mobo for i5-11400 vr rig

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ecologist

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Hi everybody,
I am building a vr rig (quest2) and chose the i5 11400F (£150). I need advice with selecting the right board and ram. I live in UK, can shop at SCAN/Amazon/Ebuyer/.., my cpu+mobo+ram budget is £400. not interested in overclocking/watercooling.

I have narrowed it down to these 3 boards:
1. msi-mag-b560m-mortar-wifi (£130)
2. gigabyte-b560m-aorus-pro-ax (£140)
3. asus-tuf-gaming-b560m-plus-wifi (£140)

they all fit my requirements of wifi, 2.5GBe, usb-c, 2+ usb3. however I have a few questions about this platform:

1. ram gear: its my understanding that the i5 will not be able to run ram faster than 2933MHz in gear 1, but in Digital Foundary's review (3min mark) of this i5 they used the msi mortar and were able to run 3600MHz ram in gear 1, which is why I am inclined to buy this board. the gigabyte ram support list mentions downgrading ram to 2933MHz on non-k cpus. so should I buy the msi just for this reason. as I actually prefer the gigabyte board.
Digital Foundary's review recommended high speed ram but they were able to run it in gear1 somehow.

2.cpu power: only the msi board requires 24pin + 8pin + 4pin for cpu power, the other 2 boards only require 24pin + 8pin power. can someone explain this to me, does this mean the msi board is inferior somehow?

3. uatx vs atx: is the vrm on all 3 boards good enough? other than more ports/usb is there any other reason to consider a full atx board?

cheers everybody!
 
ecologist said:
Hi everybody,
I am building a vr rig (quest2) and chose the i5 11400F (£150). I need advice with selecting the right board and ram. I live in UK, can shop at SCAN/Amazon/Ebuyer/.., my cpu+mobo+ram budget is £400. not interested in overclocking/watercooling.

I have narrowed it down to these 3 boards:
1. msi-mag-b560m-mortar-wifi (£130)
2. gigabyte-b560m-aorus-pro-ax (£140)
3. asus-tuf-gaming-b560m-plus-wifi (£140)

they all fit my requirements of wifi, 2.5GBe, usb-c, 2+ usb3. however I have a few questions about this platform:

1. ram gear: its my understanding that the i5 will not be able to run ram faster than 2933MHz in gear 1, but in Digital Foundary's review (3min mark) of this i5 they used the msi mortar and were able to run 3600MHz ram in gear 1, which is why I am inclined to buy this board. the gigabyte ram support list mentions downgrading ram to 2933MHz on non-k cpus. so should I buy the msi just for this reason. as I actually prefer the gigabyte board.
Digital Foundary's review recommended high speed ram but they were able to run it in gear1 somehow.

2.cpu power: only the msi board requires 24pin + 8pin + 4pin for cpu power, the other 2 boards only require 24pin + 8pin power. can someone explain this to me, does this mean the msi board is inferior somehow?

3. uatx vs atx: is the vrm on all 3 boards good enough? other than more ports/usb is there any other reason to consider a full atx board?

cheers everybody!
Click to expand...
hardware unboxed does a really good dive into B560 motherboard quality


DDR4 3200 is the official spec. But you can overclock RAM for any of the 10 and 11 series CPUs, on B560, H570, and Z590 motherboards.

11 series CPUs have two RAM modes. Gear 1 and Gear 2.

Gear 1 is lower latency and runs 1:1 with your CPU. but much more difficult to raise the RAM speed. To get DDR4 3600 stable in Gear 1, I had to increase the voltage of the "system agent" on the motherboard, to 1.3v.
I was also able to get 1ns/1T command rate stable, as well. Faster speeds than that, were much tougher to do.

Gear 2 is designed for pushing the RAM speeds really high. However, it doesn't run 1:1 with the CPU and the latency is two times lower. If you do GEAR 2, the first thing you should do is try to get 1ns/1T command rate. This will help a lot with the latency. Then push your RAM speed. GEAR 2 is very flexible. So, your RAM will likely be the limitation, before the mobo or CPU.
 
GiGaBiTe said:
The i5-11400F officially supports DDR4-3200 (PC4-25600):
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...1400f-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html

Going any higher than that, YMMV because you're overclocking the IMC on the CPU.
Click to expand...
chameleoneel said:
DDR4 3200 is the official spec. But you can overclock RAM for any of the 10 and 11 series CPUs, on B560, H570, and Z590 motherboards.
Click to expand...
thank you. yes I have decided to stick to 3200mhz.
+1 to Hardware Unboxed's series of videos on z590 b560 boards.

