2nd Tier Makers Unlikely To Ship Fermi Cards Until April

So what? That's the beauty of the free market system. They can ask what they want. We as consumers should do our duty and not purchase at that price point if we want the price to come down.

Actually, newegg's pattern usually is:
- first super small batch of cards is sold at MSRP so the bleeding edge earlier adopters post happy things on the forums.
- then subsequent batches of popular cards are sold at "set by demand" higher prices. ;)

Thats fine if you have $750 to blow on it. My HD5870 running 1Ghz /1300mhz has been wonderful for the $380 I paid for it in Oct and I bet Fermi won't be much faster.
 
What makes the GTX480 worth $679? I though that price point was reserved for dual GPU cards??
Probably the fact it has 512 CUDA cores. The GTX295s have (had) 240 x 2 cores. The GTX285 have 240 cores. So "technically" you could say the GTX480 is a dual GPU card in terms of number of cores. I think with that much processing power the GF100s are going to be enormously powerful for CUDA calculations. I think these cards will be very popular for Folding and other computationally intensive processes. They might also run hot as hell.
 
Looks like an ATI in my next rig.

You will not regret it. I have been with nvidia this round since the 6800gt. Went through every high end card until the 275 GTX in SLI. I decided to go with ATI. Got myself the 5870 and have been loving it ever since. It took me a little while to get used to the CCC, but after that, it has been smooth sailing. I even went crossfire. Plugged in the card, and it just works.
 
So if you want 3 monitor gaming at a minimum you're spending $1000. The performance had better be otherworldly.
 
Jesus Christ enough with the, "this is fake pricing" posts. We get it it's fake. Fuck.

Its not fake though.

WTF is the matter with you guys? $499 and $679 are the normal price points for Nvidia cards when they first ship...
 
The question is , the performance on par with the 5970 or they have so few that it wont matter ?
 
Wasn't there a GTX 7800 that sold for over $500 at one time?

Both did IIRC. The worst thing was 256mb version was shortly obsoleted by the 512mb card.

7800gtx.gif
.

My worst purchase ever, it was old and busted in no time. The $650? 8800 GTX has given YEARS of acceptable performance and will still run anything with decent visual settings. The same holds true for those who bought the 280 in its first month, before the $150 price drop.

However much the GTX 480 costs and performs, it can't be worse than their first $600 card IMO!
 
what's with the people yelling FAKE?

That has been Nvidia's pricing strategy since the 7 series:

$650 for the GTX 280 and $400 for the GTX 260
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3334

the 900 GX2 @ 600$-650$ (granted, a dual chip card, but since there isn't actually a real 9 series anyway - that's the only flagship of the refresh).
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3266

the GTX8800 debuted @ 600$-650$.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2979

7950 GX2 @ 600$-650$ (again, a dual, but came out over a year later, as a refresh series, before they decided to rename the series each shrink, a la 8 to 9)
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2769

7800 GTX 600$-650$
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2717

see?
just because ATI finally gave NVidia some competition, and made it lower prices dramatically, doesn't mean you should all forget the last 5 YEARS!

p.s
not to mention the insane 8800 ultra, @ 800$-1000$
p.p.s
sorry about the anadtech links kyle, they were just the easiest to find.
 
We are yelling fake because prices haven't been released, in fact Nvidia made a statement that those prices were made up.

Also, Nvidia flat out said they made a major mistake with their GTX 200 prices being so high, and were specifically going to avoid that with the Fermi release. The real question is how high the retailers will gouge us considering there will be no stock.
 
Probably the fact it has 512 CUDA cores. The GTX295s have (had) 240 x 2 cores. The GTX285 have 240 cores. So "technically" you could say the GTX480 is a dual GPU card in terms of number of cores.

What a weak excuse.

So nvidia say hmm well the gtx480 has 512 cuda cores we should charge almost $700 as technically it's 2 cards, hey then we can call it Gtx295+32!!111@
 
see?
just because ATI finally gave NVidia some competition, and made it lower prices dramatically, doesn't mean you should all forget the last 5 YEARS!

What ATI did was change the performance expectations at a given price point starting with their 4000 series GPUs and really driven home with their 5000 series GPUs.

ATI's aggressive pricing on the 4000 series GPUs forced NVIDIA's hand in lowering the price of their GT200 series GPUs. It really threw NVIDIA's pricing strategy of the past 5 years out the window.

