Where are the 8K Monitors?

[elvn]

Thanks, that would make one of the common scenario for me (I often have many sport events on the side monitors at the same time during the playoff season and those streaming site often have a lot of extra ads all around in non fullscreen mode).

The you code and launch an fullscreen 3d window application, being a different issue....

You can do the same thing with that floating window addon that kasakka linked and it will retain the ability to see the scrub timeline thumbnails and right click menu of youtube. I set it to ask me if I wanted a pop out window in an additional firefox instance, or maxed within the existing browser tab each time I hit the maximize button. Within the same tab it operates much like the maximize video addon but retains all of the youtube timeline and right click functionality. If you break the video out into its own frame, it'll open a new lightweight instance of firefox though which I don't prefer vs my windows management softwares and functions which identify by singular app name. It also keeps a title bar in the break out window firefox instances which isn't optimal. However,you could still go another step and hit the firefox built in pop-out icon or hotkey to layer that and resize it right over the top of the extra firefox instance of "floating window" addon, and hotkey toggle back when you want the youtube interface stuff right beneath it.

Edit: on further inspection, the regular picture in picture toggle in firefox also opens new instances that are visible when mousing over the firefox icon on the taskbar or when hitting ctr+alt+Tab menu to swap between windows. The difference is, the floating-window browser addon removes the additional video tabs from my list of tabs in the actual browser list when I open float more than one (youtube tested) video at a time. So the only way to acces those (other than mousing over to and clicking on the video frame directly) is from alt+Tab, ctrl+alt+Tab (persistent tab menu), or making my taskbar visible and hovering over the firefox taskbar icon. I can deal with that though. The main issue is that it keeps the title bar where the default firefox pop out is a full frameless tile.

 

[improwise]

How far away are you sitting from the QN900C?

My entire setup is in a state of disarray currently due to me comparing several monitors side by side. But I always consider PPI rather than screen size so in regards to both the QN900 and the Neo G9 57" that would be the same as a 4K 32". Any additional screen area I treat as a multi monitor setup (without all the hazzle, well, most of it anyway). I am a heavy user of virtual desktops even though using an 8K monitor so I always have a few apps centered on each that would get 80-90% of my attention in a day.

I owned the Samsung CRG9 superultrawide and the LG CX 48" at the same time and always struggled with the CX's height even at 1m viewing distance. I felt that the top 1/4 of the screen was always uncomfortable to use so I used it closer to an ultrawide by just leaving the top portion empty. Otherwise I'd be constantly looking up and down to use e.g browser controls/tabs on top of the window, while that area was not big enough to fit any "secondary" apps you might want to glance occasionally.

This is one of the main perks with 8K, that you basically have a huge canvas that you can form an use anyway you wont. Personally I find 8K to wide and 2k to low, so I mainly use something like 6k3k. Always found the 16:9 format to be ideal. I use PowerToys mainly for this.

I'm still considering the Neo G9 57", if the right price comes up. I was actually looking at it in a store yesterday, right next to the ARK 55" and OLED G9 49". I can agree the viewing angles on the 57" aren't the best, but overall it seemed like the sweet spot between those three displays. The ARK looked low res, the OLED G9 was too small and the 57" was pretty good.

The Neo G9 57" to me is very much WYSIWYG - as long as you know mainly about the 240 hz limitations, there are quite few surprises (at least assuming you get one that is working, my latest one had several dead pixels).

 

[elvn]

I use a stream deck (+ some displayfusion function hotkeys mapped to it) for my windows management:

I have stream deck buttons that will (open the app if not already open) -> min/restore by app button with the app icon on the lcd buttons on multi-press though too, or a generic min/restore window button for whatever the active window is, and a full screen/restore button, full width/restore button toggle, full height/restore button toggle, plus a bunch of saved positions by button etc.

The app icons are in a sub-directory of buttons of of this main page (middle bottom button). Hitting an app icon like outlook mail for example will:
- check to see if the app is already open, if not, then open it and place it in it's pre-defined "home position" I set up in it's script.
. . (you can use simple targeting reticle to capture a window position/co-ordinates after you dragged a window and resized it somewhere while setting up the function the first time).
- If the app, outlook in this case, is already open, check if it's minimized or restored and change it to the opposite state.
. . So I can just hit the button a few times and an app will teleport to it's home position, then min/restore in a cycle each button press.

