AMD issues guidelines to retailers to prevent Radeon RX 6000 scalping

sc5mu93

Limp Gawd
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As much as I hate extraneous regulation this would be very easy to solve with a simple consumer protection law addition. As someone mentioned there is precedent with scalped physical tickets.

But yeah I'm also with DrDoU on this one... Don't need a GPU that badly that I cant wait 6 months(and probably get it on a reduced price as a bonus).
and maybe a game bundle to boot!
 

big_aug

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As much as I hate extraneous regulation this would be very easy to solve with a simple consumer protection law addition. As someone mentioned there is precedent with scalped physical tickets.

But yeah I'm also with DrDoU on this one... Don't need a GPU that badly that I cant wait 6 months(and probably get it on a reduced price as a bonus).
It's really shitty for people like myself building a new system. I don't have a PC st all currently. I was doing a fresh build from scratch. Awful timing. Here I thought it was a great time with 3080 being released. I didn't realize it wasn't really released. If previous gen was cheaper it wouldn't be too bad, but they are freaking crazy too.
 

chameleoneel

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5700 has already been announced as end of life, no longer in production. I suspect for two reasons:

1. It doesn't really have a good place, pricewise. Lower cost 5700XT aren't a lot more than a standard 5700. Higher cost 5700 would be in 5700XT territory. And higher cost 5600xt perform nearly as well as the 5700 and are cheaper. Can be noteably cheaper and still have that performance, if you sift through all of the SKUs. And in my opinion, its much better to have very clear separation between product tiers. The overlap of products the past couple of years has been really annoying.

2. AMD intends to replace the 56/57 cards. I suspect both will be discounted until they reach end of life, to make up for the fact they do not have current buzzword features such as ray tracing. Its possible AMD could have their replacement ready sooner than expected. But I wouldn't bet on it. AMD's production will already be full enough with Zen 3 and the higher model RDNA 2 cards. But, I don't expect a rebrand. AMD just took steps to avoid product confusion, with the change to the product naming scheme for Zen 3. To clearly separate them from all Zen 2 based products. I doubt they would turn around and sell 56 and 57 cards under the same naming scheme as RDNA2. The features gap will be too large to avoid a lot of noise and criticism, if they rebranded them.


*I could also see the 5600xt becoming AMD's new budget king at the $200 tier, replacing the RX580. However, I would think they would just put an RDNA2 product there, as well. RDNA2 seems like a very refined product which will probably be cheaper to make and even easier to power. Such a product could even end up being a sort of RDNA2+ process refinement, by the time it is released.
These leaked details are more or less in line with my comments above:

https://www.techpowerup.com/273611/...ecs-leak-rx-6900-xt-rx-6800-xt-rx-6700-series
 

toast0

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As much as I hate extraneous regulation this would be very easy to solve with a simple consumer protection law addition. As someone mentioned there is precedent with scalped physical tickets.

Physical ticket resale is prohibited around the event. I don't see people selling GPUs in the parking lot of best buy out of their trunk.

When I added captcha to my website, spam through my various contact forms and fake user sign ups went down almost 100%.
Captcha is pretty effective if there's not a lot of value to bypassing it, but it doesn't cost much to have someone solve a captcha for your bot, if there's value. Lot's of captcha farms out there, unfortunately.
 

cybereality

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I don't see people selling GPUs in the parking lot of best buy out of their trunk.
You know, that's not a crazy business plan. Go to Microcenter with people camping and offer them the card for double price, I bet some people would bite.
 

Iratus

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That release reminded me of work too much.

“let’s work together”

leading into

“here’s all the things that we want you to do but no comment or commitment on what we will do”

followed by a borderline passive aggressive “report to your paymaster to confirm you have completed this” with a subtext of “your relationship manager will be watching”

That’s the kind of working together I love. Yay partnership <3
 

Iratus

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Still haven’t got my 3090

Man I wish I didn’t need cuda. I’d be down for some sweet Red on Red action.

I’m feeling positive, hopefully I can get a nice share bump too. You can doooo eeeeet
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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That release reminded me of work too much.

“let’s work together”

leading into

“here’s all the things that we want you to do but no comment or commitment on what we will do”

followed by a borderline passive aggressive “report to your paymaster to confirm you have completed this” with a subtext of “your relationship manager will be watching”

That’s the kind of working together I love. Yay partnership <3
Given that you have personal experience with this sort of situation, what would be your suggestions to AMD to impact the situation?
 

Iratus

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Given that you have personal experience with this sort of situation, what would be your suggestions to AMD to impact the situation?
20 years, I still shit myself when I see that FrgMstr notification. Still feels like eye of Sauron is going to tell me I’m doomed.

