Anandtech and Gamers Nexus 11700k Reviews

Yeah, was not too long ago when done old tech site did this and it got called out by a ton of other reviewers as being damaging to the industry. LOL.

4min39s in the Reviewception, Ian mentions Anand and his 5 month early Sandybridge coverage.

 
Cache takes up a lot of die space and transistors, and Rocket Lake is already larger than Intel would like. There's a lot of smart people there at Intel making such tradeoffs as it is. AMD is 2 nodes ahead on TSMC's 7nm vs Intel's 14 so they can afford the extra cache (plus their design probably benefits from it more).

Minor gripe but AMD is one node ahead as the general consensus is that intel 10nm should be equal to 7nm (whenever 10nm is actually functional for mass production)
 
Minor gripe but AMD is one node ahead as the general consensus is that intel 10nm should be equal to 7nm (whenever 10nm is actually functional for mass production)

The other problem is that AMD is looking at 5nm for Zen4 which is coming sooner than later.
 
The other problem is that AMD is looking at 5nm for Zen4 which is coming sooner than later.
Apple and Intel already both have products coming this year for TSMC 5nm, TSMC's 5nm capacity is currently 1/4 their capacity at 7nm. TSMC is 3-5 years out from getting 5nm to the current capacity of their 7nm, I know AMD is all about 5nm in 2022, but that will be a shitshow.
 
That's fine I get it. If Intel shareholders are dumb enough to eat it and feel happy, they deserve to loose their money.
Well as long as Intel has OEM contracts to show... it really doesn't matter if its 20% faster or 50% slower. Money talks, performance is subjective. lol

I know its painful.... but the truth is Intel is still going to sell a ton of CPUs. AMD is still going to be #2.

If I held Intel stock I would be far more concerned about Apples ARM chips... and be questioning if Alder Lake is really going to be the chip that keeps x86 in the consumer device game. I would also be far more worried about Amazons server chips then if 11th gen is just a side grade 10th gen.
 
Minor gripe but AMD is one node ahead as the general consensus is that intel 10nm should be equal to 7nm (whenever 10nm is actually functional for mass production)
Was = to on paper... before they had to scale things back to make it work. Don't believe 10 year old Intel hype... that turned out to be hype. No Intel 10nm is not > or even = to 7nm.
Yes Intel was planning to shrink gaps and up transistor counts... and it never freaking worked. Which is why they are where they are. The 10nm chips they have shipped have either been crippled... and more recently scaled down.

Anyway yes its fair to say Intel is at least 2 processes behind... as Zen 3 is on TMSC 7nm+. So even if you discount Intel 10nm completely there still 2 behind.
 
Well as long as Intel has OEM contracts to show... it really doesn't matter if its 20% faster or 50% slower. Money talks, performance is subjective. lol

I know its painful.... but the truth is Intel is still going to sell a ton of CPUs. AMD is still going to be #2.

If I held Intel stock I would be far more concerned about Apples ARM chips... and be questioning if Alder Lake is really going to be the chip that keeps x86 in the consumer device game. I would also be far more worried about Amazons server chips then if 11th gen is just a side grade 10th gen.
The reality is regardless of how good the CPU is in comparison to AMD's current offerings Dell alone will sell more of them than AMD makes processors this year.
 
I've learned to NEVER bet against Pat Gelsinger in this industry- most who have end up losing in the end... but he can't turn it around immediately. Much like VMware, it will take him a couple of years to get the ship started in the right direction. Intel has very deep pockets, a lot of VERY good engineers, and lots of runway - they'll figure it out eventually. AMD should be proud of what they've done, but Gelsinger is one hell of an engineer and a leader.
Perhaps. I mean during the last (long running) Intel stomp of AMD, it seems that Intel was actively working on dual and quad core CPUs (noting that AMD said "quad" long before anyone said and delivered long after Intel delivered one), and so they were ready to "pull the trigger" fairly quickly, though they delay did cost them like 17-20% of the server market or so (which Intel quickly regained).

I means it's not "status quo"... engineers from "here" go to "there", etc. But will be interesting to see for sure.

