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if it perform like a 6700xt (they are 12% above the 6650xt on techpowerup), you can buy an AsRock right now for $350 with a +10 off promo code down at $340 or a powercolor with a free game.
This isn't that surprising. AMD's problem is that they have been following nVidia's pricing which also makes ZERO sense and let's be honest here the reviewers aren't really hitting nVidia anywhere near as hard as they should. Putting out reviews where you think everyone has RT, DLSS 3.0, and boat loads of money is just ridiculous. AMD pricing cards $100 or even $200 below when nVidia is overcharging by $300 or $400 is dumb. AMD's top stack should have been $800. AMD would have sold out across the board and even could have launched other cards in the series far more easily even with the excess inventory because people would have gobbled up RDNA2 has RDNA3 became more scarce.
They are AMD is pouring that silicon into enterprise where they are estimating another 7-10% gain, so they did put on those big boy pants and decided they had better options.
On what universe is that even remotely possible? AMD literally lost market share to Intel of all people.
This isn't about limited manufacturing as there's plenty of options for AMD to make new silicon. The problem is as old as capitalism, and that's to make sure prices go up and never down. AMD tried many times to gain market share, and they failed so many times. AMD releases the R9 290 with better performance than a GTX 780 Ti at a much lower price, with 8GB of VRAM. Then Nvidia releases the GTX 980 and 970, which beat the 290's and 390's. AMD had an ace and worked on HBM to release the R9 Fury X. Nvidia releases the GTX 980 Ti and beats it. AMD releases the Vega 56 and Vega 64 which does beat the GTX 1070, but not really the 1080. Nvidia releases the 1070 Ti and 1080 Ti to beat both Vega cards. Funny thing the Vega 64 today is faster than the 1080 Ti, but nobody cares because this graphics card was released ages ago. AMD did release the RX 5700 XT but had to embarrassingly cut prices just before Nvidia release their RTX 2060 and 2070 Super cards. AMD must have spent a lot of money, only to watch as Nvidia would reach into their enterprise hardware and just relabel it as a **80 Ti. So it makes sense to stay in Nvidia's shadow and nibble at the crumbs than to put down serious amounts of money that could be lost to a Ti model or now a **90 Ti model. AMD doesn't really need the discrete graphics card market, as they bought Radeon graphics because they had no onboard graphics to sell to laptop and desktop manufacturers for their CPU's. The market will not buy AMD's low or mid tier GPU's if they aren't the fastest, because that's how people's brains work. Being the fastest is important enough that Nvidia had to invent Ti's and **90's to always have an even faster graphics card, just in case AMD releases something faster.
Yeah, this seems like an important thing to keep in mind when comparing NV and AMD.
The Intel A770 with a die size of 406 mm² and 16GB of GDDR6 is going for $400. It's also built on TSMC's 6nm, much like AMD's RX 6000 cards. The 6700 XT is 335 mm² and has 12GB of VRAM, has a MSRP of $470. Sure you can pick one up now for $350 but this isn't RDNA3. Just so happens that Nvidia's RTX 3060 is also 392.5 mm2 and is currently selling for about $350, and has a MSRP of $330. The performance of the Intel A770 isn't particularly good compared to the RX 6700 XT and RTX 3060, but it has more VRAM, has a similar sized GPU, and costs about the same. If AMD were to make a RX 7700 then it would be based on TSMC's 5nm, which would reduce the size or increase the transistor count, plus AMD is making RDNA3 with their chiplet technology which should further reduce the price of making these cards. Intel shows it clearly can be done, it's just that AMD doesn't want to upset the market with cheaper better GPU's. As consumers we want better cheaper GPU's, but shareholders want prices to go to the moon. I'm not a shareholder so give me a cheaper GPU.
Feel it will be monolithic down the line.
It would, but I think AMD doesn’t care…
Great for AMD, bad for consumers. A 7700 would be based on RDNA3, which performs better, especially at Ray Tracing. A 7700 would also have driver support for longer, as AMD is known to put their graphic cards into Legacy drivers quicker than Nvidia. Also the 6900 XT isn't the GPU to compare to the 7700 since it currently costs $650.
OEM's can't be doing much better. AMD is doing this simply because they see how the market is doing and it's doing poorly. This is the general consensus of all markets right now, since all markets are suffering from lower than expected sales. Everyone wants to wait because good times are near. Nobody wants to lower prices because that would be bad for stonks. AMD could release the 7700 for $400 or even $350 and still make a good profit, but the problem is that the profits would be too low for shareholders. There's a huge lack of foresight and that is what if people don't buy? Time is not on AMD's and Nvidia's side, because the more they delay the more likely Intel and even China with their PowerVR GPU's will get better. Certainly won't happen in 2023, but neither will AMD and Nvidia seeing GPU sales increase in 2023.
