Bethesda at it again... (paid mods)

MavericK

MavericK

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Surprised I didn't see any thread or conversation about this - Bethesda announced in their E3 the intention of adding a paid mod system to Skyrim and Fallout 4. I seem to recall they tried this before and it did not turn out well for them...



I think the downvotes say it all.

I don't really have a problem with compensating mod makers for their work (especially with something like Falskaar which was basically a huge expansion pack) but the opportunity for abuse of such a system is just too high.
 
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Sorry I missed this thread.

I'm skeptical. What I see here is essentially "paid mods" for all intents and purposes. I'm hoping for the best as I would like to keep these games alive and I certainly have no problems with modders being paid. It's a hell of a lot of work.
 
Nope.

I personally don't purchase DLC, so I'm sure as fuck not paying for a mod.
 
Bethesda board meeting:
- We know paid mods were recevied with an utter shitstorm, but how can we sell it anyway?
- I know: Let's make the sales pitch extra cringy!
- Good, good, and add a good amount of condescension as well!
- Great, great, great, I want the trailer ready to run by tomorrow!!!!!
 
It sounds like they addressed some of major complaints with the last system so it should be better, but better than awful can still be bad.

According to the article I read they're planning to be more selective as well as directly involved in QA and making sure the content wasn't stolen which is good but it also sounds like a good excuse for Bethesda to keep most of the money like they tried to do last time. I'm not opposed to paying something for a well done mod that adds some gameplay but the mods that meet that criteria are few and far between and I would only consider it if the person(s) creating it are getting the largest cut.
 
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The biggest concern I have about paid mods is that they no longer will be made out of passion but greed.

Instead of people making what they think would be a great thing to have in the game, they'll make things that they think will sell. By bye quality, bye bye niche mods, welcome clickbait mods.
 
M76 said:
The biggest concern I have about paid mods is that they no longer will be made out of passion but greed.

Instead of people making what they think would be a great thing to have in the game, they'll make things that they think will sell. By bye quality, bye bye niche mods, welcome clickbait mods.
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This. And keep in mind copyright laws. That means less mods with named gear (Colt, BMW, you name it), less fan inspired mods (Metal Gear inspired mod), ect. And it will further make mod making more competitive and restrictive:

- A free mod won't mean as much to an employer. They'll be more interested in what can sell the most rather than what is creative or innovative.
- Less people giving out freeware or shareware. A lot of mods are built off of each other. Essentially most of the big mods use parts from other modders that were donated. Imagine if people started charging for scripts, code base, 3D models, ect. It will be much harder to get a large scale mod off the ground.

Overall, it will be a bad thing for the modding community. I say this as someone who was compensated for a low level mod by a game developer. The people who tend to be supportive of this in general aren't modders themselves ironically.
 
I would propose they add a "tip the modder" option, and then just take a % cut of the tip. That would still maintain the nature of modding, allow us to support who we want while not making it a paid service, and allow them to monetize mods.
 
cthulhuiscool said:
I would propose they add a "tip the modder" option, and then just take a % cut of the tip. That would still maintain the nature of modding, allow us to support who we want while not making it a paid service, and allow them to monetize mods.
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This isn't a bad ideal at all, and I'd be more open to such an implementation. Even then, the legal aspects of copyright would still apply to these. And less people would be willing to make something if they know they can't accept donations for it. Though I suppose if you set it up so you donate to just a user and not a particular item, maybe you can get around that legally.
 
I'd pay to some modders for the kind of work they do to make Bethesda games more enjoyable, especially the unofficial patches modders, but a paid modding system is only going to work if they heavily regulate the modding system, which is neither good for the mods or modding.

I wouldn't be surprised if there eventually are mods out there that remove the paid modding system though.

So perhaps it's time to download as many mods as humanly possible?
 
Well, as far as I can tell they're not getting rid of existing mod system, just adding the paid mods as a separate workshop entity.

If they replaced all modding capability with this, hoooo boy the shitstorm...
 
Make awesome expansions like the Seattle mod, yea, I'll buy that. A new skin or outfit? F you! Lol
 
Ebernanut said:
...According to the article I read they're planning to be more selective as well as directly involved in QA and making sure the content wasn't stolen which is good but it also sounds like a good excuse for Bethesda to keep most of the money like they tried to do last time....
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Exactly!
This reeks of a blatant attempt at a cash grab.
You can already make donations and subscribe to Nexus Mods - which IMO is the best mod system around for these products (use Nexus Mod Manager and it will integrate with the web site and allows much better version control, installations, removal and auto-updates to mods).
...I think the plan went something like - "wow, look at the size of the PC mod' community. We've got to cash in on that sh1t ASAP !!!"
....I have no issue compensating mod makers, but this process sounds fishy. And the Mod Management Tools built into Fallout were so crummy, they should have just left it up to the community.
 