The front page here shows the generic window positions I teleport whatever the active window is to.
They way I have the single 1/3rd of portrait mode screen heights set up , plus 2/3's of portrait mode screen height window positions allows me to puzzle-piece them together nicely.
The three different screen buttons each teleport the active window to a home position on that particular screen. The left and right ones put the window at the bottom, full width, 66% (2/3) height. The middle OLED button puts the active window 60% width in middle of screen, full height.
Also shown is a generic active window max height/restore toggle, max width restore toggle, full-screen/restore toggle button.
The bottom right corner, one from the right corner, is the global saved windows positions profile that will teleport all of my most used apps to their "home" positions no matter how much I shuffled things around beforehand.
I can drop down a directory using the bottom right corner button and save a few other window position profiles on the fly if I want to as well, then home/dir.up back to that main button page shown here.

However, if you ever end up removing the tab bar on firefox like I outlined, you can use this add-on to replace the Min-Max-Restore buttons as one space saving button with a drop-down to all three buttons. It's pretty neat.


https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/min-max-close-hub/

. . . .

On a 8k screen, I'd probably experiment with a similar type of window layout to that stream deck one, with a central over-under of two 4k spaces as full 4k windows, and then 1920 wide columns on the sides full of windows 1/3 height each or 2/3 height + a 1/3 height window depending what I was doing or lookin at, at any given time.
There would be enough space to try out other configurations too though. Might be able to even fit 4 windows tall on the sides, ~ 1920 x 1080 each, or do a long web page up to 3/4 tall + 1/4 top window.

 

[improwise]

Since this has basically turned into a software thread recently anyway, is there a way to override the location of the quick launch / clock etc in Windows? You can center application icons but not the quick start one (or whatever they are called) which means they are VERY far away on a 8K 65"

 

[kasakka]

Since this has basically turned into a software thread recently anyway, is there a way to override the location of the quick launch / clock etc in Windows? You can center application icons but not the quick start one (or whatever they are called) which means they are VERY far away on a 8K 65"

Maybe try building regions with Displayfusion? You can use it together with MS Powertoys FancyZones.

 

[improwise]

Maybe try building regions with Displayfusion? You can use it together with MS Powertoys FancyZones.

Seems really overkill do use DP just for that. Perhaps there is a mod for WinAero or WinHawk?

 

[elvn]

I realize the whole window management thing isn't 100% on topic, though it's somewhat applicable in talking about large amounts of screen real-estate I guess. That in relation to how worth it 8k as a multi-monitor replacement would be and with what tradeoffs vs multiple 4k screens for example.

Since this has basically turned into a software thread recently anyway, is there a way to override the location of the quick launch / clock etc in Windows? You can center application icons but not the quick start one (or whatever they are called) which means they are VERY far away on a 8K 65"

You mean the taskbar and the windows start menu button? This might not be your kind of things but I love it. Even if it's not for you overall, maybe you could find a few useful things in this writeup:




. . I typically hide my start menu completely (and make it translucent). I use TaskBarHider app and set it to a custom hotkey (Ctrl+Shift + Z in my case). That acts as a show/hide toggle, locking the taskbar away or popping it up (no mouse-over messiness). I still might peep at the taskbar rarely but mostly it stays hidden. No need for it considering these other options below.

. . The only thing I really need the taskbar for anymore is the system tray. If I could find an app that breaks the system tray out of ~ duplicates the system tray to it's own app window I'd love it.

. . For the windows menu, you can just hit the windows key on your keyboard.

. . To launch practically anything (if not on my stream deck) -> you can just hit Winkey + S to pull up search and type one or two letters. The windows search function is very smart now. I usually hit ctrl+S, type a few letters and hit enter. It's on the app I need nearly 100% of the time so I can just hit enter (but puts a few other near hits beneath it if similarly named apps with the same first few letters). I think it also prioritizes by usage of the app or by how many times you win+S launched it. Not sure but it works great. Win+S , a few letters + enter takes like 1 second. It's also great for pulling up windows settings,etc instead of perusing through menus or using the old run menu .msc terms, etc.