The ATI 5870 has a MSRP of $380. If we assume the NVIDIA GTX 470 is 5% faster then the ATI 5870, then a $400 MSRP would be the sweet spot. A MSRP of $450 would be the absolute maximum NVIDIA could get away with if they didn't feel like putting pressure on ATI.

The ATI 5970 has a MSRP of $600. The NVIDIA GTX 295 has an MSRP of $500. If we assume the GTX 480 is 25% faster then the ATI 5870 while being 5% slower then the GTX 295 and something like 20% slower then the ATI 5970, NVIDIA doesn't have a lot of room in how the GTX 480 could be priced. The sweet spot would be a MSRP of $480. If NVIDIA really wanted to push their luck, a MSRP in the range of $500-550 is the highest they could reasonably go.

In other words, unless NVIDIA suprizes everyone and the GTX 480 is a ATI 5970 killer, there is no way in hell they can expect to sell it for an MSRP of $680.
 
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I would only pay $300 max for a GTX480.

-$379 for making me wait a long time

End of story.
 
What ATI did was change the performance expectations at a given price point starting with their 4000 series GPUs and really driven home with their 5000 series GPUs.

ATI's aggressive pricing on the 4000 series GPUs forced NVIDIA's hand in lowering the price of their GT200 series GPUs. It really threw NVIDIA's pricing strategy of the past 5 years out the window.

The ATI 5870 has a MSRP of $380. If we assume the NVIDIA GTX 470 is 5% faster then the ATI 5870, then a $400 MSRP would be the sweet spot. A MSRP of $450 would be the absolute maximum NVIDIA could get away with if they didn't feel like putting pressure on ATI.

The ATI 5970 has a MSRP of $600. The NVIDIA GTX 295 has an MSRP of $500. If we assume the GTX 480 is 25% faster then the ATI 5870 while being 5% slower then the GTX 295 and something like 20% slower then the ATI 5970, NVIDIA doesn't have a lot of room in how the GTX 480 could be priced. The sweet spot would be a MSRP of $480. If NVIDIA really wanted to push their luck, a MSRP in the range of $500-550 is the highest they could reasonably go.

In other words, unless NVIDIA suprizes everyone and the GTX 480 is a ATI 5970 killer, there is no way in hell they can expect to sell it for an MSRP of $680.

if yields are as dire as it sounds , hardcore nvidia fan bots (don't know how many there are ) but those who really can't run ati for some reason will buy the gtx 480 no matter the price. If they can only make a few hundred a month or less then they will sell it at $680 because there will be people who have to have one for one reason or another.

Personaly i think these prices are right .

I think the gtx 470 will hit at 450$ish because it will be limited and will be faster (sometimes up to 20% in rare cases but mostly trading blows with a 5870. The 480gtx will be upwards of 40% faster than the 5870 in very rare cases (physx titles and even then rarely) but mostly 20% or so. It will be slower than the 5970 but even more rare than that card.


nvidia has to watch out though because ati can simply adjust the 58x0 series. 5830 hits $200 , 5850 hits $250 and the 5870 hits $325. Ati can even lower the 5970 price. I don't think it will go less than $550 though.

I also think ati will have a 5890 or something in store for a month or two after fermi. Remember march 26th is over 6 months after the 5870 launch. So ati can add a refresh part already. I'd wager a 5890 will perform between the 470 and 480 and be priced around the 470 range.
 
What a weak excuse.

So nvidia say hmm well the gtx480 has 512 cuda cores we should charge almost $700 as technically it's 2 cards, hey then we can call it Gtx295+32!!111@
Hey, don't be mad at me, I'm just guessing! Go yell at Nvidia. :p
 
I find it amusing that everyone is balking at the price but fails to remember that the GTX 280 debuted at $659.99.

...and 18 months before that a grand for the top tier single GPU card was the norm. The market won't support that kind of price for a single GPU card for very long.

:cool:
 
one of these days Nvidia is going to release some good news about Fermi :p

they will right?...someday?
 
@pasta4u

Even if NVIDIA initially prices both the GTX 470 and 480 sky high at $500 & $680 to take advantage of early adopters and low stock, they won't be able to maintain those prices for very long.

