volts is sometimes created by splicing the +12v and +5v lines creating a voltage differential of 7v. A cheap power supply may not be able to handle it.

Yes it is that kind, I was suspecting it had something to do with the voltage differential but didn't know how to diagnose it to make sure. I have one of the Antex earthWatts power supply.

Is there anything I can do to make sure that's the problem? Will it be better to fix it by upgrading the PSU or getting a dedicated fan controller?

 

[CaptNumbNutz]

Yes it is that kind, I was suspecting it had something to do with the voltage differential but didn't know how to diagnose it to make sure. I have one of the Antex earthWatts power supply.

Is there anything I can do to make sure that's the problem? Will it be better to fix it by upgrading the PSU or getting a dedicated fan controller?

The diagnosis to make sure the 7v trick or if the switch itself is the problem is to wire a 7v adapter cable yourself. Take a 4pin molex, and a 3 pin fan connector, take the red+ wire from the 3pin connector and connect it to the 12v+ yellow wire on the molex. Then wire the black- from the 3pin connector and wire it to the 5v+ red wire on the molex. Plug that thing in turn on the machine, and see if it works. If it works, then its a bad switch or wiring, if it doesn't then the PSU can't handle the 7v trick.

The fix if you want them controlled is simply using a different fan controller, or you can plug the fans directly into the motherboard and using the motherboards bios to control things.

99 times out of 100, the old 7v trick is pretty harmless. If the PSU has a beefy enough setup and enough load on the 5v rail (e.g. a spinning hard drive), it should work fine. Basically, the higher voltage line 12v will force current down the 5v line. As long as there is something pulling plenty of power out the 5v line elsewhere, that additional electricity has an outlet. But do that on an unloaded 5v line and it ends up causing a short. Considering it is causing your computer to freeze, I suspect the 7v trick is playing havoc with the voltage regulators in the PSU, causing voltage to be out of spec, and the motherboard flips out trying to adjust causing a hard lock. That is a very crude description of what is happening (and only a guess), as I only have basic knowledge on the subject. There are other people here that could tell you exactly what is going on.

Here are a couple extremely old threads on the subject, but good reads nonetheless:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1151998
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=871308

 

[syn3rgyz]

thanks for the information, so if I decide to get a new PSU to fix the problem is there a certain spec or functionality I should be looking for?

 

[77Flip77]

Did you end up getting a fix for this? Did you get a new PSU?

 

[ivanlkk]

I just moved my build over to a Fractal R4 from a Cooler Master.

One thing I noticed is that whenever I change the fan speed using the front fan controller, my whole computer will freeze and I'll have to restart. Anyone else having similar problems or know a fix?

*edit
I'm also getting problems where my applications aren't unresponsive for a minute or two. Then catches up with all the input I was entering.

I have the same Fan Controller issue as you did.
I also use Fractal Design Define R4 case.
Whenever changing fan speed from 12V -> 7V, whole computer hangs.
Did you find out the solution yet?

 

[Arcygenical]

I never use the 7v trick for this reason. Even if it is essentially harmless, it's just not worth it...

A simple 7v voltage regulator would solve ALL of these problems, but manufacturers are so damn cheap these days

 

[M76]

Damn, I never thought a factory product would use this solution. Not because it's cheap, but because it's unsafe, if you have a bad psu, this can fry your whole system, and I don't mean freezing it, but bricking some components.

 

[M76]

I have the same Fan Controller issue as you did.
I also use Fractal Design Define R4 case.
Whenever changing fan speed from 12V -> 7V, whole computer hangs.
Did you find out the solution yet?

I have a solution for you: stop switching it when the computer is on, or better yet, throw the whole thing out the window.

I suspect the problem is caused by the switch, that it has some crosstalk between the two positions. and it creates a momentary short-circuit.

 

[CaptNumbNutz]

Damn, I never thought a factory product would use this solution. Not because it's cheap, but because it's unsafe, if you have a bad psu, this can fry your whole system, and I don't mean freezing it, but bricking some components.

The 7v trick is only unsafe when the manufacturer cheaps out on the PSU and can't put another 50 cents worth of electrical parts in there to prevent the short. If the circuitry is there, what little excess electricity is on the 5 volt line is dissipated by another device pulling 5v further down the line (such as a spinning HDD) or by the PSU itself. People have been using this trick for over a decade now. I remember doing it on an old Pentium 4 system I had back in 2002. I also remember helping a friend set up a 12v/7v switchbus he bought from some website on his old Athlon system around the same time. You could flip the switch all day and no problems.

 

[ivanlkk]

The 7v trick is only unsafe when the manufacturer cheaps out on the PSU and can't put another 50 cents worth of electrical parts in there to prevent the short. If the circuitry is there, what little excess electricity is on the 5 volt line is dissipated by another device pulling 5v further down the line (such as a spinning HDD) or by the PSU itself. People have been using this trick for over a decade now. I remember doing it on an old Pentium 4 system I had back in 2002. I also remember helping a friend set up a 12v/7v switchbus he bought from some website on his old Athlon system around the same time. You could flip the switch all day and no problems.