. . If you need to swap between apps, I use CTRL + ALT + TAB. That will pop up a persistent ALT-TAB menu that lasts until you activate one of the tiles. Alternately you can use ALT+TAB but that makes the tabbed tiles menu disappear when you release it (activating whatever tile it was on automatically). That can happen accidentally so I prefer the CTRL methods.
If using displayfusion with multiple monitors, you can also set DisplayFusion to only show what app tiles are active on that particular active monitor, which is very handy.

If you are using a stream deck, you can set CTRL + ALT + TAB to it's own stream deck button. Either way (stream deck button or manually pressing ALT+CTRL+TAB) , further presses of that hotkey combo while the persistent tab menu of app tiles is up will cycle the focus between different tabs from left to right. Pressing (or making a button for) CTRL + SHIFT + ALT + TAB will cycle the app tiles in reverse (in a persistent tab tile menu since CTRL is included). So you could make a button for TAB tiling forward, and one for TAB tiling in reverse - then normally you'd hit enter, but you could put a stream deck button right next to the ALT+CTRL+TAB and CTRL+ SHIFT + ALT + TAB buttons that hits enter when you press it to make it quick and easy (keeping your hand on the mouse).

. . Displayfusion does have it's own taskbars that can mimic the windows one, and they also can show the system tray now. So if you hide the main one, you could, like kasakka suggested, probably use displayfusion to manipulate where the displayfusion taskbar or taskbars are, with or without setting up multiple virtual monitor spaces depending. I moved away from using taskbars though.



. . Using a stream deck's buttons, I assign all of my most used apps to an array of stream deck buttons which act as launcher buttons, and once launched, the app buttons act as a minimize and restore to home position I set for the app toggle. So I don't need to access apps from the taskbar at all really for launch/minimize/maximize~restore, etc.

. . Stream deck: You can also set up a few sets of master app launch buttons. Minimum apps used as a master launch button, and most apps used as a master launch button, (or genres like "image editiing apps" , "general browsing" , etc. . ) and it will launch all of the apps you previously assigned to that master app launch function one by one, settting a brief wait time between each launch to keep it from getting messy, keep app launches from stepping on each other's toes. It can also check to see if the app is already open and then skip by it. If you want the genre launchers to close other open apps that aren't in it's function you can have it do that too, or just set a button to close everything first and then hit whatever master launch button.
You can also set up an easy saved window positions profile, which will shuffle all of your commonly open windows back to the last place you saved them to using the displayfusion app. I set that displayfusion hotkey to a stream deck button too so that it's quick and easy with a lcd button showing what it does instead of trying to remember hotkeys.

. . You can use rainmeter or windows widgets if you really need a clock. They also do weather, etc. and can show system resource meters/usage. I'd probably get a small usb monitor, the long short kind, if I needed that stuff visible 100% of the time rather than leaving window space open for it. I use a tablet on a tray on the side for some things at times.


======================

With all of the desktop/app real-estate of an 8k monitor, you could have most of your apps tiled on the desktop already so a taskbar is needed even less really. Same with my triple 4k setup.

I still highly recommend a stream deck. It has some windows management addons built for it too which do some of the same things displayfusion functions do, so you don't necessarily have to use displayfusion with it. DP has some great functions you can tie to it though as well, and you can micro-manage things more.
.

 

[improwise]

I realize the whole window management thing isn't 100% on topic, though it's somewhat applicable in talking about large amounts of screen real-estate I guess. That in relation to how worth it 8k as a multi-monitor replacement would be and with what tradeoffs vs multiple 4k screens for example.

Since I seem to be the only one with an 8K "monitor", I don't really mind

You mean the taskbar and the windows start menu button? This might not be your kind of things but I love it. Even if it's not for you overall, maybe you could find a few useful things in this writeup:

No, System Tray icons based on what it seem to be called in Settings.

WindHaw now contains a fix for those rounded window corners as well which MS force on us a few years ago BTW if anyone wants that. Personally I hate rounded corners and the built in fix in Fanzy zones is only a partial fix. Maybe DisplayFusion has this as well?