Anyway, it’s just tone and the gap between businessspeak and the intent. The intentions are good and I’d absolutely encourage retailers to do something to prioritise the customer (having been living this) and recommending mitigants is laudable. Covering off their contribution though, Committments to supply, informing as to how supply will be communicated to dIstribution channels (and hopefully better than Nvidia’s *fuck knows*) Linking to resources on how to do some of those things, facilitating engagement between downstream partners that will have the same problems and can learn from each other, saying which ones are most effective vs easiest etc etc. it’s the work of a few moments but is more positive and constructive.

I just wish people would be a bit more considered, especially when it’s important and with stuff like this is where it is in part relationship management & that relationship flows through, AMD’s customers are distributors and retailers, their consumers (us) are the ones negatively impacted and it impacts brand perception so it *is* critical. I own my company, I have partners, much bigger companies than AMD (which I’d like them to fix as I hold stock), I also used to work in a global tech product company with a similar customer / consumer disconnect, I saw the same shit all the damn time and so as I said, it just reminds me a lot of work. Doesn’t mean I don’t want the advice followed, doesn’t mean I don’t want to make my charity donation when the Benchmarks come out.

It’s like your boss emailing you and saying “can I ask a favor and finishes with “thanks in advance”, it just riles me. Text is just like that. Any narrow-band communication medium lacks subtext and masks intent so mindfulness helps.
 

Lakados

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That release reminded me of work too much.

“let’s work together”

leading into

“here’s all the things that we want you to do but no comment or commitment on what we will do”

followed by a borderline passive aggressive “report to your paymaster to confirm you have completed this” with a subtext of “your relationship manager will be watching”

That’s the kind of working together I love. Yay partnership <3
Yeah I used to see memo’s like that all the time, usually from a manager telling the department they were working OT over the weekend as they are on their way out the door for their golf retreat weekend.
 

LukeTbk

Limp Gawd
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Sep 10, 2020
Messages
396
Given that you have personal experience with this sort of situation, what would be your suggestions to AMD to impact the situation?
One would be many month in advance with some minimal requirement not just suggestion to stay a partner that can sales on launch. It is asking a lot (a bit of hindsight that it would be an big issue and market advantage because of NVidia launch and so on) but taht one.
 

Lakados

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They may really need to do this, recent leaks say that the 6900XT is going to be an AMD exclusive card, done as a limited release much like they did with the VII's which only had 5000 produced, so they expect this to very much be a hot item, exactly the kind of thing that scalpers go gaga for.
 
Joined
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Messages
601
20 years, I still shit myself when I see that FrgMstr notification. Still feels like eye of Sauron is going to tell me I’m doomed.

Anyway, it’s just tone and the gap between businessspeak and the intent. The intentions are good and I’d absolutely encourage retailers to do something to prioritise the customer (having been living this) and recommending mitigants is laudable. Covering off their contribution though, Committments to supply, informing as to how supply will be communicated to dIstribution channels (and hopefully better than Nvidia’s *fuck knows*) Linking to resources on how to do some of those things, facilitating engagement between downstream partners that will have the same problems and can learn from each other, saying which ones are most effective vs easiest etc etc. it’s the work of a few moments but is more positive and constructive.

I just wish people would be a bit more considered, especially when it’s important and with stuff like this is where it is in part relationship management & that relationship flows through, AMD’s customers are distributors and retailers, their consumers (us) are the ones negatively impacted and it impacts brand perception so it *is* critical. I own my company, I have partners, much bigger companies than AMD (which I’d like them to fix as I hold stock), I also used to work in a global tech product company with a similar customer / consumer disconnect, I saw the same shit all the damn time and so as I said, it just reminds me a lot of work. Doesn’t mean I don’t want the advice followed, doesn’t mean I don’t want to make my charity donation when the Benchmarks come out.

It’s like your boss emailing you and saying “can I ask a favor and finishes with “thanks in advance”, it just riles me. Text is just like that. Any narrow-band communication medium lacks subtext and masks intent so mindfulness helps.
Given that you are a business owner would you like to see legislation addressing the bot-scalping issue. As has been mentioned before, ticket scalping is illegal. I personally think the analogy is valid and that it does not matter whether you are standing outside a brick and mortar. Online stores are where sales occur and ebay is the guy standing outside newegg scalping. I just love this hobby and want enthusiasts put at the forefront and protected.
 

Iratus

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Given that you are a business owner would you like to see legislation addressing the bot-scalping issue. As has been mentioned before, ticket scalping is illegal. I personally think the analogy is valid and that it does not matter whether you are standing outside a brick and mortar. Online stores are where sales occur and ebay is the guy standing outside newegg scalping. I just love this hobby and want enthusiasts put at the forefront and protected.