If I had to say "anything".... it's the idea of carrying the Intel HD/Xe GPU alongside in their processors. You can sort of see Intel wanting to follow (emphasis) AMD by getting rid of the baggage, perhaps to introduced bigger cache (?).

But the idea that you can yank the GPU out of your box and power up a graphical interface is certainly something that Intel has a better handle on. But maybe "that strength" is something they're experimenting with letting go (?).

There is certainly a volume market to consider. But maybe volume has dropped off (?) Maybe companies aren't buying desktops (of relevance) anymore? So, niche vs niche (gamer vs. gamer)... maybe that's the only market (?).
 
Was = to on paper... before they had to scale things back to make it work. Don't believe 10 year old Intel hype... that turned out to be hype. No Intel 10nm is not > or even = to 7nm.
Yes Intel was planning to shrink gaps and up transistor counts... and it never freaking worked. Which is why they are where they are. The 10nm chips they have shipped have either been crippled... and more recently scaled down.

Anyway yes its fair to say Intel is at least 2 processes behind... as Zen 3 is on TMSC 7nm+. So even if you discount Intel 10nm completely there still 2 behind.

thanks for the update!
 
Well, I'm hoping it's not quite as bad as the review makes it out to be but even if it is, I'm fine with it - the 11900k is a nice bump from the 8700k that I'm giving to my kid.
 
I think the worst part of this is I haven't seen a news bite which says something like "Intel's officially announced release date for 11 Series/Rocket lake."

Yet, the rumors say sometime in the next two weeks (I have seen 15th and 30th).

If it's releasing this month, why no official word?
 
Well, I'm hoping it's not quite as bad as the review makes it out to be but even if it is, I'm fine with it - the 11900k is a nice bump from the 8700k that I'm giving to my kid.

Funny, I bought a 10600k to upgrade my kid. :ROFLMAO:
 
You can't bandaid a turd till infinity, they need to fix their manufacturing/node issues first. It was nice while AMD couldn't compete on IPC but now that the tables have turned...ruefully remember the AMD stock I sold at a small loss in 2015 ...:(
 
Never said it was, just how disappointing release this. Literally going backwards.
They’ll be fine. This is just like Bulldozer and AMD. Intel just needs to bring Jim Keller onboard and have him finish re-architecting their new chips and they’ll be fine. Wait, they already had Keller and he left? Welp, they’re fucked.
 
On a happier side of things, the 10nm versions of this architecture being used in the Xeons are already shipping to OEM's and to date over 100K units have been delivered. So they should hit the ground running with them and that should be a much better indicator of how well the architecture really works. I will be very interested though in AMD's upcoming EPYC and hopefully Threadripper announcements on the 15'th.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1653...ble-shipments-to-date-30-customers-100k-units
 
I actually built quite a few Bulldozer systems since they were a good value and had decent graphics. Great HTPC parts.

This isn't Bulldozer, it's Prescott.
That's what some people miss on the Bulldozer hate train. Sure it took a huge backseat to Intel, but at least they were extremely affordable.

These will be potentially priced as if they're 1st rate silicon, lol.
 
I think something missing, so far, in this conversation is that Dr. Su is the CEO of AMD, unlike some predecessors. She has kept the "pedal to the metal" at AMD.
Yeah, she has really focused AMD, which is great for them. I am eagerly awaiting their announcements on the 15'th I need a new server and workstation, so a shiny new EPYC and TR would be a nice have for May.
 
Rocket Lake has been compared to Bulldozer a lot, but I don't think this is the best analogy.

I think it is more akin to Vega64 launch, and Kyle's and Brent's conclusion from back then transfers surprisingly well to the 11700K:
The point is not forgotten on us that at least AMD is once again offering a high-performance video card that can compete with the competition in the $500 range. We do give kudos to AMD for finally providing something competitive to gamers at this price range.
With Rocket Lake, Intel is finally competitive again in the $500 range. It doesn't beat Zen 3 (outside very specific niche scenarios), it doesn't match the higher end parts, it is less power efficient. But you can at least choose Intel again without sacrificing any major performance or features.
 