 

[elvn]

Since I seem to be the only one with an 8K "monitor", I don't really mind


No, System Tray icons based on what it seem to be called in Settings.

WindHaw now contains a fix for those rounded window corners as well which MS force on us a few years ago BTW if anyone wants that. Personally I hate rounded corners and the built in fix in Fanzy zones is only a partial fix. Maybe DisplayFusion has this as well?

If you mean the system tray by the system clock and by the notifications button... yeah that is real thorn in my side because I don't want to ever have to invoke the taskbar if I can help it. I looked around in hope that some app could clone the system tray but the only thing that does is displayfusion's own taskbars I think. I could probably just stuff a short dispayfusion taskbar somewhere on screen but idk if I can show/hide displayfusion taskbars. I'd have to look into it. I don't want a persistent bar anywhere.

Edit: so far I found that you can set displayfusion taskbars to auto-hide but I don't like the messy mouseover thing. I'll see if there is any hotkey functionality possible, and see how short you can make the taskbar. If I could make a hotkey show/hide toggle mini taskbar that is essentially just the system tray, it could work out for me. I'd rather it be more like an app window I could place anywhere though.

.

 

[improwise]

If you mean the system tray by the system clock and by the notifications button... yeah that is real thorn in my side because I don't want to ever have to invoke the taskbar if I can help it. I looked around in hope that some app could clone the system tray but the only thing that does is displayfusion's own taskbars I think. I could probably just stuff a short dispayfusion taskbar somewhere on screen but idk if I can show/hide displayfusion taskbars. I'd have to look into it. I don't want a persistent bar anywhere.

Edit: so far I found that you can set displayfusion taskbars to auto-hide but I don't like the messy mouseover thing. I'll see if there is any hotkey functionality possible, and see how short you can make the taskbar. If I could make a hotkey show/hide toggle mini taskbar that is essentially just the system tray, it could work out for me. I'd rather it be more like an app window I could place anywhere though.

.

When you finally get an 8K monitor, I think you will find that you can be a bit wasteful and let the task bar be visible all the time

I guess there are other options to display a clock, and perhaps there are other ways to access those features that hides beneath those icons anyway, but I agree that it is frustrating that there just isn't a setting for it, especially since there is one for the main taskbar icons. As I understand it, the times where you could resize / move the tastbar yourself is now also gone? Seems crazy to have to use something like DP just for this.

 

[elvn]

I just got away from using taskbars, especially with my stream deck. Bars are ugly and a waste no matter what size+rez screen. They are like having a bumper sticker on the screen. They were made more for a single limited desktop/app real-estate screen in order to swap apps like pulling up playing cards one at a time (which CTRL+ALT+TAB does even better) . My apps have their own bars already in them much of the time already too, I don't need more bars

Incidentally, you can set displayfusion option to only show what ctrl+alt+tab tiles are active on that particular, currently active (mouse clicked on or otherwise shifted focus to) monitor, and I think even if you set up virtual monitor spaces it should be confined into those if you choose that option. . You can also customize the size the tiles will appear in the tab menu which is really nice.


So far, I set the displayfusion taskbar to custom size, pretty slim. I couldn't find any way to shorten the bar or make it drag-able, but I can move it to the far side of a screen and make it show/hide on mouseover for now. Set it to translucent background in the DP settings too.

If I can find a way to hotkey it with a function in the displayfusion user libraries I'll try that out. I'd rather it just be a smaller bar/window though ultimately. Really though, like I said, I'd rather some app give me all of the hidden system tray icons in a separate window, an app that duplicates them all there. (Then I'd set them all to hidden yet accessible with the hidden drop-out button on the windows taskbar).



The displayfusion taskbar can have the windows key on it or not, the clock, taskbar, notification etc. So you can set it up a-la-carte. Like I said you can also move it to any edge of any screen. I just hide my windows native taskbar using Taskbarhider app (available in the windows store or on github). I set taskbarhider to a custom hotkey (SHIFT+CTRL+Z in my case). That will lock away the windows taskbar instead of using messy mouseover. I'll have to research if I can do similar hotkey for the displayfusion bar's show/hide.

https://www.displayfusion.com/Help/?Version=10.1.2.0#contextmenu-taskbar

You can do a lot with displayfusion but even some of the simplest quality of life stuff (like enabling displayfusion taskbar) is great without digging too far into it. It' can be fun to mess with too though if you have time play with it.