As you mentioned, a ATI refresh is likely incoming, which they will no doubt price competitively to keep the pressure on NVIDIA, and could result in some minor price drops of their high-end cards.

Whatever the launch prices end up being, sooner rather then later (I predict no later then June, 2 months after launch) NVIDIA will be once again be forced to drop the price of the GTX 470 & 480 down to at least $400 & $500 respectively, in order to stay remotely competitive.

Yet no matter what happens, I will just be watching amusingly in the coming months.

For the past 2 years I have been planning to build my next beast of a computer around the 32nm Intel Westmere processor to update the aging system in my sig built in 2005. I also prefer NVIDIA's cards, which means I've been waiting for both the release of Gulftown and Fermi. I've even been seriously considering going for dual Westmere Xeons along with that new EVGA W555 board with overclocking ability. Since I always build my computers in the the summer months around July or early August, this has been working out perfectly for me. By sheer luck, even after the massive delays, all three are releasing around March, which gives a few months for supply and demand as well as prices to stabilize. Bad come to worse, I'll end up waiting for the much needed 28nm Fermi die-shrink refresh which will supposedly come at the end of the year, and if NVIDIA screws the pooch on that, I'll reluctantly give ATI another chance and buy their best 28nm single-gpu card they are offering at the time.
 
@pasta4u

For the past 2 years I have been planning to build my next beast of a computer around the 32nm Intel Westmere processor to update the aging system in my sig built in 2005. I also prefer NVIDIA's cards, which means I've been waiting for both the release of Gulftown and Fermi. I've even been seriously considering going for dual Westmere Xeons along with that new EVGA W555 board with overclocking ability. Since I always build my computers in the the summer months around July or early August, this has been working out perfectly for me. By sheer luck, even after the massive delays, all three are releasing around March, which gives a few months for supply and demand as well as prices to stabilize. Bad come to worse, I'll end up waiting for the much needed 28nm Fermi die-shrink refresh which will supposedly come at the end of the year, and if NVIDIA screws the pooch on that, I'll reluctantly give ATI another chance and buy their best 28nm single-gpu card they are offering at the time.

This post is a prime example of why constantly waiting on the next new thing in hardware is a poor route to take. You've been waiting for new tech for so long that you've been using a severely outdated system for years. You could have had a much better computing experience all that time if you had made smaller incremental upgrades buying the most competitive hardware when it came available.


On topic: I don't know why some of you keep repeating the "prices are fake" meme. What did you expect? People (myself included) have been saying for months and months that when Fermi chips started shipping there was no way you'd see a single GPU flagship for less than $600.
 
This is pretty discouraging... I could care less who comes out ahead, ATI or NV, I'll endure the quirks of either to get away with a better value... But it doesn't look like the initial Fermi offerings will have any impact whatsoever on the 5850's pricing, which is what I was really hoping for.

Basically it means either NV comes out w/two really expensive really fast cards that compete w/the 5870 & the 5970, or they come out w/a flop... Either way those of us looking for a mid-range card are stuck w/current pricing for several more months, possibly 'till the fall? :eek:
 
I find it amusing that everyone is balking at the price but fails to remember that the GTX 280 debuted at $659.99.

The GTX 260 & 280 debuted to zero competition tho. These cards are gonna have to compete w/the 5850, 5870, and 5970. I'm not saying that NV isn't up to the task, but even if they are up to it we're gonna lose as consumers; because their strategy has never revolved around their lower end offerings first... Which means instead of new cards and more competition lowering existing prices (as ATI's 4800-series did to the GTX 200-series), we just get even more expensive cards to go along w/the ones that are already out. If it all pans out as everyone expects anyway, ho hum...
 
For the past 2 years I have been planning to build my next beast of a computer around the 32nm Intel Westmere processor to update the aging system in my sig built in 2005. I also prefer NVIDIA's cards, which means I've been waiting for both the release of Gulftown and Fermi. ... By sheer luck, even after the massive delays, all three are releasing around March, which gives a few months for supply and demand as well as prices to stabilize. Bad come to worse, I'll end up waiting for the much needed 28nm Fermi die-shrink refresh which will supposedly come at the end of the year, and if NVIDIA screws the pooch on that, I'll reluctantly give ATI another chance and buy their best 28nm single-gpu card they are offering at the time.