So is the following conclusions correct?

(1) The fan controller switch has 12V, 7V and 5V settings. If somehow I can completely remove the "7V" by modifying the switch, leaving only a toggle between 12V & 5V, my computer should be safe from hang/freeze?

(2) While I was testing the Fan Controller, I only connected: R4 Case + PSU + Motherboard + CPU + Fan Controller + Fans. I didn't connect any HDD (!) because I want to make sure everything is stable first. The PSU is Antec NeoEco 620 Bronze. So, do you mean if I connect some HDD, the problem would go away!?

Thanks!!

 

[M76]

The 7v trick is only unsafe when the manufacturer cheaps out on the PSU and can't put another 50 cents worth of electrical parts in there to prevent the short. If the circuitry is there, what little excess electricity is on the 5 volt line is dissipated by another device pulling 5v further down the line (such as a spinning HDD) or by the PSU itself. People have been using this trick for over a decade now. I remember doing it on an old Pentium 4 system I had back in 2002. I also remember helping a friend set up a 12v/7v switchbus he bought from some website on his old Athlon system around the same time. You could flip the switch all day and no problems.

That's true. But the short circuit protection in the PSU is a last resort, it shouldn't be used as a regular means to prevent the cheapo switch from frying the system. What if for the 500th time the protection won't work? You'd rather risk serious damage to your hardware than get a proper fan controller for a few bucks?

I used the 7v trick many times myself, but it's cheap for a manufacturer to use it. I'm sure wouldn't buy any product from one who uses it.

 

[CaptNumbNutz]

So is the following conclusions correct?

(1) The fan controller switch has 12V, 7V and 5V settings. If somehow I can completely remove the "7V" by modifying the switch, leaving only a toggle between 12V & 5V, my computer should be safe from hang/freeze?

(2) While I was testing the Fan Controller, I only connected: R4 Case + PSU + Motherboard + CPU + Fan Controller + Fans. I didn't connect any HDD (!) because I want to make sure everything is stable first. The PSU is Antec NeoEco 620 Bronze. So, do you mean if I connect some HDD, the problem would go away!?

Thanks!!

1. Assuming the switch isn't messed up to begin with or you modify it correctly...then yes. To test if the switch is fucked or if the PSU simply can't handle the 7v trick, then do the test I listed above by creating your own 7v adapter.

2. Theoretically, yes. But that is assuming the power supply can handle it in the first place. (see #1 above)

I've already answered these questions already in one form or another in my previous posts in this thread.

That's true. But the short circuit protection in the PSU is a last resort, it shouldn't be used as a regular means to prevent the cheapo switch from frying the system. What if for the 500th time the protection won't work? You'd rather risk serious damage to your hardware than get a proper fan controller for a few bucks?

I used the 7v trick many times myself, but it's cheap for a manufacturer to use it. I'm sure wouldn't buy any product from one who uses it.

I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. Just as the PSU manufacturers can cheap out and not put 50 cents worth of parts to cover a 7v trick, a case manufacturer can also cheap out and not put in a proper switch using 50 cents worth of parts (be it a resistor, potentiometer, or rheostat, however they want to accomplish it).


My advice to anyone dealing with this issue...Don't cheap out and spend $20-30 on a proper fan controller or just not use the switch. $20 is 4 McDonalds hamburger combo meals. Brown bag your lunch for a week and you can afford it. You could even plug in extra 3 or 4 pin fans into the motherboard and have them controlled that way.

 

[mQzz]

sorry to revive such an old thread, but i just got that case today and ive got problems with it too. might it be possible that if i plug the fans directly into the MB that it freezes too? if i assemble everything outside the case it runs well, as soon as i start putting everything into the case, with the fans attached to the board itself it goes tits up.

 

[AnakiMana]

sorry to revive such an old thread, but i just got that case today and ive got problems with it too. might it be possible that if i plug the fans directly into the MB that it freezes too? if i assemble everything outside the case it runs well, as soon as i start putting everything into the case, with the fans attached to the board itself it goes tits up.

I just came across this thread for the same reason. I assembled two identical PCs with Fractal Design Arc Mini R2 cases and used EVGA 430w (100-W1-0430-KR) power supplies. Both system had the issue when switching while powered up. During testing, one tower stopped exhibiting the problem when I changed one of the three fans over to the motherboard header. The other continued to freeze when switching.

I changed both over to a Sentey 725w (XPP725-HS) and the problem was resolved.

BTW, I only had 1 SSD, 1 DVDRW, an i3-4160 CPU, and the 3 case fans that came with the Fractal Design case. No heavy load or anything.

Hope this helps.