Do you think AMD would want to stop to follow Nvidia performance-naming scheme that much (i.e. 4070 non ti is about a 6900xt and there is not much room between the 6800xt and 6900xt if they want the 7700 to be at least a bit better than the 6800xt it will be a 6900xt), even if it is a 6800xt at the price tag that still kills all the current 6800xt-6900xt-6950xt sales.
OEMs are doing objectively better, laptop sales are basically flat while desktop sales plummet. NVidia sells more mobile gpu’s than they do desktop ones and AMD wants a piece. More OEM desktops are sold than DIY ones and OEM’s build their own cards, handle shipping, they order in advance and in bulk they require less work and far less micromanaging. There is a large cost/benefit to working with the OEM’s.
But TSMC pricing on the 7/6nm node has doubled since the launch of the 6600 so it may be significantly more as well. It depends on how TSMC decides to play.
This thing is going to have to come in really cheap for it to have any kind of success. I'm guessing it wont.
Yup. Especially when you can get a 6700xt for $350 new.
It's just that for months there were good deals on used 3xxx Nvidia, and AMD and Nvidia still have new old stock to move. Those cards prices now exactly fit those lower performance tiers, and they still have some.
It's not hard to compete with their older products, they just don't want to because they would need to be faster and have more VRAM. Which is another reason to be angry that AMD is skipping the 7700.
AMD and Nvidia both produced nearly 2x as many cards of the previous generation as they would have normally because of AIB demand. AIB’s had stocked assuming the mining craze would last far longer than it did and as a result partners like MSI and XFX have very large stockpiles of last generations silicon on hand to still move. Pair that with all the miners dumping their inventory for peanuts and you have a perfect shitstorm for a fucked up market.
AMD and NVidia’s biggest partners have warehouses of last generations hardware still to sell that they already paid for. They are under no obligation to buy more chips from AMD and Nvidia just because they are newer. Until they empty their warehouses they don’t want more stuff, if they had their way AMD and Nvidia would be skipping and paper launching this generation…
Please show me these links of 3090 for $230-$400 shipped
For working 3080, I see nothing that has sold under $390, it tend to be around $440-$500
But they are as EBay is flooded with them. As are a crapload of other sites. Chances are they have been mined with and your mileage will vary with them but that’s what is going on. The 4070 has basically forced the miners to offload the 3080’s for less than a new 4070 and they are doing it as fast as they can. Which I believe was half the reason the 4070 even exists. Because once the 4060ti launches their surplus stock is worthless.
Are they ?
That’s where they started bids at.
I am not sure why one would look at anything else than actual selling price to have an idea of the current pricing on ebay ?
Seriously. Who the fuck doesn't know how eBay works. Wtf is this pawn stars or something
This is your opinion, one that you are admittedly entitled to, but an opinion none the less.
So first you don't want to believe the current used market pricing, then you want to dismiss it. The fact remains that they are selling for lower; but you will always find someone trying to overprice their used items, and this is true for most if not all of ebay. If someone is intent on finding an item for a good price, then they will have to pit in some work to bid on a few until they achieve their goal.
It seems pretty obvious neither of you really know how it works.
There ain't no way.
Oh for sure- for people like us here who are super knowlegable abt the pitfalls of used GPUs and how to thoroughly test for issues before deploying them, cheap cheap discount dealz can be a great way to pick up hardware! But that's a different segment of the market than like "this was my personal daily card for 3 years, fully functional, 30-day money back via Ebay" kind of "safe" deal that I'd recommend to someone who is not a [H]ardware expert and is just trying to get a card for their rig with minimal hassle, and the prices differ accordingly.
I don't care. These AIB's profited the most during the craziness of the past few years.
I'm under no obligation to buy these cards from them. Look at that, we both don't have to do shit.
The more they hold onto those old GPU's the worse things get for them. AMD and Nvidia will at some point have to sell more GPU's, and if that means some Chinese AIB with a stupid name then that's what will happen.
Good on Nvidia, but Nvidia screwed up as well as AMD. Wasn't just the AIB's that fucked up. Skipping the 7700 for AMD is probably a good idea, but for consumers it won't be. Like I said, the 7700 would have been faster, more power efficient, and better at Ray-Tracing. Let the AIB's have a clearance sale to get ride of their old cards. They will only dig themselves into a deeper hole, because at some point they'll have to make a 8700, or 9700. Look how long the GTX 1060 lasted on Steam's Hardware survey. The GTX 1060 is back up to #2, with the 1650 as #1. RTX 3060 on Amazon is $350, which is too much. RTX 3070 is $500 on Amazon, which means someone is on drugs when they think that'll sell. RX 6800 is $500 on Amazon, which is still overpriced. The 6700 XT is $400 and the 6700 is $350, when they should be $250 to $200 and they're old cards not new. The 6600 is $200 when it's the budget card and should be $150, while the 6600 XT is priced at $300 when it should be $180. None of these prices seem like any AIB's is trying to clear out their inventory. They're looking for ignorant fools who don't know the graphics card market is fubar.