Rocket Lake has been compared to Bulldozer a lot, but I don't think this is the best analogy.

I think it is more akin to Vega64 launch, and Kyle's and Brent's conclusion from back then transfers surprisingly well to the 11700K:

With Rocket Lake, Intel is finally competitive again in the $500 range. It doesn't beat Zen 3 (outside very specific niche scenarios), it doesn't match the higher end parts, it is less power efficient. But you can at least choose Intel again without sacrificing any major performance or features.
Why not just choose a 10700K and get identical performance for a much, much lower price? The Bulldozer analogy is wrong, but not for the reason you stated.
 
Why not just choose a 10700K and get identical performance for a much, much lower price? The Bulldozer analogy is wrong, but not for the reason you stated.
11700k whips 10700k in multicore scenarios like rendering and encoding. It's an impressive improvement.

And the XE graphics core should bring even better quality quicksync. *Although that's not confirmed, but let me dream. I have a mobo for rocket lake ok ;)

While 10700k is still better at gaming, I wouldn't call it a whooping. However, with the sales right now, it's a good value for performance.
 
11700k whips 10700k in multicore scenarios like rendering and encoding. It's an impressive improvement.

And the XE graphics core should bring even better quality quicksync. *Although that's not confirmed, but let me dream. I have a mobo for rocket lake ok ;)

While 10700k is still better at gaming, I wouldn't call it a whooping. However, with the sales right now, it's a good value for performance.
If you're willing to spend that much to get the 11700k for encoding....why not get a 5800X instead?

Unless of course you already have a mobo for the 11700k, then you're gonna be biased to towards the 11700k. Anyone outside of that is left wondering why, though.
 
If you're willing to spend that much to get the 11700k for encoding....why not get a 5800X instead?

Unless of course you already have a mobo for the 11700k, then you're gonna be biased to towards the 11700k. Anyone outside of that is left wondering why, though.

Or better yet, buy an 11500 if you're into QuickSync. Supposed to have the same Xe as the higher end models unlike the 11400 and should be in the ~$230 range. I haven't seen any Xe benchmarks yet, so it's hard to say what QS is going to look like. If it's not significantly improved, I'll just hang onto my 10700 in my Intel box.
 
Or better yet, buy an 11500 if you're into QuickSync. Supposed to have the same Xe as the higher end models unlike the 11400 and should be in the ~$230 range. I haven't seen any Xe benchmarks yet, so it's hard to say what QS is going to look like. If it's not significantly improved, I'll just hang onto my 10700 in my Intel box.
TBH, I'm not even sure what quicksync is.

Okay, more video encoding. Yeah, I suppose that's a niche use case if it happens to be significantly better than both the 10th gen cpus and the lower end 11th gen. Though it's still a sad day when we're already relegating top end, new gen i7s to niche status hinging on "ifs".

If only it could have had improved performance across the board. Guess we'll have to wait until launch day to get the full details on that.
 

Vega's turned out to be a brilliant development that's contributed hugely to AMD. It's enabled a bunch of APUs and was a genuine success on its own.

Unless this goes somewhere it's not comparable to an AMD development, it's just a rehash of Prescott.

It's important to recognize this because Intel has been making the same decisions for the past 20 years; while on the surface that looks like they're making a lot of good decisions, all they're actually doing is doubling down on a couple of lucky breaks, while making wrong choices the rest of the time.

The difference between Intel now and Intel then is that they don't have a Pentium M that they can switch their product line over to, unless somehow their graphics division becomes the next Core.
 
TBH, I'm not even sure what quicksync is.

Okay, more video encoding. Yeah, I suppose that's a niche use case if it happens to be significantly better than both the 10th gen cpus and the lower end 11th gen. Though it's still a sad day when we're already relegating top end, new gen i7s to niche status hinging on "ifs".

If only it could have had improved performance across the board. Guess we'll have to wait until launch day to get the full details on that.