The free winaerotweaker app can do a lot of custom stuff for the windows interface also, automates a lot of registry tweaking stuff (and provides a registry backup).
https://winaero.com/winaero-tweaker/#features

 

[improwise]

One thing that should be noted, that perhaps isn't to surprising, is energy consumption. I am a max brightness kind of guy and let me tell you, sitting in front of a 65" 8K you can feel the burn both in your face and in you wallet I assume. This is to be expected of course, but still, the heat output is real. That said, the now boxed up Neo G9 was at least noticeable hotter to the touch despite being much thicker and also has the well documented issue of popping sounds. For both these monitors, and almost every monitor I guess, is that you just can't make a monitor/TV large, bright and 8K without being power hungry, at least not with current tech. Not sure if MicroLED perhaps can do it. Of course, something like a triple 4K setup probably would consume quite a lot of power as well, so not sure about what the actual difference is here...

 

[elvn]

One thing that should be noted, that perhaps isn't to surprising, is energy consumption. I am a max brightness kind of guy and let me tell you, sitting in front of a 65" 8K you can feel the burn both in your face and in you wallet I assume. This is to be expected of course, but still, the heat output is real. That said, the now boxed up Neo G9 was at least noticeable hotter to the touch despite being much thicker and also has the well documented issue of popping sounds. For both these monitors, and almost every monitor I guess, is that you just can't make a monitor/TV large, bright and 8K without being power hungry, at least not with current tech. Not sure if MicroLED perhaps can do it. Of course, something like a triple 4K setup probably would consume quite a lot of power as well, so not sure about what the actual difference is here...

I used to use metal-hallide lights on a saltwater aquarium. Their ballasts on the floor or a stand were like big ghostbusters traps. 250w each plus heater sticks, etc and a pond pump. Those were really big electric bill years. I got out of that hobby eventually though.

Modern GPUs and surround receivers + 5.1 or 7.1 surround speakers incl a hearty amp can use a lot of power too though. I get a lot of enjoyment out of such things.

Also worth noting, like you said, that a single 8k screen might be reducing a 3 screen multi-monitor array to 1 screen (or 2 depending). Also that you aren't always watching HDR material necessarily just like you aren't necessarily gaming amping up your gpu contstantly either. I also tend to use dark modes even when not on OLEDs whenever possible. As far as face burn goes, I'd mount a 65" screen around 45" to 48" away from me depending on what I was doing, so it filled my central viewing angle without pushing into the sides. At least for media and gaming full screen. Maybe I'd roll closer at times while using one in a multi-monitor-like defined layout like I replied with earlier but prob not nearer than 35" to 40" away, 80deg to 75 deg viewing angle - where up to 15 to 20 deg on each side of the monitor would be outside of my central viewing angle space I assigned. That would still be comfortable slight head/chair turn to the sides in multi-monitor style usage.

The reddit user that posted that over-under G95NC picture I re-posted earlier a few times in this thread did mention the popping etc. and eventually one of his screens started to malfunction. I did notice that he also had the backs of the screens to the heat of a sunny window though too.

MicroLED with hdr4000 and later hdr10,000 are also going to run hot. These screens need to start using thicker, vented housings, full backplane heatink and fans on active cooling profiles imo. But it is what is it for now.

In the far future, svelte XR/MR glasses, once they get much higher resolution and iron out some wrinkles, might be better as perceived brightness is better nearer your eyes, and they could reproject a very small screen if necessary instead of putting the emitters in front of your eyes..

 

[Nobu]

Capacitors popping? Yikes!

 

[elvn]

Capacitors popping? Yikes!

Perhaps ultimately. The actual housings are under stress though and heat and cooling can cause them to expand and contract which can make housings groan and pop. Since one of his super-ultrawide G95NC screens eventually started to malfuction, the internals were likely overheating though, whether capacitors, solder, wiring, or other screen components idk.