1. the msi mortar has Wifi6E AX210 while the other boards have only Wifi6 AX200. I found that only Wifi6E actually broadcasts over 6GHz, Wifi6 non-E does not (only 2.4 and 5GHz). is this important enough to get the msi over the asus/gigabyte, whats your opinions on Wifi6E vs Wifi6 non-E?

2. Also, the MSI mortar and Gigabyte Aorus both have TPM headers, unlike the Asus TUF. it looks like it may be a requirement to run Windows 11 except for "special Windows builds" From the article: "Installing Windows 11 on a system without TPM enabled will require special approval from Microsoft".
the header is not the actual tpm module though right?

3. I found this £105 asus B560m prime-A it lacks wifi and has only 10Gbps type-c but same vrm as TUF. is it worth saving £35 and going asus over gigabyte?
 
ecologist said:
1. the msi mortar has Wifi6E AX210 while the other boards have only Wifi6 AX200. I found that only Wifi6E actually broadcasts over 6GHz, Wifi6 non-E does not (only 2.4 and 5GHz). is this important enough to get the msi over the asus/gigabyte, whats your opinions on Wifi6E vs Wifi6 non-E?
Click to expand...

https://www.tp-link.com/us/blog/86/what-s-the-difference-between-wifi-6-and-wifi-6e/

According to TP-Link, 6E is an incremental upgrade over 6 and offers a few new features. But both the AP and the connected device must support the same standard to work. If you can think of a reason to want the slightly newer standard from information on that page, you can get the board that has it. A big factor is taking into account your internet connection. The wifi link can be infinitely fast, but will ultimately be limited by the trunk out of your home. If you have potato internet, or even 1 gbit internet, it will be saturated long before your wifi link is. The only benefit it would have is internal network bandwidth being so high that you'd never have to worry about contention among your wifi devices if they communicate with each other.

I personally hate wifi and do everything possible to avoid using it, including hardwiring my house around 20 years ago so I definitely don't have to use it.

ecologist said:
2. Also, the MSI mortar and Gigabyte Aorus both have TPM headers, unlike the Asus TUF. it looks like it may be a requirement to run Windows 11 except for "special Windows builds" From the article: "Installing Windows 11 on a system without TPM enabled will require special approval from Microsoft".
the header is not the actual tpm module though right?
Click to expand...

AMD has fTPM, which is a software TPM implemented in the CPU firmware. Intel has PTT, which is the same thing, but integrated into the motherboard chipset. PTT though is only available on specific Intel platforms, you'd have to check if the 11400F and/or your motherboard supports it. I have a feeling it doesn't, as its one of those features that Intel would only implement on mobile machines or servers.

If the header is present, you can add a hardware TPM module. They're hard to find though, can be very expensive and a PITA to configure.

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=trusted+platform+module&N=8000

I saw a couple of reviews that say you need to provision a TPM for it to work? I've never used a TPM so I have no clue how they work.
 
GiGaBiTe said:
Intel has PTT, which is the same thing, but integrated into the motherboard chipset. PTT though is only available on specific Intel platforms, you'd have to check if the 11400F and/or your motherboard supports it. I have a feeling it doesn't, as its one of those features that Intel would only implement on mobile machines or servers.
Click to expand...
According to intel's ark page the only missing security features are:
Intel® Trusted Execution Technology
Intel® Software Guard Extensions (Intel® SGX)

I can't find refrence to PPT in board manual or intel's page. does it have another name or is it part of the excluded features? The b560 chipset diagram shows Intel ME and Intel Platform Trust Technology included.
 
ecologist said:
According to intel's ark page the only missing security features are:
Intel® Trusted Execution Technology
Intel® Software Guard Extensions (Intel® SGX)

I can't find refrence to PPT in board manual or intel's page. does it have another name or is it part of the excluded features? The b560 chipset diagram shows Intel ME and Intel Platform Trust Technology included.
Click to expand...

Trusted Execution Technology (TXT) requires a TPM to function. SGX is another security technology, but is not related to TPM either.

It'd make sense that TXT is missing because of no TPM, and SGX would be missing because it's already been shown to be exploitable and useless.

Intel Platform Trust Technology is PTT.
 
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