Man, at that pace you're gonna be waiting forever... I've gone thru some 3-4 year hauls waiting on a new platform / socket / memory type / whatever for an upgrade and I honestly can't remember it ever being worth it. When I waited on s939 instead of jumping on a cheap s754 it wasn't worth it, missed out on PCI-E so upgrade-ability-wise it was a wash. When I waited on Socket 370 for my Pentium III rig I ended up w/less OC headroom than everyone w/a Slot 1, so I just paid more for a slightly faster rig (to play StarCraft predominantly, lol) that wasn't as fun to tinker with.

When I built my existing rig last April I knew P55/LGA1566 & i5 were looming on the horizon, but I said screw it, I was ready to build my rig right then and there... Could've opted to spend a lil' more and go for X58 & i7 instead but I figured the extra $200 I might've spent on that were better spent on a SSD. Haven't regretted either decision for a second. /shrug
 
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This post is a prime example of why constantly waiting on the next new thing in hardware is a poor route to take. You've been waiting for new tech for so long that you've been using a severely outdated system for years. You could have had a much better computing experience all that time if you had made smaller incremental upgrades buying the most competitive hardware when it came available.


On topic: I don't know why some of you keep repeating the "prices are fake" meme. What did you expect? People (myself included) have been saying for months and months that when Fermi chips started shipping there was no way you'd see a single GPU flagship for less than $600.


+1. All these people that waited for Fermi and going to be severely disappointed - if not by the performance, heat and power usage then by the price. I'm glad I jumped to my HD5870 when I did. While it's stupid to wait forever with old hardware I don't see any value in upgrading my 4.1 Ghz Q9550 to an i7. I prefer to slowly upgrade and sell my current hardware before its worthless. It seems to work better for me than dropping $1k at a time on a whole new rig.

+1 on the price debate. Of course the price points will be $499 and $699 its fucking Nvidia. They rape the shit out of you every chance they get... remember the 280GTX?? When the ATI cards launched they dropped the prices like $150 then felt bad and started offering refund to the idiot-early-adopters-of-their-overpriced-hardware. Don't expect a refund this time.

btw the HD5870 is the only GPU I've ever owned that actually went up in value for awhile (I could've sold it for over $400 easily) and still holds it's $379 (which is what I paid) value 5 months later.
 
That is way too expensive! I will just hold on to my GTX 285's for the forseable future.

Its the same price point NVIDIA always seems to use lately, thinking the performance is worth the huge jack in price, it was the same with the 28* series i recall, $600+ price tag and people still bought it, even though for almost $200 cheap you could get an ATI card that would do everything you wanted to unless you had some unreal 50000 x67848 resolution.
 
Bad come to worse, I'll end up waiting for the much needed 28nm Fermi die-shrink refresh which will supposedly come at the end of the year

can you pass that over here please? that shit you're smokin'!

you really think nvidia will have 28nm fermi refresh out by the end of this year??? they can't even get the 40nm fermi out.
 
the price points seem about $100 out of line in both cases IMO. i jumped out early and got a 4870 512 when they first came out and while i am still running that card and i am very happy with it i will never again be burned by either camp for their initial price gouging.

People complain about pricing, there is a pretty simple solution to it....just dont buy it, not until its at a price you like

Yes it sucks and you have to wait....but the way i see it, we are already waiting for it to come out, what is a little bit longer right?
 
If the price is true then I'll be grabbing an ATI refresh in a few months. :(
 
You know, the 8800 Ultra was over $800 when it launch. It sold for as high as $1,000.

Of course, I didn't buy one. I was on an 8800GT sized budget at the time and I'm only on a 8800 GTX sized budget now.
 
nVidia has NOT denied the pricing - they have only said it's "unconfirmed".

Too little; too late; too damned expensive.
 
Price would be justified if there was software to take advantage of all that power- biggest challenge ATI/Nvidia has right now is that most games run extremely well on mid range cards. ATI knows this, that is why you are seeing such good cards under $250.
 
I got sick of the wait and picked up a 5850 two weeks ago to have something decent to run my new TV at 1920x1080.

This has got to be the mose closedlipped launch of a card ever....I mean no PRICES a month before launch?
 
By the time Newegg gouges for stock, they will be running $50 more than MSRP. 480 for $749.

/happens every time.

That's why I've been ordering from online markets like amazon that usually don't price guoge. That and CA tax.
 