I used to keep a big 70" TCL low density FALD LCD screen with it's black back to a picture window years ago and it got a burn in dark spot after a few years. The housing used to creak and pop occasionally throughout the day to night, sun and cloud, ac cycles, etc. I re-arranged my living room for my 77" C1 oled tv. I wasn't going to make that mistake again, let alone with organic emitters vs lifespan/burn down to burn in.

 

[improwise]

It goes over into a Q&A after a few minutes that feel a bit more interesting (at least to me) than watching slow mo tennis balls


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wEsfAGyNME

 

[elvn]

It goes over into a Q&A after a few minutes that feel a bit more interesting (at least to me) than watching slow mo tennis balls


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wEsfAGyNME

He missed hockey. That is a good test with the high contrast and small fast puck, and the white ice can make oleds go dim so would show a big tradeoff.

He also at one point compared the s95c in contrast and color boost mode "since it looks pleasing in brighter room conditions" - which is sort of like using Dynamic tone mapping, it'll push the color volume scale upward and lose detail at the top, clipping. Not really a fair comparison in some of the shots where the other tvs were in regular movie mode using reference HDR curves. It's a youtube video though anyway so meh. Have to listed to what he says more than what you can see on the screen (between his camera, youtube compression, and your own display's capabilities).

 

[improwise]

He missed hockey. That is a good test with the high contrast and small fast puck, and the white ice can make oleds go dim so would show a big tradeoff.

He also at one point compared the s95c in contrast and color boost mode "since it looks pleasing in brighter room conditions" - which is sort of like using Dynamic tone mapping, it'll push the color volume scale upward and lose detail at the top, clipping. Not really a fair comparison in some of the shots where the other tvs were in regular movie mode using reference HDR curves. It's a youtube video though anyway so meh. Have to listed to what he says more than what you can see on the screen (between his camera, youtube compression, and your own display's capabilities).

Watching the World Cup now and watched some NHL before that on my G3 and even as a brightness junkie, I don't really feel I lack brightness and there is no obvious dimming either. Even noticed that brightness was only at 90%. But of course, everything is relative.

 

[elvn]

I'm guessing most sports isn't in HDR, though some uk stuff might be in relative HLG HDR perhaps. Maybe the olympics will be HDR. HDR is where the ABL really kicks in usually, but the white ice in hockey can be pretty bright even in brighter SDR settings. I think ABL doesn't turn off until you go below around 180nit to 240nit peaks typically, depending on the tv.

The 144Hz 4k 55" G4 OLED with it's MLA and brightness levels (though still suffering aggressive ABL in brighter HDR mids and highs scenes) seems nice but 8k has so much desktop/app real estate and higher PPD for a larger screen at a nearer distance than otherwise. If the 900D could combine that with a quality 4k 240hz mode, (and with proper text-sub-sampling, not having to use "best use" oled burn in avoidance practices, etc) - it could be appealing to me in the long run. As I said a few times in the thread, a 8k 1000R ark type release with some of the 900D tech would be great, but that's just daydreaming. The G95NC is too short vs the curvature and in general for my taste, and the AG coating and a few other tradeoffs aren't very appealing to me either.

 

[kasakka]

Perhaps ultimately. The actual housings are under stress though and heat and cooling can cause them to expand and contract which can make housings groan and pop. Since one of his super-ultrawide G95NC screens eventually started to malfuction, the internals were likely overheating though, whether capacitors, solder, wiring, or other screen components idk.

Even the Samsung CRG9 would do that and it doesn't have things like FALD backlights. I think it's the LCD being forced into a curved format and requiring a lot of rigidity that makes its plastic behave like that.

 

[elvn]

Even the Samsung CRG9 would do that and it doesn't have things like FALD backlights. I think it's the LCD being forced into a curved format and requiring a lot of rigidity that makes its plastic behave like that.

Right but heat/cooling expands and contracts things too. My old 70" vizio popped from sunlight on the black back of the housing heating it up and down to cooling regularly. The compressed curved housing in those screens probably isn't helping though like you said. The guy I was talking about had a g95nc right on top of another one, plus the backs of the screens were to a big window of sunlight. Double screen heat rising upward + the sun on the backs of the screens. I wonder if it was his top screen that malfunctioned considering heat rises.

 

[elvn]

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