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Keep in mind the pics are of the prototype so it has the typical prototype flaws. As far as having the IO on the top vs the front, it's really preference. I like the clean front and I've heard from other people who really like it too and I've also heard from people who hate it, there's no making everyone happy
A single dual-GPU card (e.g., GTX 690, Titan Z) is about the only way to have two GPUs in the M1. Two cards is next to impossible; the handful of 2/3 slot sub-mATX boards that fit aren't likely to support SLI. So the Cerberus is definitely more capable in that regard.
Yeah, I may do that. At the moment I'm working on a new design based off the last couple pages of discussion, which I'll show when it's good enough. We'll see from there.
If you don't mind the PSU over the CPU, it's absolutely the most bang-for-buck way to go to save space. That's basically the only way you're going to get 2x240 rads with mATX under 20L. But for a lot of people, it's simply a dealbreaker.
It really isn't, though. It's just about the same size as the Fractal Design Core 1000, which most would consider a compact mATX case. And it already has compromises: limited CPU cooler and GPU height (the latter to about 145mm), and limited drive support.
I left it off, but 1x140mm on top would be straightforward in place of the 2x120mm. 2x140mm might be possible, but it would be very tight and the details of the chassis construction make or break it.
A 240 rad overhanging the motherboard won't work without making the case significantly wider. The rad has to completely clear the motherboard height restriction zone, which is about the same height as the I/O shield. That means supporting an overhanging rad requires about the same space as supporting a rear 120mm fan.
It's really the front-mounted ATX PSU and bottom rad support that drives the height, rather than the top or front rad support. The PSU needs enough room for modular connecters/cables between itself and a long GPU in the first slot, while the bottom rad already only fits with slim fans below SLI/Crossfired GPUs with single slot waterblocks in slots 1 and 3. Cutting the height would make dual 240s infeasible.
That bad? People didn't seem to mind the split front design when I did it in my SG09 re-imagining. So many people have asked for an mATX M1, and yet when you try to make that work in a way that makes sense, no one likes it. Oh well, at least no one can say I didn't try.
For me the indented I/O of the M1 works, because it is at the bottom of the case. It doesn't look good in the middle of the front in my opinion. In addition I don't like the intake vents stopping in the middle. If they were strait up to the top, the PSU could be placed with the fan facing the front and would get fresh air, right?
Right, and the reason it's not like that now is because that's where the ODD sits. I could drop the ODD support and move the front I/O to the top panel, like the Cerberus or the previous concept have it. But putting it at the bottom like the M1 wouldn't work well here since it's a larger case, and therefore more likely to go on the floor, where a bottom I/O would be far from ideal.
Attempt at an M-style mATX:
With slim ODD slot:
385x400x195mm
Five slots
Full size CPU cooler (165mm)
Fits ATX motherboards per this post
2x140mm front fans
1x120mm exhaust
Opinions?
Alright, just going to toss this out there to get some feedback:
Do you feel the same way about the SG09 redesign I did? That got positive reactions at the time. Maybe it's just short-circuiting your expectations, since like you said, it looks like the M1 with an add-on at the bottom? I'm not sure why the upper part looks like a door to you, whereas the M1's front doesn't. And actually, I've heard someone else with the exact same complaint about the M1's front, so.
What I'm saying is that there is nothing on the case that suggests it is a door. On the other hand, the minute you cut a front pannel in two requires, imo, that such cut has a functionality. And that feeling gets even more supported by the fact that you put the IO just at that middle cut. So... why would anybody cut the front pannel of the case without a functionality reason? I know I wouldn't, just as I would only put the IO in the top or bottom, never in the middle.
So it's probably safe to say that some people might like this design then, just as they liked the SG09 redesign.
It's not arbitrary: the bottom section covers the front 120mm fan intake, while the top houses the ODD (and potentially SSDs). The front I/O divides the two, and both covers would be removable, much like they are on the M1. If you need to access the front filter for cleaning, there's no reason to expose the upper drive section, and vice versa.The M1 doesn't look like a door to me because it doesn't look like a door
But the M1's exterior design is dictated largely by the interior design, as well. Do you think the front I/O placement on the M1 was purely an arbitrary, aesthetic decision? No - it's there because that's one of the only places where it would fit. If I had "forgotten about" the M1's interior design, do you think it would be anywhere as good as it is? Of course not. I design holistically - neither aesthetics nor functionality is considered in isolation.