This actually sucks for PC since the only way to get the mods is through the in-game mod organizer ("Bethesda.net app")... Which nobody uses. All of the Skyrim mods will be for the Remastered Edition, so anybody running Vanilla can't even use them. EVEN IF you wanted to buy some mods, it's going to be a pain in the ass. People are going to find a way to steal/rip/pirate the mods and put them on Nexus. For consoles, it's a more controlled environment obviously.

As for the paid mods themselves: Bethesda is poaching skilled modders. Anybody who makes quality stuff will apply to Creation Club and then exclusively make paid mods. If I'm skilled enough to get paid to make mods, WHY would I want to make ANY of them free?
 
We can't allow this kind of thing to succeed. If it does, then you can bet that soon every company will be pushing their own proprietary, locked down, paid-mod scheme of one sort of another. Pretty much everything TaintedSquirel said above is correct, this will have a massive impact on the viability of modding as a whole, as well as foisting yet another goddamn infurating "client" (ie Bethesda.net app) as necessary to make use of them. Modding is at its best when it is open and unrestricted. You start poaching the best modders with sponsored/paid stuff, then everyone loses. The modding community for many Bethesda (and other) titles often releases the mods and artwork under permissive licenses that helps to keep the modding scene alive as people bundle and build atop the work of others (with proper references and credit). With this kind of thing (or their previous attempt under Steam) that will pretty much end, because it will mean such permissive licenses from the GPL / MPL to Creative Commons etc... will be incompatible with whatever proprietary requirements to release "officially". At absolute best, this will turn high quality mods into essentially paid expansions for pennies on the dollar, whereas the "free" modding remaining will be relegated to its own ghetto as it were, where modders only spend the time there long enough to get good enough to "go pro".

This cannot be allowed to come to fruition lest we drive the need for control and profit to every aspect of gaming, a hand gripping tighter and tighter and more than willing to strangle fun and artistic viability in the process.
 
It depends, do they take a cut of the profit modders get?
If they do, not good, but if they don't, who cares, modders should be paid.
 
Nebell said:
It depends, do they take a cut of the profit modders get?
If they do, not good, but if they don't, who cares, modders should be paid.
Click to expand...

They should be paid for something they volunteered to do?
 
If Bethesda actually goes through with this again, what gamers should do is demand that games launch from Bethesda bug free and don't require community patches to fix what is wrong. Bwahahahahaha...
 
Excuses I've heard about this so far:
  • It's not paid mods, guys! You're paying for the credits to redeem the mods, not the mods themselves. (mental gymnastics FTL)
  • It's not paid mods because old content can't be submitted for curation. (big WTF here...)
  • It's really DLC because Bethesda is taking idea pitches from creators and then making it in concert.
  • This is a good thing because mods will no longer disable achievements. (when did pay-to-win suddenly become a good thing?)
  • All mods will work together because Bethesda are in charge of QA. (Right... :rolleyes:)
 
I don't mind spending $10 or even $20 on a mod, as long as it's effing sweet.

How many of us spent money on counter-strike when it was just a mod for half-life? Most of us. Sure it was free once, but then they finally realized the profit they were losing out of by not charging for it.

Honestly, some of you guys bitch at even the sky being blue.......wtffff
 
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TaintedSquirrel said:
As for the paid mods themselves: Bethesda is poaching skilled modders. Anybody who makes quality stuff will apply to Creation Club and then exclusively make paid mods. If I'm skilled enough to get paid to make mods, WHY would I want to make ANY of them free?
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Allowing modders to choose their own destiny and make their own decisions about where to share their mods? THE HUMANITY
 
DPI said:
Allowing modders to choose their own destiny and make their own decisions about where to share their mods? THE HUMANITY
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Right, I don't take issue with this idea necessarily, but it's just the way in which it is being sold to us. Don't treat your customer base like morons and you might get better reception.
 
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DPI said:
Allowing modders to choose their own destiny and make their own decisions about where to share their mods? THE HUMANITY
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People are expressing their opinions regarding not only the shitty way they're attempting to brand this (AGAIN), but also the shitty practice in general. This isn't a minority opinion either. Bethesda's getting a ton of shit for it (AGAIN).
 
I definitely wasn't against paid mods as much as many of the folks here were. There are some very valid criticisms, but I also don't have a problem with people getting paid for things they put hard work into. I would be fine with a donation based system, but I also don't really object to paying. I care less about the cost and more about the delivery system. When this popped up on Steam, it was a cluserfuck from the beginning. People were stealing other peoples mods, releasing things that we're broken, misrepresenting a mods content, or just creating garbage. It sucked.