This post is a prime example of why constantly waiting on the next new thing in hardware is a poor route to take. You've been waiting for new tech for so long that you've been using a severely outdated system for years. You could have had a much better computing experience all that time if you had made smaller incremental upgrades buying the most competitive hardware when it came available.
We will have to agree to disagree.

It doesn't bother me at all, that is just how I prefer to build my PCs.The previous PC to the one in my sig was built in 2001 around the release of Windows XP with dual AMD Athlon MP processors (dual-core processors were only a fantasy in 2001). When the dual-core AMD X2 4800+ rolled around 4 years later in 2005, it was the perfect upgrade over my older dual-processor box (Intel only had the craptastic Pentium 4 & D at that time). In all honesty, the AMD X2 4800+ in this PC has held up very well over time. Hell, I can play nearly any recent game at near max quality at 1024x768 or 1280x720 with my 7800GTX 512, so I've been making do. You can blame PS3 and XBOX 360 for gimping PC gaming and making such a thing possible.

Having zero upgrade path on Socket 939, eliminated any option of minor upgrades. If I wanted to upgrade, CPU, RAM, and Motherboard would have to be replaced, and I didn't feel like spending $500-2000 on a sub-par new PC that wouldn't last me very long and only be a minor upgrade over my current PC.

I almost bit on Nehalem last year but honestly the NVIDIA GT200 series was crap, and ATI's 4000 series didn't look that great to me either. DirectX 10 was also crap, and NVIDIA didn't support DirectX 10.1, so for maximum lifespan, waiting for DirectX 11 cards felt like the best choice. We also had SATA 6Gbps and USB 3.0 incoming (now available) which are standards that will be with us a very long time into the future, so I didn't want to miss out on those either. Not to mention SSD drives which are slowly but surely moving into the mainstream with prices dropping at a nice pace.

The Intel Westmere processors are supposedly the last CPU-only part on Intel's roadmap before they go off into the CPU/GPU combo or Larrabee direction. Intels new direction after Westmere doesn't interest me very much, so going for Gulftown seems like the last chance for a traditional CPU upgrade and it is no doubt a killer part.

AMD X2 4800+ Dual-core -> Intel Gulftown Hex-core or Dual Westmere Xeons
4GB of DDR400 -> 12GB of DDR3
7800GTX 512 (DX9c) -> GTX480 or Radeon 5870 (DX11)
PCI-E 1.0 -> PCI-E 2.0
SATA 3Gbps -> SATA 6Gbps
USB 2.0 -> USB 3.0
10K Raptor -> SSD
Windows XP -> Windows 7

I couldn't be happier for waiting this long to upgrade. With all the money I've saved, I can now splurge on this new beast of a system. Revolutionary upgrades that beat the socks of my old PC in all aspects, brings new standards, all while outperforming it by 2-4x+ is just how I like it. The above will no doubt last me another 3-5 years until the next technology curve bringing new standards arrives.

you really think nvidia will have 28nm fermi refresh out by the end of this year??? they can't even get the 40nm fermi out.

No, but end of 2010 is the only rumor I've seen for die-shrinks from both AMD and NVIDIA. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if die-shrinks from both major players got delayed into Q2 2011.
 
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I find it amusing that everyone is balking at the price but fails to remember that the GTX 280 debuted at $659.99.

And I balked at that price too. Just because they are balking at this price now doesn't mean others haven't balked at such a price in the past. But as I pointed out when I disagreed with Kyle's estimate of the opening prices in a post in this thread, it's not like Nvidia hasn't priced the top end card at the time of a new series launch at such a price either so I know such is possible. But then again GTX 280 wasn't 5 or 6 months wait nor did it a large PR fiasco, they do have to compete with a mature Radeon 58xx series, not a 58xx series launched the same week or so as their launch.
 
28nm fermi - I haven't laughed that hard in awhile. We may see a 28nm ATI GPU later this year, but no way nvidia will shrink the die by the end of the year. I still believe they'll be lucky to get 40nm Fermi to market by Q3 in ample quantities.
 
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The pricing is all relative to performance.

If the $499 GTX 470 surpasses a 5870 by a good 30%, then I say its priced decently.
And the GTX 480 would have to equal a 5970 if its asking for a $680 price.

Only time and benchmarks will tell if the price is justified or not.
 
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