I guess I don't have the same warm feelings about the design of the LRPC as you do, and when the thermal concept failed to perform well, I moved on from it.
Honestly, I'm not sure we can be viable at $300 regardless of how appealing the design might be. But you're right - it will need to be something special to succeed, since there's no way we'll compete on price with cases like the TJ08-E at <$120. It needs to be good enough to justify the premium. I don't quite share your fondness for the TJ08-E btw - it's one of Silverstone's better looking mATX cases, but some of the details kill it for me.
Demand rises and falls, though according to what exactly I'm not sure. There is probably a seasonal aspect to it.
What I would do to fix the LRPC, basically, is to move the GPU over to allow for 2x120mm fans on the side next to it, like the RVZ01 and Node 202 (closer in size to the latter). That does require a considerable restructuring of the chassis, though, and re-figuring out things like drive mounting. I'm not sure how much I can really re-use from the current design, but either way it'll be an undertaking.
It's mainly an interesting design, that it provokes thought ("why is that gap there"). While it won't be the best case in any specific aspect, it seems to still be a very good internal design with a unique and interesting yet timeless outer design.
I don't mind the design. But I still would like the I/O on the top rather than just the middle. I find it harder to find those buttons in less than ideal lighting. If it's on the front top, then it's super easy to find the power button.Alright, just going to toss this out there to get some feedback:
- Dimensions: 360 x 180 x 410mm, 26.6L
- 5 slots
- CPU cooler height: 145mm-ish
- PSU length: 160-180mm
- Fans:
- Front: 120mm
- Bottom: 2x120/140mm
- Top: 2x120mm or 1x140mm
- Rear: 2x92mm
- Rad support:
- Top: 240 x 30mm
- Bottom: 240, trades space with PCI slots
- Front: 120
- Cable management: ~10mm behind the motherboard tray, may include space for SSD mounting
- ODD support: vertically mounted slim slot load drive behind the front panel (as on the M1)
This is very much designed to be able to showcase a build, watercooled or otherwise, with the exterior done in the style of the M1. Major trade offs are the limited CPU cooler height and lack of 3.5" HDD support (which would be either/or with SLI/Crossfire). No renders yet, just want to get an idea of what people think.
Alright, just going to toss this out there to get some feedback:
Just as an example, I can't stand the exposed 3.5" bay on the front. It's just so out of place, like it was thrown in as an afterthought.
No, it doesn't make any sense to do that. GPUs, especially open cooler cards, vent a lot of exhaust laterally, so the drives would be not just blocking the exhaust, but being actively heated by it. Terrible idea. Also that space above the GPU is there partly to allow for taller cards, so it's not necessarily going to just be empty space.
No idea at this point really.
From inside the case, and exhausts through the top.
This needs to have more ground clearance than the M1, which means taller feet. I think round feet over 12mm or so start to look too tall, which is why I went with this design. Also these aren't solid feet, but form from sheet metal, and they provide a small amount of internal space. The AC inlet on the rear actually partly sits in this space.
Unless you're using a using the space next to the GPUs for something, supporting 160mm tall CPU coolers automatically gets you tall GPU support. The support GPU height is about 4mm taller than the supported CPU cooler height.
It's the smallest mATX case that supports full size CPU coolers and GPUs, and has the cooling capability to deal with high end hardware.
Right. Well, it's not a bad thing to support ulta-wide cards if it comes naturally from the design anyway.
Well, if you look back to the previous page, you'll see how the train of discussion that spawned this concept started: an extended M1 was asked about, and the front-mounted PSU that goes with that layout. Of course to do that basically requires changing the airflow to a primarily bottom-top scheme, since the front-mounted PSU blocks a lot of the intake.
Having the PSU like that would block long GPUs in the bottom three slots unless the motherboard is flipped, but otherwise it could work as you suggest.
Not necessarily. Consider the highest power SFX available right now is 600W - even running at 100% utilization they're ~90% efficient, ao maybe 60W of heat added to the case. Not nothing, certainly, but a lot less than a second GPU adds to the case. Ideally, of course you want components' waste heat not to affect eachother. Practically, at least in some scenarios, it's not the end of the world if they do.
On top? Do you have your drives mounted in some non-standard way in the M1? Do you have actual temperatures on the drives? I'd be curious to know what they are.
Alright, I did a few renders just to put this concept on even footing with the rest. It's easy to become blind to your own work when you're absorbed in it, so it helps to get outside opinions. It's fine if people don't like it.