It sounds like Bethesda wants to be a little more hands on here. And that's what it should be. Create an ecosystem where every piece of content is tested by Bethesda. Where the crap is weeded out. Where content creators have to somehow show the work is theirs. Where things have to work. Have a refund system for compatibility issues. If that can be done, I'm on board. I see no reason why people investing their time into making quality content shouldn't have the option of being paid for it. Anyone who expects to others to create them new and exciting content out of the goodness of their heart is being overly entitled. Do not forgot it's optional, as a consumer you have the choice to not support a paid mod if you don't want do. As a content creator, you also have a choice: TES Nexus and Steam Workshop aren't going anywhere. Release your content for free if you want to try and reach a larger audience, get your name out, try and get noticed by a developer, etc. If you'd prefer to just try and make something that people would pay for, that's an option too, potentially at the expense of the benefits of giving your content away free. Either way, there's really no reason that choice shouldn't be available to someone devoting their free time to making quality content.


merlin704 said:
They should be paid for something they volunteered to do?
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Why not? It's not charity. Modding is "volunteer" because there isn't really any other way. And not everyone is anyway. I've seen some modders make a decent buck via things like patreon. There is the potential that this could lead to higher quality mods, you know? Look at some of the more ambition projects, some of the total conversions. They often sit in limbo, never proceed past beta, or come out far after anyone is still interested in the game their modding. Maybe their would be a bit more incentive to bring new people on board or devote more time to a given project if their was the potential to be paid for it. Who knows, maybe someone could gain enough popularity through high quality content to make it a viable source of income.

I'm not saying this would happen, but it's certainly possible. If people can make millions off youtube, I see no reason why high quality, desirable mods can't make some people tangible cash.


Nebell said:
It depends, do they take a cut of the profit modders get?
If they do, not good, but if they don't, who cares, modders should be paid.
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Bethesda will surely get a cut, and again I don't have a problem with this any more than I do with Valve getting 30% of Steam sales. They are are distribution service. There is a cost to their hosting and (hopefully) curating the content. If it becomes anything-goes like it was on Steam, this is more of a problem. But if Beth has a team of paid employees checking content for quality, compatibility, etc. I see no reason why they shouldn't get a slice to cover that expense.
 
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twonunpackmule said:
Is this as bad as charging full price for the VR versions?
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It really should be free, or like a DLC for like $10 or something.
The whole game itself launched at $60 almost 2 years ago, I have no idea why they think the SAME GAME with VR support is $60 now.
 
Sounds like a buncha hippie commies in here, thinking free stuff is somehow better than stuff you pay for, wanting everything to be free. Let good old American capitalism sort out the mod scene, else you're a terrorist. Bernie lost, remember?



















/s
 
cthulhuiscool said:
I would propose they add a "tip the modder" option, and then just take a % cut of the tip. That would still maintain the nature of modding, allow us to support who we want while not making it a paid service, and allow them to monetize mods.
Click to expand...
People just virtually never tip. I know a guy who made one of the most popular sets of add-ons for elder scrolls online with a million downloads and more on his smaller ones. He got a grand total after a year of something like $40.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
It really should be free, or like a DLC for like $10 or something.
The whole game itself launched at $60 almost 2 years ago, I have no idea why they think the SAME GAME with VR support is $60 now.
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Yep. Not to derail the thread, but this is by far the bigger issue for me. I already gave Bethesda my money for FO4. And I fully realize they put money into making this game work in VR, so I don't have an issue with paying for that feature. But like you say, a $10 DLC makes perfect sense. Rebuying a $60 game does not. Skyrim is even more egregious, also costing $60 for a 6 year old game that pretty much everyone on the fucking planet already owns, with many double dipping to get the special edition.

Bethesda makes phenomenal games, but they are getting greedy.
 
Re: Fallout 4 VR. I don't have a problem with them charging for it - it looks like they did put some effort into the motion control actions (reloading weapons, etc.) so it wasn't a trivial amount of work presumably. But a full $60 for the same base game just with VR is asking too much. Half that and I would be in for sure.
 
Viper87227 said:
Why not? It's not charity. Modding is "volunteer" because there isn't really any other way. And not everyone is anyway. I've seen some modders make a decent buck via things like patreon. There is the potential that this could lead to higher quality mods, you know? Look at some of the more ambition projects, some of the total conversions. They often sit in limbo, never proceed past beta, or come out far after anyone is still interested in the game their modding. Maybe their would be a bit more incentive to bring new people on board or devote more time to a given project if their was the potential to be paid for it. Who knows, maybe someone could gain enough popularity through high quality content to make it a viable source of income.
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Modding is very often a clash of egos and can be driven by a pure sense of creativity. You bring money into it and people are going to become a lot more cut throat. You think you're going to work with the guy from Russia who speaks horrid broken English, essentially never signs on when you're online, and hope what you send him 7 hours prior via messager / email will be fully understood? In modding why not, if he delivers he does. If he doesn't, no big deal. Bring money into it? Now that is a pain. He may not understand what stipulations you're placing on his 3D model or scripts. He may say screw it, I don't understand these guys so I'm going to hold this content until I find a Russian team who agrees to my legal terms.

And the purely creative mods may decrease in numbers because people (like AAA companies) will go with what is more likely to sell, and take less risks.
 
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