I think regulation on it would be an overreach. Stepping over the whole role of government issues that are a lightning rod for ire (and is politics so against the rules outside soapbox)

There’s no injury to the party for a start, so any punishment is punitive, plus legislators wouldn’t be able to craft anything sensible about obligations as no contract exists between a vendor and someone who can’t buy something.

You might be able to do something with general consumer protections but it’s not an area where most countries have shown much competence at effective regulation. It’d get argued as anti-capitalist, socialist whatever and would get lobbied to shit anyway as you’re restricting ability to make money in a bunch of areas, the US in particular doesn’t hold primacy of natural persons.

It could also restrict trade, small retailers do not have the resources to enter into an arms race with what is in effect a bunch of script kiddies.

Policies however are not unreasonable, if you’re the manufacturer it is reasonable (and sensible) to take steps to make sure that your distribution channel is protected, that’s in the interest of most parties, as any price arbitrage is lost money, plus the reputational impact etc. That’s the stick that underpins AMDs response here, don’t do it and you ain’t getting shit in the future. I agree with that, it’s the absence of carrot and general tone that riled me.

Given the trend to online retail it’s possible to solve with innovation. A startup that acted as a clearing house for example, allowing retailers to broker a sale through them as a service where they maintain the queue and and have more focussed resources being applied to defence protections. Add ons for the the sales platforms that most etailers use (most are common, it’s only differentiating at a scale most companies can only dream of). Bunch of ways it could be done.

In the same way the bots processes are industrialising (organising and commercial products being formed) making it worse, the response will industrialise soon. Such as it goes, anywhere there’s opportunity people will exploit it.
 

cdabc123

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Given that you are a business owner would you like to see legislation addressing the bot-scalping issue. As has been mentioned before, ticket scalping is illegal. I personally think the analogy is valid and that it does not matter whether you are standing outside a brick and mortar. Online stores are where sales occur and ebay is the guy standing outside newegg scalping. I just love this hobby and want enthusiasts put at the forefront and protected.

and ticket scalping resulted in more personal information being help by the companies selling tickets. I would prefer if hardware retailers did not all try to grab that information as well. Short of that I dont believe its possible to stop any type of bot from buying cards.
 
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Good points made. I tend to be an idealist in terms of government being able craft legislation that is reasonable and fair. I know that is a reach, but there is room for hope still, I think.
 

UltraTaco

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Feb 21, 2020
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Mates, taco thinks this should be left to rest. It'll resolve itself.(when enough stock comes)🍕.
 

MrGuvernment

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Tengis Then who ever was using your site randomly was using pretty crappy automated signup systems. 15 years ago in my online poker days me and the webmaster had a demo done for us on the effectiveness of CAPTCHA's and were blown away at how useless they were, and most have not changed today that are used from 15 years ago.
 

sphinx99

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In my eyes the only robust mitigation is having healthy supply on launch and being transparent about the ramp, thereby undercutting the flipper's motivation. That responsibility falls on AMD's and nVidia's shoulders. They both are trying to make this a reseller / distributor issue to avoid talking about their supply woes.
 

cybereality

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Nvidia has a Captcha for you to login to Geforce Experience on your own friggin computer.

1603399413295.png

The fact that they didn't have one to purchase a GPU is intentionally negligent.
 

Lakados

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They are using our abilities to train artificial intelligence and alien babies at seti! Taco is intentionally getting it wrong every other time to throw them off! Never been a fan of captchas.😡😡
Write an AI whose only job is to latch onto the feeds training other AI’s and fill them with bad datasets. Call it Trollmast3r
 

cdabc123

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A few places did that, they killed them once they had developed interconnect languages that were advanced enough their human monitors could no longer comprehend them.

I dont believe that is a difficault point to get to. All it takes is a connection and some desire to optimize and compress the data stream. It probably wasnt complex to the point we were unable to comprehind it it just wasnt a common form of compression. I would imagine the data stream is also a good portion nonsense
 
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If these cards are released in limited quantities, it wont matter what policies that resellers sets in place, it will be all sold out and we will be waiting for more stock. Heres to hoping that AMD has sufficient stock to meet the demands for these cards. Surely some folks from Nvidia will cross over if there is cards to be had, with similar performance/price.
 

cdabc123

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If these cards are released in limited quantities, it wont matter what policies that resellers sets in place, it will be all sold out and we will be waiting for more stock. Heres to hoping that AMD has sufficient stock to meet the demands for these cards. Surely some folks from Nvidia will cross over if there is cards to be had, with similar performance/price.
Heres to hoping they have a healthy stock at launch. They will put themselves in a great position in the GPU and heck if they have enough cards ready they can happily sell to the scalpers too
 
Joined
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Heres to hoping they have a healthy stock at launch. They will put themselves in a great position in the GPU and heck if they have enough cards ready they can happily sell to the scalpers too
If theres enough stock, there wont be anything to scalp! No reason to pay over MSRP!
 