Well right now, the leaked price of the 11700KF is $5 more than the 5800x. Based on this review AND assuming that this review represents what we'll see with more finalized bioses, drivers, etc., it seems to make little sense to buy a new system around any i7 (and even less with the i9) part without an IGP. You get essentially equal or better performance at a lower power draw by going AMD. IF you want the IGP, you're looking at $484. So essentially $30 for a cheap video card (not unreasonable). But the pricing... You're getting to the point where you have to be a die hard Intel fan to purposely go out and buy Intel this generation at the prices they are asking.

If the 11700 (non-k) at $389 does what the last generation did with turbo boost, MCE, and BCLK trickery to get near 5Ghz all core, that might be the best deal for an 8 core RKL part. At that point, it's at least a $60 cost savings over AMD.

Also, below $300, AMD has nothing this generation (yet). So the 6C/12T variants might very well be good buys in that space, especially closer to the $200 mark. Also the previous 10th generation might end up being the biggest competitor until the supply dries up. If I had to buy an Intel CPU right now, I'd get the i9-10850k on sale.

Sad, we're talking about Intel the way we talked about AMD being the budget alternative. Then again, this is based on the leaked pricing I saw here.
 
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Hell, only reason I'm REMOTELY considering one is that the IGP means a mini-itx system can use it's PCIE slot for something else - like a 10G card (and thunderbolt is a plus). AMD - you have to stick a GPU in that slot, since the APUs haven't been updated for consumer since Zen+.
 
If you're willing to spend that much to get the 11700k for encoding....why not get a 5800X instead?

Unless of course you already have a mobo for the 11700k, then you're gonna be biased to towards the 11700k. Anyone outside of that is left wondering why, though.
I'm just saying the boost to multicore is pretty impressive and makes it a legit option for those targeting 8 or less cores. I don't expect someone with a relevant AMD mobo to jump over to Rocket Lake instead of Zen3. However, anyone on older platforms, I think Rocket Lake is actually a real choice.

Or better yet, buy an 11500 if you're into QuickSync. Supposed to have the same Xe as the higher end models unlike the 11400 and should be in the ~$230 range. I haven't seen any Xe benchmarks yet, so it's hard to say what QS is going to look like. If it's not significantly improved, I'll just hang onto my 10700 in my Intel box.
Quicksync is great and has a lot of utility. I hope it is improved.

And it has utility beyond a low power system for encoding/transcoding. Streaming gameplay on Twitch is huge and quicksync is a legit option for that. So it still makes sense to have a high end CPU for gaming---which also includes Quicksync. Especially if you have an AMD video card. Because AMD's encoding quality is awful. If XE improves, they could end up as good or better than NVENC. And I would like to see that. The ultimate point being that quality GPU encoding allows you to stream good looking footage to Twitch, without hammering your CPU for the encoding. So, your stream is more stable and your gameplay is more stable.

TBH, I'm not even sure what quicksync is.

Okay, more video encoding. Yeah, I suppose that's a niche use case if it happens to be significantly better than both the 10th gen cpus and the lower end 11th gen. Though it's still a sad day when we're already relegating top end, new gen i7s to niche status hinging on "ifs".

If only it could have had improved performance across the board. Guess we'll have to wait until launch day to get the full details on that.
Quicksync is hardly niche. Many people use the encoders for streaming, encoding or transcoding video files. It also handles decoding, so you don't have to run that straight on your CPU. Intel's XE ads AV1 decode. Since Navi 2 and Ampere GPUs are really tough to get: XE is another avenue to get AV1 Decode.
 
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Almost anything handles hardware decoding now - unless you're building SFF with just iGPU, decoding is easy. Encoding is hard - and yes, quicksync rocks there (AMD has a good H.265 encoder, but their 264 one blows, while NVENC is the opposite - great at 264, lousy at 265 - at least it was, haven't checked recently) and is big for streaming and the like. All depends on what you want to accomplish. Rocket Lake isn't bad on its own - but compared to the competition, it has limited compelling features, unless you already have Z490 or need intel for some reason.
 
I think something missing, so far, in this conversation is that Dr. Su is the CEO of AMD, unlike some predecessors. She has kept the "pedal to the metal" at AMD.
Also lets be clear. Admittedly it required refinement, Jim Keller help them develop the Zen core which has been their saving grace. Without Zen, AMD would be in serious trouble.
 
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