LukeTbk

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Funny thing is the bots can solve those better than I can. I can’t see fire hydrant for shit.
Are capchat rely on the people answer ?

Maybe it changed but at one point capchat was purely detecting human or not human mostly by the way the mouse moved and clicked on it, the challenge part was paid by google client often it is to build bank of image to train automated car at some other point it was to read text that scan to text algorithm failed when for example the NY Times collection of newspapers was all digitized. It is there to make money from user doing some work not to stop bots.
 

Iratus

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Tengis Then who ever was using your site randomly was using pretty crappy automated signup systems. 15 years ago in my online poker days me and the webmaster had a demo done for us on the effectiveness of CAPTCHA's and were blown away at how useless they were, and most have not changed today that are used from 15 years ago.
and ironically I can write a 'bot' that is better at online poker than I am, including all the detection avoidance. The captcha tickbox is a good example of where you're actually using "inaccuracy" to infer humanity, because people don't click the dead centre of the box.

Funny thing is the bots can solve those better than I can. I can’t see fire hydrant for shit.
Exactly that, that's why they use low resolution and nonsensical images, make a big enough image and it's trivial to do image recognition or even work out context. I was literally developing a product based on a bunch of stuff (had to park it as I'm not good enough a developer) the stuff that can be done with (technical terms) semantic scene segmentation and recognition is mind boggling these days, ironically because the gpu's make the math practically executable. Take a look at pytorch3d, as a friend described it when I showed him what he could do "Holy shit that's skynet shit". All created by Facebook by some of the best software people on the planet for I'm sure entirely non-creepy purposes.

It's a tough problem, but if you can make it harder and so reduce the returns, it'll diminish. You can never elimnate the risk because someone is always gonna be smart enough. It's just whether it's worth their time.

Or, as ultrataco says, increase supply. Everything boils down to supply / demand at the end of the day. Increase supply and the market price drops.
 

sphinx99

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Unfortunately the very existence of this statement from AMD indicates that they have a supply problem and know it. The only difference: they are being proactive about shifting blame to their distributors *before* launch.

Here in the Bay Area, our local chain--Central Computers--is holding raffles for the limited stock they have. I'd love to see more stores follow their example and operate with this kind of transparency. I love giving these folks my business for this reason. https://www.centralcomputer.com/nvidia-30-series-information#raffle
 

FrgMstr

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Unfortunately the very existence of this statement from AMD indicates that they have a supply problem and know it. The only difference: they are being proactive about shifting blame to their distributors *before* launch.
This is the most asinine statement I have seen about this yet. The only way AMD has Q4 supply issues is if a huge section of the TAM rolls over from Green to Red. And let's say that happens. AMD still will sell easily 15X of what NV had to date.

Your statement at best is not based on anything factual and is at worst is simply fanboy shilling.
 

sphinx99

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This is the most asinine statement I have seen about this yet. The only way AMD has Q4 supply issues is if a huge section of the TAM rolls over from Green to Red. And let's say that happens. AMD still will sell easily 15X of what NV had to date.

Your statement at best is not based on anything factual and is at worst is simply fanboy shilling.
The fanboy inference is ironic considering I'm really hoping to get one of these cards, with no RTX in sight in my area. But in any case, my statement is no more baseless than yours so I guess we'll see which of our asinine opinions are right. Actually we won't since that would require transparency of supply that neither company will provide. So I guess we can both go ahead and claim victory in advance since no claim can be proven anyway.

Certainly, when it comes to track records AMD isn't exactly the standard setter for launch availability, given how long it took to secure a 3960x (after giving up altogether on the lower 3000 series SKUs)
 

FrgMstr

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my statement is no more baseless than yours
Oh yes it very much is. I am still very much plugged into the industry that I have been deeply involved with for over two decades. You're entire statement had to do with your nvidia experience. It has zero to do with AMD. The statement was idiotic at best and not based on factual knowledge of what is occurring in the industry currently.
 

sphinx99

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Oh yes it very much is. I am still very much plugged into the industry that I have been deeply involved with for over two decades. You're entire statement had to do with your nvidia experience. It has zero to do with AMD. The statement was idiotic at best and not based on factual knowledge of what is occurring in the industry currently.
Cool! Good to know that on launch week I'll be able to get my hands on one of these cards relatively easily. I'll tell the folks at Best Buy that FrgMstr told me it's going to be pretty awesome cause HE'S PLUGGED IN!

(Seriously: I am hoping you are right. But I have zero qualms about having a negative reaction to AMD issuing a statement like they did, and inferring a supply risk--in a COVID world where all launches are botched--from a company that had a less than memorable Ryzen 3000 launch...)
 
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